9" vs 10" drum brake spindle question

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glockr

glockr

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I want to upgrade the brakes on my 64 Valiant, currently has 9" drums. The upgrade kit I want to use (Stainless Steel Brakes) says it bolts up to 10" spindles. If I buy 10" drum brake spindles, will I need to get anything else to put them on the car other than the SSB disc brake kit? thanks
 
Do yourself a favor and get a kit based on production parts and the next time SSBC or (insert name here) Brake Company goes out of business you won't be SOL trying to find proprietary maintenance parts.

This kit is very popular and @DoctorDiff is a member of this forum. There are many, many satisfied customers here.
10.95" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 1)

The above kit will require you to use 4.5" lug pattern wheels. If you must retain the 4" wheels, find a Kelsey Hayes OEM setup and use that. They are frequently for sale on here. Or start a "Wanted" thread.
 
S'cuder said:
The above kit will require you to use 4.5" lug pattern wheels. If you must retain the 4" wheels, find a Kelsey Hayes OEM setup and use that. They are frequently for sale on here. Or start a "Wanted" thread.
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Actually, Doctor Diff does have the 4" BC option on that kit... It consists of late rotors drilled for the 4" bolt circle, and (I believe) the hub turned down to the smaller register. But it's nothing you couldn't have modified locally if you're in a bind for replacement parts.
 
Professor Fate said:
Actually, Doctor Diff does have the 4" BC option on that kit... It consists of late rotors drilled for the 4" bolt circle, and (I believe) the hub turned down to the smaller register. But it's nothing you couldn't have modified locally if you're in a bind for replacement parts.
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Thanks, I thought maybe, but it was late, my eyes were blurry and I was using my phone. But you're right, easily available stock parts could be easily modified after Cass retires.

doug 371 said:
I think the 9 and 10 use a different lower ball joint don't they?
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Yes. The 9" brake ball joint is light duty and isn't really suited for "spirited" driving. It's fine for it's original purpose though. There are at least four different lower ball joints for A-Bodies, so do a little homework to get the right ones.


One other issue with the later spindles used in the Doctor Diff kit is they move the hub out a fraction of an inch. For most, this isn't a problem.
 
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S'cuder said:
Thanks, I thought maybe, but it was late, my eyes were blurry and I was using my phone. But you're right, easily available stock parts could be easily modified after Cass retires.


Yes. The 9" brake ball joint is light duty and isn't really suited for "spirited" driving. It's fine for it's original purpose though. There are at least four different lower ball joints for A-Bodies, so do a little homework to get the right ones.


One other issue with the later spindles used in the Doctor Diff kit is they move the hub out a fraction of an inch. For most, this isn't a problem.
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Thanks, I'll call Doctor Diff on Monday. If I upgrade to 10" spindles, the only other thing I need to change (other than the brake parts) would be the ball joints?
 
RE your original question:
glockr said:
will I need to get anything else to put them on the car
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Regardless of which kit you get, you will need to upgrade to a later dual reservoir disc brake master cylinder, proportioning valve, and MC line kit. If you have power brakes, you MAY also want to consider upgrading the booster if you choose to stay with PB.
The good Doctor has all the parts.
 
I just swapped from 9" drum to 10" drum on my son's car, that had brand new lower ball joints. Only difference was 9" used smaller diameter attaching bolts, 1/2" vs 5/8" ( I think) for 10". I just drilled out the ball joint for the bigger bolts. Easy, just make sure you get the bigger bolts when you get spindles.
 
Professor Fate said:
RE your original question:

Regardless of which kit you get, you will need to upgrade to a later dual reservoir disc brake master cylinder, proportioning valve, and MC line kit. If you have power brakes, you MAY also want to consider upgrading the booster if you choose to stay with PB.
The good Doctor has all the parts.
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Actually, on this car I want to get rid of the power brakes and go with manual. I am planning on getting the dual master cylinder. When I think about it, it's kind of crazy that cars used to be made with just a single chamber MC.
 
glockr said:
Thanks, I'll call Doctor Diff on Monday. If I upgrade to 10" spindles, the only other thing I need to change (other than the brake parts) would be the ball joints?
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The Stage 1 and Stage 2 kits include these Mopar disc brake spindles. Mopar Reproduction Disc Brake Knuckles for A/B/E Bodies

He does offer large Cobra and Viper brake kits that use 10" drum spindles. These are serious high performance brakes that may be overkill for your intended use. I believe the Cobra kit requires a 17" wheel.
 
Ok gents I’m hoping to help a bit here.
A body front suspensions used two different part numbers for lower ball joints from 64-72. One was for drum the other was disc. Difference was the drum balljoint has a 1/2 hole while the disc has a 9/16 hole. Otherwise they are the same casting. If you have a 9 inch system you can swap only the spindles to use 10 inch spindles.
Leed and SSBC both use a mustang rotor Raybestos 6004R Centric 121-61053. The only difference is if you order the A body kit from SSBC they have the dual pattern drilled rotor. But if you only want to use BBP you can buy mustang replacements. And SSBC is still very much in business and providing parts. I question their method for rear seal because they use the larger mustang seal.
Now on to the 73 and up. For 73 model year all A bodies started using the B body style lower ball joint. Moog PNs K781 and K783. They also started using the B body upper balljoint K772. To use the single piston brakes you have to swap upper control arms or use the balljoint adaptor. The 73 and up is the basis for everything that’s offered with a single piston caliper.
So now that I’ve buried everyone in tech details, I hope the clarification makes decisions easier.
 
AbodyBB said:
And SSBC is still very much in business and providing parts.
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The SSBC now in business is version 2.0. They bought the OG SSBC's assets out of receivership for pennies on the dollar, and are doing some of the work SSBC v1.0 did. A few years before the new SSBC opened a few miles away from the original location, the original company went teats up, leaving customers, vendors and employees empty handed, owing for paid orders, receivables and wages, respectively. At that time, the rotors in their Mopar A-Body kits were proprietary, and I'm having trouble believing the Ford rotors fit the Mopar A-Body drum knuckles without modification. My friend paid for a pair of SSBC rotors and six weeks later SSBC shut their doors without shipping them. He ended up converting his SSBC conversion to brakes from a '74 Duster. He spent a lot of money on parts that he ended up junking.

The lesson? Buy stock-based systems like those sold by Doctor Diff or from an aftermarket company like Wilwood. Or take your chances at being left high and dry.
 
S-cuder I don’t disagree with the ideas. I’m saying the OP can choose but know the differences so he can consider costs and what he would like to do.
I have just purchased a Leed brake conversion and it’s all mustang parts. By what I can tell in photos it’s the same as an SSBC. I was also a bit skeptical so I looked into bearings and seals. The mustang rotor uses the same bearings as Mopar 10 in drum/disc. Mounts directly onto either A body or B body drum brake spindles. What I’m not happy about is the spacer that they use to locate the inner bearing and provide a wheel seal.
Also after searching here I found that “the ram man” also modified mustang rotors to fit directly onto the Mopar A body Kelsey Hayes spindles.
It is sad that the V1.0 went the way it did but usually with a little legwork you can figure out what was done. I don’t have any info on the older SSBC systems but if someone out there has one I would like to compare the Leed and the older SSBC system.
 
AbodyBB said:
S-cuder I don’t disagree with the ideas. I’m saying the OP can choose but know the differences so he can consider costs and what he would like to do.
I have just purchased a Leed brake conversion and it’s all mustang parts. By what I can tell in photos it’s the same as an SSBC. I was also a bit skeptical so I looked into bearings and seals. The mustang rotor uses the same bearings as Mopar 10 in drum/disc. Mounts directly onto either A body or B body drum brake spindles. What I’m not happy about is the spacer that they use to locate the inner bearing and provide a wheel seal.
Also after searching here I found that “the ram man” also modified mustang rotors to fit directly onto the Mopar A body Kelsey Hayes spindles.
It is sad that the V1.0 went the way it did but usually with a little legwork you can figure out what was done. I don’t have any info on the older SSBC systems but if someone out there has one I would like to compare the Leed and the older SSBC system.
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I don't know this to be fact, but since Leed brakes is located only a few miles from the SSBC 1 & 2 locations, and because the products are so similar, they may be some of the old SSBC engineers and/or employees. I have another friend who loves their kit and customer service. So yes, you pay your money and make your choice! I hope it meets your expectations and works well for you.

Reviews on Ram Man run the gamut. Everything from the best ever to a total rip-off who won't respond to communication.
 
I didn't see mention of needing 10" drum hubs. I don't think those were considered wear items, so junkyard. Way back in 1990, I had to search hard to find one for my 1969 Dart with 9" drums. I was in Atlanta for the weekend and found the outer bearing race had spun to ruin the left hub. I tried 3 junkyards in Atlanta but could find only 10" drum cars (no Row52 then). Had to drive back to my rural TN job with the bad hub and finally found a 9" hub in a junkyard there. They used tiny bearings (recall SET 1 and SET 3) in 9" hubs. Indeed, the other side had an outer bearing spin years earlier. Thus, good you are changing to 10" spindles and hubs. In comparison, my 1985 M-B uses larger SET3 and SET5 wheel bearings, same as a GM pickup. I recall the A-body 10" hubs use SET 2 and SET 4 bearings (check Rockauto). If you go with the 1973+ front disks, the hub is integral with rotor, so no worries as long as you can buy rotors.

Scarebird had the least expensive disk kit, but I read here a few months ago that he was closing shop. I grabbed their 10" drum kit (last one?). He didn't have a 9" drum kit. My Dart is 10" drums and my Valiant 9" drums, but I have most 10" drum parts to convert the later, except for one hub (that again!) which I should be searching for. Wifey considers my stocked parts "old junk", but sure is gold when you need them. K-H setups are very rare now. I saw one recently on ebay, but didn't have the hubs so didn't want to risk that treasure hunt.
 
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