74 Dart now riding and handling great

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California Dart

California Dart

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Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
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Location
Oceanside, California
Well thanks to all your ideas when I asked how to make my 74 Dart drive and handle better, now it does.
Rebuilt the front end, Hotchkis rear leafs, PST 1.08 torsion bars, front and rear sway bars, Bilstein shocks.
Took this out for the first time today and this thing drives and handles like a brand new car. Turns corners like it's stuck to the ground. If anyone was debating on whether or not to do this to your car then debate no more, do it!

VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: The rear torsion bar mounts MUST be re-enforced when using a stiff or 1 inch+ bar to assure that the welds on the rear mount socket don't twist and break away from the frame (like mine did). Factory welds are NOT strong enough to use bigger firmer bars.
 
74Dusted said:
Torsion bar snapped in half.
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X2 on broken torsion bar. I've seen the factory bars snap and those were made of higher quality steel than anything the aftermarket offers new.
 
Thats great to hear. My son is doing the Hotckis system front and rear on his 72 Samp, can't wait to see how it handles.
 
Man glad to hear as i have been waiting to finish my car and as i have done the same thing
i run the 1.030 torsion bars magnum force tubular upper control arm and the largest aftermarket sway bar i could find.And since i just litter lay drove it home from the body shop behind my house after getting my windshield put in.My drive home with front seat no bolted in was like giving a crack ***** crack to hold and tell her she can hold it but not use it.Needless to say I drove slow and had to fight the urge to rap the throttle
.But i can now put i together and wash it.OH YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
71beater said:
Torsion bar socket in trans crossmember broke out and needs to be rewelded and reinforced...
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Yep. thats what happend. Exactly why I swear by this site. Hit a speed bump and whap, the rear torsion bar support snapped! I have it at the garage and the dude is going to try and weld it. I guess these 1 inch bars really put a ton of tension on the stock supports. The 1.08 bars are coming out and I'm switching to the Just suspension bars. Those bars ripped that socket out of there like it was plastic.

NOTE: If anybody goes with larger bars you need to know that the factory weld is pretty much a joke and will NOT handle the stress of the bigger bars. I have a custom welder repairing it and re-enforcing those mounts so it never happens again. Pretty much anyone with a welder can do the same on their own.
 
Truth be told, it probably would have happened soon anyway.
Just sped up the process, I'd imagine.
But certainly the heavier bars are going to apply more load there...
Even just cranking your ride height up will work it harder.
It wouldn't stop me me from doing what you did with your car...just something we need to be aware of, sometimes it's rust, sometimes not enough weld and it fatigues.
 
Good points. I'll see if I can get some pictures showing the weakness of the original design. Back then, bouncing like a boat was acceptable and caused far less stress on this original design. But if I ever hear of someone installing bigger torsions I will tell them what they need to do to make it last.
In the end this car will handle as well as most modern cars and better in most cases. Already was handling better than my wifes Civic. and riding better too.
 
California Dart said:
Good points. I'll see if I can get some pictures showing the weakness of the original design. Back then, bouncing like a boat was acceptable and caused far less stress on this original design. But if I ever hear of someone installing bigger torsions I will tell them what they need to do to make it last.
In the end this car will handle as well as most modern cars and better in most cases. Already was handling better than my wifes Civic. and riding better too.
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This is awesome to hear it handles that well. I just put Just Suspension 1" bars in my '70 Duster but it isn't quite ready to run yet. I didn't know about the bar mount weakness issue until now so I guess I'll just take it easy until I can take them back out and weld the mounts up.
 
Thanks for letting us know about a potential weak spot! I actually made a suggestion in this thread http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=165703 about a tubular torsion bar crossmember, which I think would be significantly stronger and make the car a whole lot stiffer. I am looking forward to see if it is possible! Would you guys be willing to drill out some spotwelds and weld a better peice like that in if it was made available?
 
California Dart said:
Yep. thats what happend. Exactly why I swear by this site. Hit a speed bump and whap, the rear torsion bar support snapped! I have it at the garage and the dude is going to try and weld it. I guess these 1 inch bars really put a ton of tension on the stock supports. The 1.08 bars are coming out and I'm switching to the Just suspension bars. Those bars ripped that socket out of there like it was plastic.

NOTE: If anybody goes with larger bars you need to know that the factory weld is pretty much a joke and will NOT handle the stress of the bigger bars. I have a custom welder repairing it and re-enforcing those mounts so it never happens again. Pretty much anyone with a welder can do the same on their own.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I haven't actually heard of that happening before, at least not with a car that was in good shape (no rust). I do know that the old Mopar racing kits that were out there to "clock" your torsion bar anchors back in the day included re-enforcing plates, but those were for 1.25" bars.

I'll have to take a look at my Dart and compare the construction of the cross member and anchors to my Challenger. I've been running 1.12" bars in my Challenger for the last 20k miles or so without any breakage issues. Maybe you had a flawed anchor weld from the factory?

71beater said:
Truth be told, it probably would have happened soon anyway.
Just sped up the process, I'd imagine.
But certainly the heavier bars are going to apply more load there...
Even just cranking your ride height up will work it harder.
It wouldn't stop me me from doing what you did with your car...just something we need to be aware of, sometimes it's rust, sometimes not enough weld and it fatigues.
Click to expand...

Upping the size of the torsion bars will increase the load. BUT- increasing the ride height WILL NOT. Raising the ride height of the car does not effect the spring rate in any way. All it does is change the angle of the LCA with respect to the torsion bar. The spring rate remains exactly the same. Any ride quality issues that come from raising or lowering the car with the torsion bar adjusters are related mainly to 2 things-1. changes in the alignment (the car has to be realigned after any height changes) or 2. Changes in the amount of suspension travel (usually caused by the suspension bottoming out from too little travel on a lowered car). This last one is also not because the spring rate changes, the lowered car just has less travel available travel.
 
To the contrary....
Yes, your spring rate remains the same, but you are now using more of that spring.
More preload is going to equal more load on the suspension.
Not sitting static, but when you hit anything hard enough to bottom it.
Light bumps will work it the same, with no increase, but at bottom you will see increased load because you will be using more of said spring...
 
71beater said:
Torsion bar socket in trans crossmember broke out and needs to be rewelded and reinforced...
Click to expand...
that's what happened to my Scamp (in fact, I believe my first post on FABO was about fixing it lol). That was purely a rust issue, and when it broke, it made a noise but didn't drop.
The drop came a couple hours later.


edit- California Dart, did you use polyurethane(or the like) bushings in you rebuild, or stick with OEM type?
 
Take a look at my latest post today for the damage it did (Torsion Bar Damage). There was no rust around that area. In fact this car has hardly any rust at all. I hit a speed bump doing about 15 or so to see how it would react and BAM!
The torsion bars do not have to come out in order to re-enforce that area. What it needs is small plates next to the rear sockets with more weld around it. I have an off road welder making a boxed in piece for both sides just to be sure.
 
71beater said:
Torsion bar socket in trans crossmember broke out and needs to be rewelded and reinforced...
Click to expand...

Most likely scenario- the crossmember and socket have parted ways. ART makes a kit to reinforce that crossmember area
 
71beater said:
To the contrary....
Yes, your spring rate remains the same, but you are now using more of that spring.
More preload is going to equal more load on the suspension.
Not sitting static, but when you hit anything hard enough to bottom it.
Light bumps will work it the same, with no increase, but at bottom you will see increased load because you will be using more of said spring...
Click to expand...

The load only increases in that case if you actually use more of that suspension travel. If you weren't using all of the suspension travel before you raise the car up, then, you haven't increased the load any at all.
 
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