727 shifts early

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spinman_1949

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So my !969 Dart 340 GTS. 340 is running a solid cam. So far it looks like a 480 lift. Very low vacuum at idle. Like 6 inches. Running pretty good. Initial at 22 total 34.

What I notice is that even if I come off the line at WOT or WOT soon after the trans shifts out of first way too soon. Like maybe 20 MPH. Shifts out of second too soon as well. Like 50 tops. So my question is where do look? I have already adjusted the kickdown linkage as far as I dare go. Does not seem to have much effect. The kickdown is also non existent unless speed is very slow.

Ideas and thoughts? Oh and it is a 727.
 
Kickdown adjustment on Torqueflites is pretty critical. It's all mechanical and the cam and lack of vacuum won't effect it. A aftermarket carb and/or intake will make a difference because it screws with the linkage length. You need to lengthen one of the rods so the linkage has more throw. You can also get a cable set up from makers like Lokar. tmm
 
I have it adjusted so at WOT the lever on the trans is maxed. It has a holley 670 aveneger and it has the special kickdown arm that holley offers for mopar.
 
Are you sure you're getting WOT when you floor the pedal? If not, all the adjusting of the kickdown won't matter.
 
spinman1949 said:
I have it adjusted so at WOT the lever on the trans is maxed. It has a holley 670 aveneger and it has the special kickdown arm that holley offers for mopar.
Click to expand...

is it maxed at the trans or just the rod?

try disconnecting it from carb and adjust it at the trans full on all the time. take it for a drive and see if that makes a difference.
 
Rocky_JS said:
is it maxed at the trans or just the rod?

try disconnecting it from carb and adjust it at the trans full on all the time. take it for a drive and see if that makes a difference.
Click to expand...

That is a good question. I just spent hours this weekend heating and bending the shift linkage rod and the linkage to got it to work smoothly. I will have to jack the car up and take a closer look. But what I can tell you is that with the lever diconnected from the carb I can push it until it feels like the lever on the trans is maxed. I will also check to make sure I am getting WOT from the pedal.
 
I guess I missed asking the question, did you do anything to the car or did this just start happening out of the blue?
 
OK the throttle linkage was likely not getting quite full throttle. The former owner put in some sound deadening and some thick carper. So I have now confirmed I have WOT. And at WOT the linkage to the trans is maxed as far as I can tell right now. I will take it out for a test tomorrow. I have no signals at present. Bad flasher.
 
Won't make a difference unfortunatly, as the TP linkage is not capable of the changes you need.
TF' are notorious for "Lazy shifts"
See the article in the link I posted.

The last half of it applies to your issue.
 
TrailBeast said:
You need to take some weight of the governor valve, or increase the counter spring pressure.
Look it up, it's not hard to do.

Here's an article about it.
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...ft_speeds_on_the_727_torqueflite/viewall.html

I have an easy mod to the kickdown lever that works well except for WOT.
It is mostly for low and midrange shifts, so the governor mod is what you need.
Click to expand...

I think you may be right about the governor. I will read the article and see how that works. I need to replace the speedo gear anyway so I will be under it anyway. Oh and how about the what I think are nylon bushings in the shift linkage. I have the console shifter working much better, but there is still some play at the top and bottom of the shifts lever. Can you order those?

Oh and re the mod for mid throttle shifts. I would be interested in what you do.
 
spinman1949 said:
I have it adjusted so at WOT the lever on the trans is maxed. It has a holley 670 aveneger and it has the special kickdown arm that holley offers for mopar.
Click to expand...

The adapter just gives the linkage a place to hook to. I'm sure you're not getting full travel. If I change from the stock AFB to a Edelbrock carb on my 66 Dart I have to re adjust the throttle cable to get full throttle. Anytime you change anything you may have to modify the linkage to make it work properly. tmm
 
Let's see,,,,,
If you do the governor then you won't need the midrange mod because the governor mods will take over all of that function.
I have no shiftkit in mine and it'll plant you back in the seat on the 1-2 shift at about 40mph at WOT.
My 2-3 shift happens at about 75mph at WOT, but I made internal mods to the separator plate and line pressure adjustment on the valve body.
If you do the governor then you can back off on the TP rod to make the shifts earlier if needed.

Keep in mind though, that the governor mod is only going to affect shift timing and not firmness, as line pressure and flow volume is responsible for firmness of clutch and band engagement.
With the power you are running the line pressure will need to be adressed so I would have to recommend a stage 2 shift kit first if you don't have one in it now.
You need to get the volume of fluid flow and it's pressure up first and see how that works for you first, then mod the governor to set your rpm vs shift points otherwise I have a feeling the power you have may cause slippage and fry the trans.

My mods consisted of drilling the separator plate to allow more volume and increasing the line pressure to increase speed of application and the ability to hold and not slip. (but I didn't care about WOT shift points like you asked about in your original post.)
I was more after low and midrange shift firmness with a bit of shift delay.
As a result I ended up with a nice firm 1-2 shift at about 25mph and a 2-3 at about 40 under normal around town throttle and will NOT go into third at anything under 30 even with my foot off the gas.

Again, my midrange mod alone will not change your WOT shift points at all.
The TP rod is only capable of changing it till it's at full adjustment as you found out.
Line pressure, flow volume and governor mods is what will give you what you want.
The shiftkit will take care of the volume and pressure issues and the governor changes will be responsible for the timing of the shifts compared to RPM's

Oh, I don't know about the availability of the bushings right off the top of my head for a console unit, sorry.




spinman1949 said:
I think you may be right about the governor. I will read the article and see how that works. I need to replace the speedo gear anyway so I will be under it anyway. Oh and how about the what I think are nylon bushings in the shift linkage. I have the console shifter working much better, but there is still some play at the top and bottom of the shifts lever. Can you order those?

Oh and re the mod for mid throttle shifts. I would be interested in what you do.
Click to expand...
 
Crawl under the car & disconnect the TP lever from the linkage.

Push the lever on the transmission to the maximum travel, the WOT position. Secure it in that position with some tie wire, and take the car around the block before you decide that it is not the problem.

B
 
The shifts will be way later and firmer at lighter throttle, but it won't change the WOT shift points one bit because the governor will control them.


bohica2xo said:
Crawl under the car & disconnect the TP lever from the linkage.

Push the lever on the transmission to the maximum travel, the WOT position. Secure it in that position with some tie wire, and take the car around the block before you decide that it is not the problem.

B
Click to expand...
 
Trailbeast,

Right now with the adjustments I made it is kicking down earlier. At least it holds first gear under WOT until around 4200. Not nearly where it needs to be, but the sucker has some serious pull. I think the govenor change will do the trick. Maybe to be a bit conservative I will look for one that shifts around 5500. The next thing I need to tackle is oil pressure. It starts out when it is cold just fine, but the longer I drive the lower it gets. The last cruise resulted in it only showing around 25 lbs at 3000 RPM. I do not want to even tell you how low it is at idle. I am hoping part of it is the electric guage. I bought a mechanical one I will put in this week. Gonna put in 20 / 50 and a new filter as well. But I suspect a new oil pump and shaft is in my future.
 
You really might want to run Valvoline 50wt racing oil.
If the guage isn't lying that is.

spinman1949 said:
Trailbeast,

Right now with the adjustments I made it is kicking down earlier. At least it holds first gear under WOT until around 4200. Not nearly where it needs to be, but the sucker has some serious pull. I think the govenor change will do the trick. Maybe to be a bit conservative I will look for one that shifts around 5500. The next thing I need to tackle is oil pressure. It starts out when it is cold just fine, but the longer I drive the lower it gets. The last cruise resulted in it only showing around 25 lbs at 3000 RPM. I do not want to even tell you how low it is at idle. I am hoping part of it is the electric guage. I bought a mechanical one I will put in this week. Gonna put in 20 / 50 and a new filter as well. But I suspect a new oil pump and shaft is in my future.
Click to expand...
 
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