A-Body Autocross?

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67autocross said:
Hey Wracks is Bill still planning on using the upper rear shock bolts to mount the rear sway bar?
As far as autocross in Canada it seems like they will let you run anything, last year I was at one and some roofing company guy was running a diesel full size ford with a ladder rack on it.
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uhhh. i don't think so. that is funny about the truck! SCCA down here won't even let you run a TRUCK/SUV as far as i know.
 
A few years back he made a few rear bars that mounted that way but I don't think he put them into production.
 
Wow guys great posts. Thanks so much for all the feedback. Gives me a lot to think about before the money starts flowing.
 
Hey I know I'm a little late adding my 2 cents, but it really is all about what you want to spend. I'm sure a car with coil overs and a rack and pinion will be EASIER to drive quickly on an autocross, and if you have the money to do it, great. I don't have the money so my 69 Barracuda convertible runs torsion bars, leaf springs, $14.95 Gabriel gas shocks, a firm feel box, front sway bar, and subframe connectors. That's it. Less than $1000 in suspension/steering. At the last Goodguys Autocross in Del Mar it beat the $150k Camaro that just got invited to Optima (Alcala) and Steven Rupps "Bad Penny" Camaro. Just goes to show you torsion bars can still surprise the big-bucks guys....


SM Greg Thurmond 64 Chevy Corvette 54.086 PRO
SM Gregg Blunder 69 Chevy Camaro 54.385
SM Kyle Newman 55 Chevy Bel Air 54.486
SM Casey Cronin 68 Chevy Camaro 54.841
SM Robert Pierik 71 Chevy Camaro 55.345
SM Dan Weishaar 70 Dodge Challenger 55.37
SM Rodney Prouty 68 Chevy Camaro 55.414
SM Tom Kamman 69 Plymouth Barracuda 55.452
SM Matt Alcala 69 Chevy Camaro 55.61
SM Brianne Maier 66 Ford Mustang 55.65
SM Bob Gawlif 71 Chevy Camaro 56.134
SM Steve Rupp 68 Chevy Camaro 56.233
SM Jane Thurmond 64 Chevy Corvette 56.4
SM Tdd Vierra 56 Chevy Wagon 56.521
SM Chris Meyer 70 Chevy Camaro 57.574
SM Robbie Conklin 68 Chevy Chevelle 58
SM Gerald Lum 71 Chevy Camaro 58.091
SM **** Eytchison 65 Chevy Chevelle 58.35
SM Chad Humphreys 69 Ford Mach 1 58.516
SM Kyle Newman 57 Chevy 58.715
SM Dennis McNeil 71 Chevy Chevelle 59.118
SM Richard Trujillo 69 Ford Mustang 59.249
SM Aaron Raymond 69 Chevy Camaro 59.426
SM Mike Fitzsimmons 67 Pontiac Firebird 59.667
SM Nick Herrington 67 Ford Mustang 59.932
SM Mike Young 65 Ford Mustang 60.028
SM Evan Osborn 67 Chevy Camaro 60.281
SM Robb McIntosh 69 Chevy Camaro 60.342
SM Ralph Hollis 70 Pontiac GTO 61.093
SM Christian Dilauro 69 Chevy Camaro 61.134
SM Chris Humphreys 71 Chevy Camaro 61.203
SM John Barkley 72 Chevy Camaro 61.242
SM Tim Davis 66 Ford Mustang 61.524
SM Chuck Rust 65 Chevy Covair 61.783
SM George Reiss 64 Pontiac Lemans 64.047
SM Mike Colon 69 Chevy Camaro 64.13
SM Jerry McNulty 65 Ford Mustang 67.04
 
tomswheels said:
Hey I know I'm a little late adding my 2 cents, but it really is all about what you want to spend. I'm sure a car with coil overs and a rack and pinion will be EASIER to drive quickly on an autocross, and if you have the money to do it, great. I don't have the money so my 69 Barracuda convertible runs torsion bars, leaf springs, $14.95 Gabriel gas shocks, a firm feel box, front sway bar, and subframe connectors. That's it. Less than $1000 in suspension/steering. At the last Goodguys Autocross in Del Mar it beat the $150k Camaro that just got invited to Optima (Alcala) and Steven Rupps "Bad Penny" Camaro. Just goes to show you torsion bars can still surprise the big-bucks guys....


SM Greg Thurmond 64 Chevy Corvette 54.086 PRO
SM Gregg Blunder 69 Chevy Camaro 54.385
SM Kyle Newman 55 Chevy Bel Air 54.486
SM Casey Cronin 68 Chevy Camaro 54.841
SM Robert Pierik 71 Chevy Camaro 55.345
SM Dan Weishaar 70 Dodge Challenger 55.37
SM Rodney Prouty 68 Chevy Camaro 55.414
SM Tom Kamman 69 Plymouth Barracuda 55.452
SM Matt Alcala 69 Chevy Camaro 55.61
SM Brianne Maier 66 Ford Mustang 55.65
SM Bob Gawlif 71 Chevy Camaro 56.134
SM Steve Rupp 68 Chevy Camaro 56.233
SM Jane Thurmond 64 Chevy Corvette 56.4
SM Tdd Vierra 56 Chevy Wagon 56.521
SM Chris Meyer 70 Chevy Camaro 57.574
SM Robbie Conklin 68 Chevy Chevelle 58
SM Gerald Lum 71 Chevy Camaro 58.091
SM **** Eytchison 65 Chevy Chevelle 58.35
SM Chad Humphreys 69 Ford Mach 1 58.516
SM Kyle Newman 57 Chevy 58.715
SM Dennis McNeil 71 Chevy Chevelle 59.118
SM Richard Trujillo 69 Ford Mustang 59.249
SM Aaron Raymond 69 Chevy Camaro 59.426
SM Mike Fitzsimmons 67 Pontiac Firebird 59.667
SM Nick Herrington 67 Ford Mustang 59.932
SM Mike Young 65 Ford Mustang 60.028
SM Evan Osborn 67 Chevy Camaro 60.281
SM Robb McIntosh 69 Chevy Camaro 60.342
SM Ralph Hollis 70 Pontiac GTO 61.093
SM Christian Dilauro 69 Chevy Camaro 61.134
SM Chris Humphreys 71 Chevy Camaro 61.203
SM John Barkley 72 Chevy Camaro 61.242
SM Tim Davis 66 Ford Mustang 61.524
SM Chuck Rust 65 Chevy Covair 61.783
SM George Reiss 64 Pontiac Lemans 64.047
SM Mike Colon 69 Chevy Camaro 64.13
SM Jerry McNulty 65 Ford Mustang 67.04
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I don't know if the goodguys autocross is a fair example though. JMO, but the typical course they use is short and simple. Everything looks good on their course.

That said, i'm still debating on whether to keep my T-bars or not. That hotchkis challenger is pretty incredible and i feel like the borgeson box may be an equalizer. I can't imagine autox on a stock box. Its just crap and a part of me wonders if the big advantage in the coilover systems is how nice and crisp the steering is compared to an oem setup.
 
tomswheels said:
Hey I know I'm a little late adding my 2 cents, but it really is all about what you want to spend. I'm sure a car with coil overs and a rack and pinion will be EASIER to drive quickly on an autocross, and if you have the money to do it, great. I don't have the money so my 69 Barracuda convertible runs torsion bars, leaf springs, $14.95 Gabriel gas shocks, a firm feel box, front sway bar, and subframe connectors. That's it. Less than $1000 in suspension/steering. At the last Goodguys Autocross in Del Mar it beat the $150k Camaro that just got invited to Optima (Alcala) and Steven Rupps "Bad Penny" Camaro. Just goes to show you torsion bars can still surprise the big-bucks guys....
Click to expand...

Awesome work!!! :thumbup:

The torsion bar suspension design can absolutely be competitive, its good to see that in practice and not just theory. And have someone show that you don't need to have tens of thousands of dollars into your car to do well at these events. Although I am surprised your $14.95 Gabriel shocks work that well for you. :D


magnumdust said:
I don't know if the goodguys autocross is a fair example though. JMO, but the typical course they use is short and simple. Everything looks good on their course.

That said, i'm still debating on whether to keep my T-bars or not. That hotchkis challenger is pretty incredible and i feel like the borgeson box may be an equalizer. I can't imagine autox on a stock box. Its just crap and a part of me wonders if the big advantage in the coilover systems is how nice and crisp the steering is compared to an oem setup.
Click to expand...

The course may be simple, but all the cars on it have that advantage. A simple course should be a piece of cake for a 150k dollar ride. Maybe it won't test all the advantages that car may or may not have, but it won't make it slower.

Coilovers are easier to set up, but that's really about it. More options as far as spring rates and matched dampening. They're just springs, just like torsion bars. Nothing magical. A properly matched torsion bar spring rate and shock damping rate can do just as well. As far as the steering, the conversions just go to a rack and pinion. Superior to the old Mopar boxes sure, but with Flaming river boxes and the new Borgeson stuff out there now I think you can deal with the steering.
 
72bluNblu said:
Awesome work!!! :thumbup:

The torsion bar suspension design can absolutely be competitive, its good to see that in practice and not just theory. And have someone show that you don't need to have tens of thousands of dollars into your car to do well at these events. Although I am surprised your $14.95 Gabriel shocks work that well for you. :D




The course may be simple, but all the cars on it have that advantage. A simple course should be a piece of cake for a 150k dollar ride. Maybe it won't test all the advantages that car may or may not have, but it won't make it slower.

Coilovers are easier to set up, but that's really about it. More options as far as spring rates and matched dampening. They're just springs, just like torsion bars. Nothing magical. A properly matched torsion bar spring rate and shock damping rate can do just as well. As far as the steering, the conversions just go to a rack and pinion. Superior to the old Mopar boxes sure, but with Flaming river boxes and the new Borgeson stuff out there now I think you can deal with the steering.
Click to expand...

I just don't know though, because there is also the hp factor of the 150k ride. Which can work against you on the small "peanut", but i guess we'll see if that changes when i finally get some performance suspension parts on my car.
 
magnumdust said:
I just don't know though, because there is also the hp factor of the 150k ride. Which can work against you on the small "peanut", but i guess we'll see if that changes when i finally get some performance suspension parts on my car.
Click to expand...

It still comes back to well matched parts. If your 150k ride has more horsepower than the suspension can put to the ground, what was the point?

A simple course may not spread the field as much, and may allow "lesser" cars to turn decent times. But if the high dollar cars are truly that well tuned, they should still be out in front. Maybe not by as big of a margin as on a complicated course that would in theory show off their high dollar suspension, but that level of tuning should still have the advantage. If it doesn't, well, maybe its not as well tuned as they thought. Just because things cost a lot of money doesn't always mean they're better.
 
magnumdust said:
I just don't know though, because there is also the hp factor of the 150k ride. Which can work against you on the small "peanut", but i guess we'll see if that changes when i finally get some performance suspension parts on my car.
Click to expand...

72bluNblu said:
It still comes back to well matched parts. If your 150k ride has more horsepower than the suspension can put to the ground, what was the point?

A simple course may not spread the field as much, and may allow "lesser" cars to turn decent times. But if the high dollar cars are truly that well tuned, they should still be out in front. Maybe not by as big of a margin as on a complicated course that would in theory show off their high dollar suspension, but that level of tuning should still have the advantage. If it doesn't, well, maybe its not as well tuned as they thought. Just because things cost a lot of money doesn't always mean they're better.
Click to expand...

This was of course a short course, but longer and different than the typical peanut. Straight, U-turn, straight, U-turn, 1 long sweeper, repeat. If anything it should have rewarded HP and high-dollar brakes (I run a 320HP crate 360, 73 Scamp stock front discs, and a Lincoln Mark vii stock 8.8 rear). The 69 Cuda also beat ALL the late model cars on Sunday(except my Brembo 420 HP Mustang) including C6 Vettes, new Challengers, Mustangs and Camaros... :cheers:


SM. Tom Kamman 69. Plymouth Barracuda. 55.452
SS Kirk Masterfield 12 Ford Mustang 56.075
SS Joy Wheaton 00' Ford Mustang 56.319
SS Greg Steadman 10 Dodge Challenger 56.334
SS George Dias 02' Ford Lightning 58.38
SS Victor Rodriguez 12 Ford Mustang 58.419
SS Jeff Wikinson 11 Chevy Corvette 60.265
SS Justin Libby 11 Dodge Challenger 60.386
SS Garrett Gilbeau 04' Dodge Challenger 60.971
SS Steve Bandtlow 08' Ford Mustang 61.069
SS Hector Gutierrez 09' Saturn Sky 61.754
SS Jack Graham 10 Chevy Camaro 62.874
SS Steve Sorereign 07' Ford Mustang 69.617
SS Rama Lazcano 01' Lincoln Towncar 69.717
SS Kyle Luker 02' Ford Lightning 75.872
SS Dante Aguilar 10 Chevy Camaro
 
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