79 360 cam selection

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art25

art25

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Hi guys, i couldnt resist a spare 360 for $150, downside is its a low compression slug.

Good news is its ony got 50,000 on it. i wanna see what the best it will do at the track without major modifications. I'm gonna do a home porting and gasket matching job on the heads, a set of headers and a seven fifty holley on an air gap manifold. probably mill the heads down a bit to. Basically a junkyard race motor. I was thinking on using a high torque truck cam instead of a high hp cam to try to do it all on the bottom end. Any suggestions for a cam or ideas? Thanks
 
mill the heads, or if the budget allows...buy some new heads with smaller chambers-RHS LA-X
On the cam, well thats gonna get 20 diff answers, one will be the comp 268* hyd cam, another could be the the comp solid 268/274* .488/.501 lift 110cl 230/236*@.050, you'd need adjustable rockers with the solid, those can be cheap or expensive depending on the style/brand, but easily had.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-20-233-4/
 
i'm probably gonna go hydraulic just cause this is sort of an experiment on just what i can squeeze out of it in mostly stock form. Whats the specs on that one. also i found these heads. http://www.aeroheadracing.com/id6.html supposedly as good as the x heads. what do you think? standard volume intake ports or should i go with the the bigger ports?
 
art25 said:
i'm probably gonna go hydraulic just cause this is sort of an experiment on just what i can squeeze out of it in mostly stock form. Whats the specs on that one. also i found these heads. http://www.aeroheadracing.com/id6.html supposedly as good as the x heads. what do you think? standard volume intake ports or should i go with the the bigger ports?
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http://www.atlanticspeed.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=6596&idcategory=182

for this kind mod, I'd say stock or mildly ported factory iron would do fine.
 
Leave it a low compression slug and slap a turbo on it.
 
art25 said:
Hi guys, i couldnt resist a spare 360 for $150, downside is its a low compression slug.

Good news is its ony got 50,000 on it. i wanna see what the best it will do at the track without major modifications. I'm gonna do a home porting and gasket matching job on the heads, a set of headers and a seven fifty holley on an air gap manifold. probably mill the heads down a bit to. Basically a junkyard race motor. I was thinking on using a high torque truck cam instead of a high hp cam to try to do it all on the bottom end. Any suggestions for a cam or ideas? Thanks
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I'm going to assume, this is going to be a "On the cheap engine build" and will use mostly what ya got kind of stuff?

You could cam it high and then spend some on a converter, gear and suspension to get'er to go.

art25 said:
i'm probably gonna go hydraulic just cause this is sort of an experiment on just what i can squeeze out of it in mostly stock form. Whats the specs on that one. also i found these heads. http://www.aeroheadracing.com/id6.html supposedly as good as the x heads. what do you think? standard volume intake ports or should i go with the the bigger ports?
Click to expand...

I wold stay with a Hyd. cam just to keep it cheap and easy.

Bowl port the heads you have and gasket match the ports. Your done. Installing 2.02's may or may not help depending on the final configuration. For this target, I have zero details of the car or wallet depth.
 
Me 2. Building with what ya got on the cheap. Many will be surprise just how far you can go with stock parets or with a little shoping around, some extra performance can be found cheaply.
 
Thats the whole goal here, to see exactly what we can get this thing to do cheap. My money is going into the numbers 340 i have for the car, so while that gets built i have a stock 360 in the car to drive now, and i have the one we are currently talking about. For rumblefish, to get a better feel for the car, its a 73 dart sport 340. has a 727 to a posi 8 1/4 with 3.21 gears (so the tag says on the rear) with 26 inch tall mickey t's out back. weighs in about 3200 with me in it. running msd ignition. Another goal here is to stomp on my one friends mustang and my other friends evo with basically junkyard motor....... so i think you can see the importance lol. by the way rumblefish did you have a shop up near rt17?

almost forgot, has a stock converter at the moment. we can go bigger if need be
 
art25 said:
Thats the whole goal here, to see exactly what we can get this thing to do cheap. My money is going into the numbers 340 i have for the car, so while that gets built i have a stock 360 in the car to drive now, and i have the one we are currently talking about. For rumblefish, to get a better feel for the car, its a 73 dart sport 340. has a 727 to a posi 8 1/4 with 3.21 gears (so the tag says on the rear) with 26 inch tall mickey t's out back. weighs in about 3200 with me in it. running msd ignition. Another goal here is to stomp on my one friends mustang and my other friends evo with basically junkyard motor....... so i think you can see the importance lol. by the way rumblefish did you have a shop up near rt17?

almost forgot, has a stock converter at the moment. we can go bigger if need be
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No, I never lived in Jersey, but have broken down on Rt 17 half a dozen times easy. I have family in the area.

Back street racer without concern for the future of it since a 340 is coming?

Ya wanna try something weird? Cheap?

Mill the heads down a good bit with the pocket porting and valve work done. (Back cut valves with race prep'd angles under them.)
Use Rhoades lifters on a XE275HL ( http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=631&sb=2 )

The gears are a difficult issue to work around. The Stang has an advantage with it being F.I., computer comtolled, roller cam'd and better gear multiplcation through the trans.

You bennifit is lighter weight (Through a basic diet, even better for sure) and a stronger and bigger engine. More cubes via stroke, same bore size as the Ford.

Your engine is going to out torque his. The Rhoades lifters will "Trick" the engine into thinking/acting like the cam is smaller until about 3,000 rpm's when the lifters pump up. The cam really begins to sing around that RPM and the car should really pick up well.


On your rear leaf springs, cut the rear clamps off and clamp down on the front segment. Loose the front bumper and lie about it, put it on later. Theres a lot of wieght up front on those things. Battery to the back unless your restoring it.

Are you useing the 727 behind the 360?
Stock Converter?
You'll need a B&M flex plate to work with the internal balance converter and external balnced engine.
If the 340's 727 stock converter is used, it should be a high stall unit, stalling around 2500 or IIRC. That'll work fine.
 
i'm gonna give that a try i like weird things like that. i am using the 727 behind the 360, and the converter that came attached to it. bone stocker. battery is in the back already, i was actually thinking one of the race bumpers if i can find one that looks chrome. cant wait to get this stuff together!!

also i'll be keeping a list of what the total cost when its done and the drag times it puts down compared to the stock motor i'll run as a basline
 
OK, you'll need the B&M flex plate designed to mate a external balanced engine to a internal balanced torque converter.

A inexpensive shift kit from Trans-Go would be a good move IMO and it can be used later.

Fiberglass bumpers are cheap enuff. I have seen people take there time with chrome paint with decent results. It is possible to get the fiberglass bumpers to someone for a nice finish. Look for light weight brackets and ditch the inner steel.

On the carb, use a K&N extreme set up, flow through top or equal. This will help her breath well up top. A 1/2 inch spacer *should* help. Lifting the carbs butterflies up level with the carb pad on the intake.

If ya can track test it before an actual contest between you and the Stang, power can be found through degreeing the cam. This is worth the pains to do. Between degreeing the can and twisting the distributor around a tad, you can really lower your times.

1wild and crazyguy went through a bit of this on his car and he reeally picked up a bit between the adjustments of the 2 said items above.

Whatcha doinb for exhaust? Pipes ending at the rear tire? 2-1/2's?
 
what would the compression be on a stone stock 360 like this with the stock pistons down in the hole? assuming proper sealing of the cylinders and such...i have my own combo cooking now with this
 
I've speced my '79 E-58 cop engine to be 7.9-1. I know longer have the engine. The dude that purchased my Duster now has it and is building it up for a street strip engine.

The heads were 72 cc's and the slugs were preeety far down the hole. I don't remember exactly how far though. But I did mic it up and did the math. It'll take a good head milling to get to 9.0-1.
 
my friend had a smog 360 whoa low compression. Mitchells says 2bbl engines had 8.4 to 1 and 4bbl engines had 8.0 to 1
 
ham_r_down01 said:
my friend had a smog 360 whoa low compression. Mitchells says 2bbl engines had 8.4 to 1 and 4bbl engines had 8.0 to 1
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Until you actually put a mic to the measurements and do the math.
 
the printed info on 318 heads shows low 60's cc wise, and they actually measure 68cc..
same with x/j etc..all were printed as 65-68cc and they're 72cc measured
'302' heads I just picked up for testing measure 64cc and have the same 124cc intake port as regular '675' heads.
same with slants too, 57cc or so and bigger.
 
use magnum heads...you can't loose...get a cheap set...more compression, good flow, less of a chance to detonate.

I've been running a low compression 360 with magnum heads swapped on, summit k6901 cam, air gap, and a holley 600 and it runs really strong...much better than it has a right to. It doesn't hook in 1st even with 3.23's.
 
goldduster318 said:
use magnum heads...you can't loose...get a cheap set...more compression, good flow, less of a chance to detonate.

I've been running a low compression 360 with magnum heads swapped on, summit k6901 cam, air gap, and a holley 600 and it runs really strong...much better than it has a right to. It doesn't hook in 1st even with 3.23's.
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He's using stock pistons/short block w/pistons that are way down in the hole, the closed chamber 'might' raise the comp a lil, but they'll be no quench to counter detonation in that sense.

They flow alright stock, but after that they don't when comparing ported mag vs LA, the mag has a few cfm in the .200-.300, but we are lifting the valve more in this guys example and spending more time in the lift range where the LA heads shine.

but if he could get some and wanted to change to the mag intake,push rods,rockers,valve covers and upper hose outlet, he could.

If pushing the compression to the edge of pump gas was the goal, with pistons down that far...it would still be a dismal gain for all the work/$$$ into it.
 
how far down are the stock pistons typically?
 
depends on the year, but usually ends up lookin like a slant with it seemingly 1/4 down in the bore.

compare .250 to .a usable q dist like .040 or .035

I have a bone stock 77 360 short block here, I should go measure it.
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
depends on the year, but usually ends up lookin like a slant with it seemingly 1/4 down in the bore.

compare .250 to .a usable q dist like .040 or .035

I have a bone stock 77 360 short block here, I should go measure it.
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Mine's a 91 and i never even thought to check how far down it was since i was planning new stuff...now its all in peices...doh!:banghead:
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
He's using stock pistons/short block w/pistons that are way down in the hole, the closed chamber 'might' raise the comp a lil, but they'll be no quench to counter detonation in that sense.

They flow alright stock, but after that they don't when comparing ported mag vs LA, the mag has a few cfm in the .200-.300, but we are lifting the valve more in this guys example and spending more time in the lift range where the LA heads shine.

but if he could get some and wanted to change to the mag intake,push rods,rockers,valve covers and upper hose outlet, he could.

If pushing the compression to the edge of pump gas was the goal, with pistons down that far...it would still be a dismal gain for all the work/$$$ into it.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I have. Stock late '70's pistons (flat top), 0.060" down the hole, etc. There won't be ideal quench, but if you've ever taken the heads off a stock magnum 360 (I have), you'll find the pistons are still down the hole about .040 and are dished. They also run a 0.054" head gasket and I run LA head gaskets which are 0.041". What he would end up with would be within the factory tolerances for a stock 93+ 360 magnum. If the LA heads were better they would have kept them.

I've also been running 16 degrees of timing up front and 36 total (in at 2200rpm) with a 4-speed on 89 with no pinging.

If you're buying an intake anyway, the mag intake is hardly different in price. Junkyard the heads and rockers, and head bolts, buy some 7.650" pushrods and you're ready to go. "LA" valve covers bolt right on.

The average set of LA heads are in need of a valve job, and have all the same spring limitations as the magnum heads. Most people also aren't going to spend the money to get serious head milling done (would make up the price difference for the magnum parts), and then you still end up with an open chamber turd anyway. Magnum heads start at 10cc smaller than LA heads to begin with.

Case in point...I've been trying to sell a decent set of 2.02 intake "J" heads with good springs and bronze valve guides that came with the 340 I bought....and there's been little to no interest. I don't think that's a coincidence.
 
The May 2001 issue of Mopar Muscle had an article doing pretty much what you are trying to do. They started with a junkyard .040 over 360-4 bbl out of a Dodge truck and built it on the cheap, step by step. The initial dyno baseline (stock) showed 266.2 hp at 4300 rpm and 371.3 ft/lbs at 3300 rpm. They tried different component combos and finally got 335.6 hp at 5100 and 400.6 ft/lbs at 3700 without spending too much and with stock heads. Note that this engine was to be used on the street and had to pass a smog inspection. I'm getting ready to do a similar project on the 360 that's in my 79 Chrysler 300.
 
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