73 Duster build named Fred

[rumblefish360]

How come you prefer the hypereutectic over a forged piston for a street/strip deal?

A Hyper is lighter, tighter fitting and quieter as well as plenty durable on the street or strip. They have no issues running in the 9’s. The draw backs are known on these pistons. I don’t go near there issues.

I do not use N02 or supercharge my engines.

Which crank is a forged unit? The stock crank?

I’m not understanding this.

 

[-Boosted-]

Stroker build or not, if it’s not a race car only then it would be for me a hyper-U piston and a dyno session to determine the engines out out in order to help with a converter choice for what ever trans you to with. I’d do the 727 since it’s in your hands. No sense not to use it and spend more money on a core 904.

Crank is a forged unit. I’d run forged aftermarket 4340 rods.
Flat top Hypers.

You said "Crank is a forged unit".

I was asking which crank are you talking about?

 

[rumblefish360]

The crank i’d use be it a stock stroke or stroker crank would be forged

 

[rumblefish360]

The way I’m seeing your thoughts written out here is that you’re not going to put together a slouch by any means. You want to make a very powerful engine. If such is the case, use a forged crank.

If you’re building a stock engine to a medium power engine, let’s label that under 550 hp, a cast crank can do the job fine.

I go with the hyper slugs because they’re lighter, tighter, hold up just fine and cost less than a forged piston.

If your going balls to the wall, get a forged slug.

 

[diymirage]

My opinions only, $300 is a good deal for a complete 360/727 but how much of it are you going to use? Stoker means all you’re using is the block. Unless you choke it with stock cast heads and you shouldn’t. But you still get the 727 so there’s that. But, there’s always a but, I wouldn’t put a 727 in a street small block car. I’d use a 904 all day long and twice on Sunday. So from that deal I’d use the block. Is that worth $300?

when i had my 408 build i simply didnt want to spend the money on aluminum heads
with the stock iron heads (a little ported, a little blended and 2.02 valves) im making 420 hp and 470 lbs of torque

now, you and i both know the heads are what are keeping me from breaking 500 pounds (probably heads and cam to break 500 hp) but if i wanted to spend the money on a set of aluminum heads, i could do it with the engine in the car, and do it in an afternoon in my driveway

so that is just one reason for starting out a 408 with stock heads

 

[rumblefish360]

A set of well ported aluminum heads will gain you that missing 30 ft. Lbs.

 

[Ironracer]

Not if you plan to drive it on the street. I (stupidly ) passed on a 68 charger with 440 because it had a reverse manual valve body 727 back in 1992. It would have been cake to switch it back to a regular automatic. All because I didn't want to mess with shifting an automatic on the street as a daily driver, and bought a 72 or 73 318 scamp instead. That scamp was a great daily driver though.

Those are going for MAD coin these days... my friend that owns cars for the Stars just paid 28 grand for one that needs a total Restoration, even had some rot on it. And it's not even a numbers matching car.

 

[mopar65]

I already have a set of ductile iron rocker arms and didn't want to fork over another $$$ for the ones required for the TF heads. Also, I don't want to run roller tip rocker arms. I am doing all I can to minimize the number of moving parts as well as reduce reciprocating mass. From all I've seen, the TF heads flow better, pretty close though. I'm quite happy with losing 50 lbs and gaining about one point of compression with aluminum.

You don't have to use the high dollar $$$ rocker arms to use the TF heads. I am useing the PRW 1.6 rockers on my TF heads

 

[TT5.9mag]

when i had my 408 build i simply didnt want to spend the money on aluminum heads
with the stock iron heads (a little ported, a little blended and 2.02 valves) im making 420 hp and 470 lbs of torque

now, you and i both know the heads are what are keeping me from breaking 500 pounds (probably heads and cam to break 500 hp) but if i wanted to spend the money on a set of aluminum heads, i could do it with the engine in the car, and do it in an afternoon in my driveway

so that is just one reason for starting out a 408 with stock heads

I don’t disagree with you, but I’d bet in todays world you’d have a hard time finding anyone that wants to grind on factory cast heads, and put the money in to seat and guide work only to be more than halfway ($$$$ wise) to a set of aluminum heads. Also 420hp and 470lb/ft says to me your engine wants much more head than it has to rpm and make the power it should be making. It seems to me through this thread we’ve discovered the OPs goals and in my opinion he’s past what a stock head will do.

 

[pittsburghracer]

In this day and age when you can make more horsepower than that with a lousy Speedmaster head why wouldn’t you. Lol

 

[Ottmundr]

In this day and age when you can make more horsepower than that with a lousy Speedmaster head why wouldn’t you. Lol

Speed master heads are within the budget of a kid working at O'Reilly's. Even if that kid is a @RustyRatRod in his 50's. And even if that kid is wasting his time with straight cut timing gears and a cam button rather than helical cut timing gears cut to keep the cam in place without said cam button on a /6.

 

[diymirage]

I don’t disagree with you, but I’d bet in todays world you’d have a hard time finding anyone that wants to grind on factory cast heads, and put the money in to seat and guide work only to be more than halfway ($$$$ wise) to a set of aluminum heads. Also 420hp and 470lb/ft says to me your engine wants much more head than it has to rpm and make the power it should be making. It seems to me through this thread we’ve discovered the OPs goals and in my opinion he’s past what a stock head will do.

well lets see, it was probably between 8-10 years since i had it done, so im sure that played a part
and you're right, i reused several parts that i know left horsepower on the table

for instance, when i switched over from a /6 to a 360 i bought the biggest cam that would play nice with the stock torque converter
(which of course, isnt very big)

then i spun a rod bearing and had the engine rebuild as a 408, stock heads, that same cam
ideal?
absolutely not

ideal for my budget at the time?
heck yes


would i do it again today?
no, but things change, and it was the right thing to do then

now, they only reason i brought this up, is because the question was asked "is $300.00 worth it for a 360/727 that i intend to build a perfomance 408 out of"
and my awnser to that question was simply that a stock iron headed 408 is STILL a 408
and it leaves room for improvement as future budgets allow

im not telling the OP or anyone else what to do, im simply sharing what i did

 

[mgoblue9798]

Who's the go to for full blown porting on RPM heads?

You are getting advice from one of the best in Pittsburghracer.

 

[-Boosted-]

You are getting advice from one of the best in Pittsburghracer.

Yep but he slammed at the moment, lol. I think I’m gonna wait until he has time to work on my heads.

 

[rumblefish360]

Wait time is wait time and unless you needed it yesterday….
It’s worth the wait.

The truth behind the iron head is it can be ported out enough to make some reallllllly good power. That is if you know what you’re doing. That means porting it yourself and taking the time to do it well. That’s when an iron head is cheaper.

@IQ52

 

[-Boosted-]

Wait time is wait time and unless you needed it yesterday….
It’s worth the wait.

The truth behind the iron head is it can be ported out enough to make some reallllllly good power. That is if you know what you’re doing. That means porting it yourself and taking the time to do it well. That’s when an iron head is cheaper.

@IQ52

No plans to run an iron head. Already got a set of used RPM’s that I’ll send out unless I find a set of TFS’s somewhere.

 

[rumblefish360]

That’s understood. It’s about wait times not the material of the head.

 

[-Boosted-]

That’s understood. It’s about wait times not the material of the head.

Yeah, wait times for just about everything sucks these days which is why I plan to run the car with a mild RPM headed 360 until the stroker or high compression roller cammed engine is ready. I just need to decide which way I will go and get the parts ordered so I can start the wait. lol

 

[rumblefish360]

Well, contact the head porter and ask questions. That’s where you start with the heads. I called today for a crank I have that needs to be addressed. Dropping that puppy off on Monday.

 

[pittsburghracer]

Well, contact the head porter and ask questions. That’s where you start with the heads. I called today for a crank I have that needs to be addressed. Dropping that puppy off on Monday.

That’s why I pointed him toward Rod and Vic. They can cnc a set way faster than I can hand port a set. I’ve never seen a set being done but I’m guessing you set up the program, bolt the head down, and go do something else while it does its thing.

 

[-Boosted-]

That’s why I pointed him toward Rod and Vic. They can cnc a set way faster than I can hand port a set. I’ve never seen a set being done but I’m guessing you set up the program, bolt the head down, and go do something else while it does its thing.

Sent him a message.

 

[rumblefish360]

That’s why I pointed him toward Rod and Vic. They can cnc a set way faster than I can hand port a set. I’ve never seen a set being done but I’m guessing you set up the program, bolt the head down, and go do something else while it does its thing.

Is short…. LOL, yea. Search it on YouTube. It’s a pretty cool process to see done. After getting the part set up where it needs to be, that machine does it’s thing and it’s pretty cool to watch it.

 

[PROSTOCKTOM]

Tom, just curious if you do the 426 kits? Although i think i might still just go 390

When you use the 4.125" stroke crank you have to buy custom ordered pistons from what I am told and those are $1800 a set and up now.

Then there is the issue of having enough head to feed the engine cost effectively.

If you stay in the 408" range you have lots of off-the-shelf piston choices.

Still if you want a 4.125" stroke crank engine I'll get you setup with the components it takes.

Please send me a PM if you want to inquire further.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[duster426ci]

I'm running a stroked 340 (419) with a 727 trans and totally agree with some of the guys on here about running an aluminum head. With a 408 cu in motor you have to consider this is basically a big block. Stock heads ports will be way to small for the air that the bottom end will be wanting. I have Hughes Edelbrock heads with 2.08 intake, stage 3 porting and the car runs the quickest ET's when the car is shifted between 5800-6000 rpms. I'm running a Hughes flat tappet cam STL6468AS with 1.6 Hughes lifters with 264 deg duration on intake and .660" of lift, 13.0-1 compression. If I set the shift points at 6200 rpm the car runs slower. The head ports are still not big enough if your looking for higher rpm's. I am not, I always shifted my car at 5800 - 6000 rpm's and I get over 10 years on a motor easily, then I rebuild them to rebuild them. Use a good race oil. Driven GP1 or Brad Penn. Got my stroker set up from Ohio Crankshaft, Scat crank, Diamond pistons, Scat H-beam rods and Clevite bearings. I foot brake the car, no tranny brake. Regarding the transmission 727 is the way to go for durability, I always use Borg Warner clutches, over 20 years of racing with a mild motor on one transmission and currently have 7 years on the full race transmission that's in the car now. Going low budget is not always the way to go. Build it right the first time with quality parts and have years of happiness. I race with guys with 408's in the a body cars running a 904 to gain ET and most of them have to rebuild them once a year, because they are starting to slip at the end of the race season (car running 7.0 or faster in the 1/8 mile).

 

[Rat Bastid]

I'm running a stroked 340 (419) with a 727 trans and totally agree with some of the guys on here about running an aluminum head. With a 408 cu in motor you have to consider this is basically a big block. Stock heads ports will be way to small for the air that the bottom end will be wanting. I have Hughes Edelbrock heads with 2.08 intake, stage 3 porting and the car runs the quickest ET's when the car is shifted between 5800-6000 rpms. I'm running a Hughes flat tappet cam STL6468AS with 1.6 Hughes lifters with 264 deg duration on intake and .660" of lift, 13.0-1 compression. If I set the shift points at 6200 rpm the car runs slower. The head ports are still not big enough if your looking for higher rpm's. I am not, I always shifted my car at 5800 - 6000 rpm's and I get over 10 years on a motor easily, then I rebuild them to rebuild them. Use a good race oil. Driven GP1 or Brad Penn. Got my stroker set up from Ohio Crankshaft, Scat crank, Diamond pistons, Scat H-beam rods and Clevite bearings.

At that shift RPM you are probably making peak power 400-600 RPM below that. If 200 RPM more slows it down, you have your shift point about exactly right.