A very good example of resto cost and value of a 69 Cuda

[barbee6043]

Fact is undercoating help stop/slowdown rust. Many cars rust from the inside of floors, inside of quarters, inside of doors, etc.
Years back,a high end resto was to duplicate factory, period.
The buzz for shiny bottom sides started bout time someone invented the clone!?

 

[autoxcuda]

Fact is undercoating help stop/slowdown rust. Many cars rust from the inside of floors, inside of quarters, inside of doors, etc.
Years back,a high end resto was to duplicate factory, period.
The buzz for shiny bottom sides started bout time someone invented the clone!?

No.

Shiny bottom comes from custom Hot Rods since the beginning of Customizing cars. Autorama, Grand National Roadster show, etc...

there were plenty of customized muscle cars in the 70’s and 80’s show circuits and magazines.

As the value, appreciation, and knowledge of muscle cars in their factory delivered state increased, restorations changed to meet that.

And right now there is a large demand for custom musclecars too. Those custom trends though change with time more frequently.

 

[barbee6043]

No.

Shiny bottom comes from custom Hot Rods since the beginning of Customizing cars. Autorama, Grand National Roadster show, etc...

As the value, appreciation, and knowledge of muscle cars in their factory delivered state increased, restorations changed to meet that.

Restoration is making it like came from factory OEM right?
The "restored" cars at Autorama, etc are builds not restos IMO.
I have no problem with shiny bottom, but I dislike people putting down undercoating a car that came that way from the factory. Splitting hairs no doubt.

 

[autoxcuda]

Restoration is making it like came from factory OEM right?
The "restored" cars at Autorama, etc are builds not restos IMO.
I have no problem with shiny bottom, but I dislike people putting down undercoating a car that came that way from the factory. Splitting hairs no doubt.

yes.

But most people have something in between. Some light bolt on mods or stuff you can’t really see.

For our car show purposes, we call those Restified. And it’s usually more popular than modified or stock.

 

[barbee6043]

yes.

But most people have something in between. Some light bolt on mods or stuff you can’t really see.

For our car show purposes, we call those Restified. And it’s usually the more popular than modified or stock.

I have been to Mopars nats first time about 1987?
I admit I am not a show show type but I love to see beautiful cars no matter what make or type of build. There is a place in our hobby for everything and everyone.
Would I buy a "done" car with shaved door handles. No. I would not want it that way nor want to do the work and spend the $ to undo it. Just me. Does it make that car worth less? Just to me maybe. Am I am 100% nubers guy? No. But I will not put down anyone for their style of build. I will not put down the guy that cannot afford or have the ability or tools to do it "right" either! ha
How did we get off subject! ha

 

[autoxcuda]

I have been to Mopars nats first time about 1987?
I admit I am not a show show type but I love to see beautiful cars no matter what make or type of build. There is a place in our hobby for everything and everyone.
Would I buy a "done" car with shaved door handles. No. I would not want it that way nor want to do the work and spend the $ to undo it. Just me. Does it make that car worth less? Just to me maybe. Am I am 100% nubers guy? No. But I will not put down anyone for their style of build. I will not put down the guy that cannot afford or have the ability or tools to do it "right" either! ha
How did we get off subject! ha

I do too.

But the original post seemed to be focusing on money aspect of it. In this thread’s title; “...resto cost and value...”

Dollar Spend vs Dollar Sold.

My point is between those two things are Choices Made. The choices you make for the dollar spent can greatly effect the dollar sold.

People are not obligated to put value to someone else’s poor choices.

People spend lots of money going around in circles.

...same goes for life in general.

 

[davescuda]

The cost of a restoration depends on how much you do yourself! When real Factory 340, 383 and 440 A Body Cars are done right they get rewarded good money in return. Good deals are out there. But most of those cars sold under value, there is a lot of stuff wrong with them. Most serious Cars are sold private never being advertised, I deal people that do this all the time.
The average A body is a cheap car to buy done.

 

[YY1]

I really hate to see lines like- "I've got over 40,000 dollars in this 1980 Pacer, just need to get my money back. All the hard work is done and all the (questionable aftermarket) parts are ready to install, after you finish back-halfing it and paint it the color of your choice".

 

[Kendog 170]

I'll refer to the guy that looks at my car and then says something like. I know where there's a Road Runner that needs to be restored. I might buy it. How much do you think it would cost to have it restored ? That's when I say go out and buy one that is done. It's cheaper and you will be driving it tomorrow.

 

[RON REAGLE]

My 68 is a really nice car and I paid what I would consider a fair price for the condition. If I would have had both cars side by side I would have paid more for the 69 considering the extent of the "restoration" already done. I would have saved money in the end and had a more finished car. I'm in process of pulling the driveline for a complete gasket and repaint , front suspension and disc brake install , complete exhaust and then rewiring it. Yes I'll be "making it mine" and spending a lot of time and money in the process!!!

BTW I didn't buy this car to sell it anyhow. I friggin LOVE 68 Cuda's and I'm totally nuts over this car. I AM LIVING THE DREAM!!!

 

[autoxcuda]

The cost of a restoration depends on how much you do yourself! When real Factory 340, 383 and 440 A Body Cars are done right they get rewarded good money in return. Good deals are out there. But most of those cars sold under value, there is a lot of stuff wrong with them. Most serious Cars are sold private never being advertised, I deal people that do this all the time.
The average A body is a cheap car to buy done.

i agree.

And another factor is the ability and willingness to hunt and research good values on parts and outside services.

If you want everything right now and don’t like shopping for your used and new parts, you’ll probably spend much more than another person that will.

also, many of us have seen people overpay for poor quality outside work (paint, body, upholstery, chrome, etc). Not uncommon to see one person pay $25K for paint and body that is the same quality as another person pays $15K for.

The differences in parts and labor spent can add up to huge amounts.

 

[Inertia]

I thought the 69 340s were turquoise?

Mine is. I bought it new outta the showroom.

I believe the only red/orange issue in 68/69 was the pie plate on the air filter.

 

[davescuda]

My 68 is a really nice car and I paid what I would consider a fair price for the condition. If I would have had both cars side by side I would have paid more for the 69 considering the extent of the "restoration" already done. I would have saved money in the end and had a more finished car. I'm in process of pulling the driveline for a complete gasket and repaint , front suspension and disc brake install , complete exhaust and then rewiring it. Yes I'll be "making it mine" and spending a lot of time and money in the process!!!

BTW I didn't buy this car to sell it anyhow. I friggin LOVE 68 Cuda's and I'm totally nuts over this car. I AM LIVING THE DREAM!!!

View attachment 1715677207

Same car 68 to 69, The 68 are worth more than a 69 (except 68 Hemi’s, 68GSS, 68 440 GTS and 69 Cuda package cars) not sure why maybe less 68 out there.

 

[autoxcuda]

Same car 68 to 69, The 68 are worth more than a 69 (except 68 Hemi’s, 68GSS, 68 440 GTS and 69 Cuda package cars) not sure why maybe less 68 out there.

They made less 69 barracuda’s than 68’s. I see a lot less 69’s at shows and events.
I’ve always viewed 69 and 68 pretty close in value.

IMHO, 69’s are more expensive to restore. The ‘69 fender tag having the vin is a big plus documenting one.

 

[A56]

I thought the 69 340s were turquoise?

Not just Turquoise.

 

[adriver]

Almost nothing in the classic car hobby is worse to me than paying a premium for a pretty paint job and then having bondo crack out of it after the first seasonal temperature cycle.

That's why I used Bondo Glass.

 

[YY1]

For comparison-

2019 Don Garlits car corral had a 68 fastback 318 auto, bench seat car in metallic brown.

Had a built 340 and an 8 3/4 under it.

Really, really NICE driver street/mild strip car with time slips taped to the door.
Not a radical build at all though.

I believe it was driven there about 160 miles.

Body looked very solid, int was nice.

22K

About a month later, I saw it on local craigslist for 20K and it sat there for a few months.

 

[A56]

Mine is. I bought it new outta the showroom.

I believe the only red/orange issue in 68/69 was the pie plate on the air filter.

They were three different colors. Both of my A56 cuda package cars were/are turquoise. There is a numbers matching original console auto A56 with a/c that was blue. True about that pie plate cover though. Very similar situation with torque boxes that were supposed to be on specific cars.

 

[A56]

Blue - (No Mopar number) (Color code never appeared in manuals)
Slightly darker than the standard blue used on the 70's LA engines. Paint also turned Turquoise with heat. Even Galen Govier does not have a spec for mixing. This paint was used on a lot of 340' and other LA engines in late 69. Most restorers use Blue Mopar P4349217 (above) to repaint and
the judges agree.
Turquoise - Mopar P4120752 (Medium blue-green color)

• 1962-1971 All B/RB big blocks.
• 1969 LA 340's.

 

[jimharvard]

I agree with you, Jim, but do you think an owner of such a car could make a net profit if he farmed out the body work and paint, and maybe also the motor and trans, but did pretty much all the rest of the work himself?

hey Bill....

i literally spend HOURS every day on the internet looking at every 67-69 Barracuda i can find for sale on multiple sites. i think the problem with any kind of "profit" on these cars is that the current market appears to have a very specific "upper limit" of value on these cars and it looks to be somewhere between $60-70K. AND, the ONLY second generation Barracudas i've EVER seen sell for anything above $40k were a few of the "perfect" and completely original M-Code 69 cars. now, i have seen recently a guy asking (i believe) $75k for an original and "almost" perfect yellow 1969 Notchback with the "Mod Top" "paisley" vinyl top and matching interior. that car is very nice AND you could probably count the number of "very nice" Mod Top 69 Barracudas existing on your hands and toes. i would argue that THOSE cars are MORE rare than even the M-Code cars because the Mod Top was such a crazy option in 1969. but to bring really big money, the Mod Top car would have to be all numbers matching with a "correct" fender tag that showed the MT option. "very nice" 340, 383 cars are now selling for between $22k to $30k. i just corresponded with a guy who thought he could do a "quick flip" on a "decent" 69 383 4sp fastback that he paid $25k for and started out asking $35k for the car. he has already dropped the price to $31,500 obo.

i just bought a complete 69 fastback with rust but repairable. i paid $3500 for it. here in Pittsburgh, the least expensive body shop rate you could probably find is $100/hr. i'm guessing that this car would take two full weeks of work (80 hrs) in a shop to prepare for paint. that would be $8000. if you shopped around in my area, you could probably get the car painted for $7000. with the car plus body work and paint, you're now at $18,500. i have been talking to machine shops on building a 440 for my M car and i'm getting estimates of between $4500-$6000 with me providing the block. add $4500 in engine work to the within car and you're at $23,000. now you have to do the interior. a completely new interior - dash bezel, seat covers, carpet, door panels will cost around $2000. that puts you at $25,000. now, you "might" be able to get $28k out of this car so "theoretically" you could make around $3000. the problem that i'm finding with now actively restoring two of the 5 cars i have is that restoration parts are very expensive; body work paint and materials are very expensive; and you can't get an engine rebuild done for less then $4000. SO... my experience is that if you can do as much work as possible yourself and just "farm out" body work, paint and engine/trans work - the best you can hope for is to be very close to the "break even" point of investment versus market value for second gen Barracudas.

 

[jimharvard]

Mine is. I bought it new outta the showroom.

I believe the only red/orange issue in 68/69 was the pie plate on the air filter.

i will argue confidently that ALL 1968 340 mopar engines were painted RED from the factory and that RED is the only "correct" color for a 68 340. beginning in 1969 is when "OEM engine paint" seems to have been "whatever was on the shelf" at the manufacturing plant. the majority of restoration sources i've seen say "hemi orange" is the "correct" color for a 69 340. HOWEVER - there were turquoise (Chrysler Blue) 340's in 69 and a few "carry-over" 1968 Red 1969 340's. i "believe" all 318 motors were painted Chrysler Blue in 1969 and i suspect some of the small block engine assembly lines just painted 340's with the same paint as the 318's.

 

[jimharvard]

They made less 69 barracuda’s than 68’s. I see a lot less 69’s at shows and events.
I’ve always viewed 69 and 68 pretty close in value.

IMHO, 69’s are more expensive to restore. The ‘69 fender tag having the vin is a big plus documenting one.

69 Cudas do have some "one year only" parts like the front grill assembly and because of that, are more expensive to restore. for example, several of the parts on the grill are interchangeable between 67 and 68. the 69 grill is completely unique for that year only. you can find very nice and complete 68 grill assemblies for $500-$800 dollars. it is not unusual to see complete 69 grills advertised for $1500. if you buy a complete new restoration 69 grill assembly, expect to pay over $2000.

 

[autoxcuda]

Same car 68 to 69, The 68 are worth more than a 69 (except 68 Hemi’s, 68GSS, 68 440 GTS and 69 Cuda package cars) not sure why maybe less 68 out there.

Dave, would you consider selling amount fairly close? Like under 10% or even 5%?

Also, you think 68’s sell faster? (that’s different thing than amount)

I respect your experience and observations, I know you sell and follow that closely.

 

[like_A_pike]

Jim:
Are you conducting a market analysis on this asking price to see where it should be or are you trying to convince the market that the asking price is what it should bear?

 

[autoxcuda]

hey Bill....

i literally spend HOURS every day on the internet looking at every 67-69 Barracuda i can find for sale on multiple sites. i think the problem with any kind of "profit" on these cars is that the current market appears to have a very specific "upper limit" of value on these cars and it looks to be somewhere between $60-70K. AND, the ONLY second generation Barracudas i've EVER seen sell for anything above $40k were a few of the "perfect" and completely original M-Code 69 cars. now, i have seen recently a guy asking (i believe) $75k for an original and "almost" perfect yellow 1969 Notchback with the "Mod Top" "paisley" vinyl top and matching interior. that car is very nice AND you could probably count the number of "very nice" Mod Top 69 Barracudas existing on your hands and toes. i would argue that THOSE cars are MORE rare than even the M-Code cars because the Mod Top was such a crazy option in 1969. but to bring really big money, the Mod Top car would have to be all numbers matching with a "correct" fender tag that showed the MT option. "very nice" 340, 383 cars are now selling for between $22k to $30k. i just corresponded with a guy who thought he could do a "quick flip" on a "decent" 69 383 4sp fastback that he paid $25k for and started out asking $35k for the car. he has already dropped the price to $31,500 obo.

i just bought a complete 69 fastback with rust but repairable. i paid $3500 for it. here in Pittsburgh, the least expensive body shop rate you could probably find is $100/hr. i'm guessing that this car would take two full weeks of work (80 hrs) in a shop to prepare for paint. that would be $8000. if you shopped around in my area, you could probably get the car painted for $7000. with the car plus body work and paint, you're now at $18,500. i have been talking to machine shops on building a 440 for my M car and i'm getting estimates of between $4500-$6000 with me providing the block. add $4500 in engine work to the within car and you're at $23,000. now you have to do the interior. a completely new interior - dash bezel, seat covers, carpet, door panels will cost around $2000. that puts you at $25,000. now, you "might" be able to get $28k out of this car so "theoretically" you could make around $3000. the problem that i'm finding with now actively restoring two of the 5 cars i have is that restoration parts are very expensive; body work paint and materials are very expensive; and you can't get an engine rebuild done for less then $4000. SO... my experience is that if you can do as much work as possible yourself and just "farm out" body work, paint and engine/trans work - the best you can hope for is to be very close to the "break even" point of investment versus market value for second gen Barracudas.

That $3500 barracuda needing rust repair probably is not the right car to do a level of restoration that you mapped out there.

A person would have to be able and willing to do more work themselves. Like assembling the motor after machine work was done. Doing some of the rough rust repair. Straightening and polishing the stainless and aluminum. Repairing plastic grille and repainting.

Restoring items to a lower level of authenticity: painting the dash fascia and making plastic repairs. Leaving a tail light bezel with light pitting. Glueing a broken A-pillar molding and filling voids with modeling putty...

Otherwise try finding a car that has a higher end game like a 340-S car.