A warning and maybe a prayer would help

[1930]

Im a pretty good mechanic, I have bodyman experience for 30 plus years, in that time Ive learned that to make money you do everything you can, I do my own air bags, dashboards, frame changes, theres nothing I cant do, I am one of the best in my area and have always been one of the best at any dealership Ive ever worked at cause I know how to figure things out if I dont know how to fix them and Im fast but thorough.

I guarantee that TONY is NO better of a mechanic than I am, Tony may know alot of things I dont know but that works both ways.

Looking at the truck this A.M. I see there is no throttle return spring, the half assed cable that runs down to the accelerator is rusted tight. I dont know what wrong with trans, havent looked at it. ( and wont )

Im an honest guy, I work hard, I dont try to scew anyone up.

I could have done more, I regret that.

The facts still remain however that the truck was dropped off at my shop by the owner and his jackoff mechanic, I tried to move the truck to move it after they left, it immediately started, slammed into reverse WOT. I was pissed, I waited until the next time Tom called, I told him what had happened, told him that was B.S.

Someone could have warned me!

He implied that it was Jackoffs ( which I know it was ) fault and he would have him fix it when the truck was returned to him.

I was supposed to have the truck 8 months, that was the time frame I told him initially cause its a project, its filler work, hard to make money on filler work.

Every time Tom called or stopped by ( maybe 5-7 times ) I told him I was trying to get this Fn truck done cause I was sick and tired of pushing it around the shop.I was hoping that if i complained enough about it he would have Jack come over to fix the problems, he didnt, Im sure he figured he was already paying me to much ( like everyone assumes these days ) and EH makeim push the truck!

I got it done within maybe ( guessing approx ) 3 months.

I called Tom......... jackoff mechanic was jerking him around about finishing it, he asked me to just trailer it too his house which I agreed to know problem and he would deal with it from there ( I felt sorry for him )

He came to my shop, he helped me push it back onto a trailer, again I absolutely made it clear TOM dont try and start the truck cause it may start in gear, he acknowledged and off we went, got to his house, unloaded it and family members helped us push it to its current location.

I left and according to his wife they went inside and had dinner ( I dropped it off approx 4.30-5 ) he then asked his wife if shed like to hear it run, she said yes and that was the end of it.

This didnt happen a week later, this didnt even happen the next day, this happened the very same evening that I dropped off the truck.

Again if I had to do it all over again I would have warned the wife about not trying to start it, beyond that Im still not feeling its my place to undo any linkages or screw with the guys carb. Its just not my place.

Other than genuinely feeling bad for the old guy and his family cause he made a dumb move any one of us could have made I am Ok with myself.

We live in a world now where its always got to be someone else fault, no accountability for our own actions, Im thinking some of you people are young, were just raised that way, I was raised ( as was Tom that if we Fd up we immediately take the blame ( and I mean MARCH right over and take the blame, no he hawing around ) upon ourselves, its how we keep our souls clear of unwanted debri.

Im done with this thread I hope a mod DOSENT get rid of it, Im not ashamed and have nothing too hide, have a nice day.

 

[1930]

Mods, please do not delete this thread, if it were deleted than it would look like I was ashamed or had something to hide...Im not and dont

 

[ab7fh]

I recently heard of the same kind of thing happening to an old guy in AZ. Started the vehicle from outside, got knocked down and dragged, but he was killed. The story I heard was that the throttle return spring was set for WOT instead of idle!

 

[whitepunkonnitro]

Wow, you just keep going.
OK, try and wrap your head around this.
By your own admission, you were aware of a potentially deadly mechanical situation.
By your own admission you have adequate mechanical skills to have repaired or at least disabled this situation.
By your own admission you neglected to take any affirmative steps to remedy this situation.
I hope your local DA is not following this, because by your own words you are guilty of Criminal Negligence and are liable for every penny of damage, every penny laid out by the various insurance companies, every medical service rendered and restitution for any pain, suffering and inconvenience rendered by your actions/lack of action.
And this is regardless of what your old buddy has to say about fault.
******* dumbass. Now ask the mods nicely to delete this thread before someone has a chance to use it against you.

 

[mopowers]

Wow, you just keep going.
OK, try and wrap your head around this.
By your own admission, you were aware of a potentially deadly mechanical situation.
By your own admission you have adequate mechanical skills to have repaired or at least disabled this situation.
By your own admission you neglected to take any affirmative steps to remedy this situation.
I hope your local DA is not following this, because by your own words you are guilty of Criminal Negligence and are liable for every penny of damage, every penny laid out by the various insurance companies, every medical service rendered and restitution for any pain, suffering and inconvenience rendered by your actions/lack of action.
And this is regardless of what your old buddy has to say about fault.
******* dumbass. Now ask the mods nicely to delete this thread before someone has a chance to use it against you.

You've gotta be kidding. Just because you are aware of a potentially deadly mechanical situation, and have the ability to remedy the situation, means there is a legal obligation to do so??? LOL Good luck with that! Obviously for some, there is a definite moral obligation, but a moral obligation and a legal obligation are two completely different things.

Not to sound heartless, but the old guy was aware of the issue. He did it to himself. End of story.

 

[Mopar-Man]

I recently heard of the same kind of thing happening to an old guy in AZ. Started the vehicle from outside, got knocked down and dragged, but he was killed. The story I heard was that the throttle return spring was set for WOT instead of idle!

I have never started a vehicle without being in the driver's seat with my foot on the brake. You never know if it was left in gear and the neutral safety switch doesn't work.

 

[whitepunkonnitro]

You've gotta be kidding. Just because you are aware of a potentially deadly mechanical situation, and have the ability to remedy the situation, means there is a legal obligation to do so??? LOL Good luck with that! Obviously for some, there is a definite moral obligation, but a moral obligation and a legal obligation are two completely different things.

Not to sounds heartless, but the old guy was aware of the issue. He did it to himself. End of story.

Look up the definition of Criminal Negligence.

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

Well Jason as you can tell, your in the midst of a tough crowd here. Truth is as mentioned earlier, hindsight is 20/20. Whats done is done. I am sure that had Jason had a crystal ball and knew this was going to happen, he would have done something about it. All you can do now is move on and help Tom out as best you can.

 

[ToMang07]

Look up the definition of Criminal Negligence.

Take your own advice.

OP was not responsible for mechanical repairs. Could he have done more? Sure. But I can see no way how he could be held responsible when he was never contracted for mechanical repairs.

 

[Aussiemopars]

Take your own advice.

OP was not responsible for mechanical repairs. Could he have done more? Sure. But I can see no way how he could be held responsible when he was never contracted for mechanical repairs.

That's pretty much it right there: he was not tasked to do the mechanical work and made the problems aware to the owner. Liability gone. Don't feel bad at all about it 1930. Ignore the trolls, trolls will do what they do. Just an unfortunate accident. Prayers for the old guy Tom.

 

[whitepunkonnitro]

You guys really have no idea how the law works.
The car was in the OPs possession when the problem made itself known.
Nothing, that came before matters.
The OP knew about the potentially deadly situation and even though he admits to being fully capable of remidying the situation with very simple action, he chose to do nothing but offer a verbal warning to a layman who may not be capable of understanding the gravity of the defect.
Negligence

 

[ToMang07]

You guys really have no idea how the law works.
The car was in the OPs possession when the problem made itself known.
Nothing, that came before matters.
The OP knew about the potentially deadly situation and even though he admits to being fully capable of remidying the situation with very simple action, he chose to do nothing but offer a verbal warning to a layman who may not be capable of understanding the gravity of the defect.
Negligence

Since you're clearly such an expert, please cite such law, or case law.

 

[whitepunkonnitro]

Since you're clearly such and expert, please site suck law, or case law.

Google is your friend, man. I've already spent more time in this thread than I can justify.
In the end, the only guy who makes out is the one selling the OP his beer

 

[ab7fh]

I had to look this up for myself and came up with this:

Automobile Mechanic Liability
When you leave your car with a mechanic for repair or service, you have a bailment relationship with the mechanic. As a result, has several legal duties. Specifically, the mechanic must:

• Treat your car with a reasonable standard of care until you pick it up.
• Make repairs in a skillful, careful, and workmanlike manner. He must have the ordinary skills of other mechanics.

• Inspect your car to make sure that it is not a danger to the driver or other driver and repair the car to make it safe for use.

• Give a written estimate and receive authorization before doing any repair work, in many states. In these places, even if the mechanic does excellent work and charges a reasonable price, the mechanic cannot recover for his work because he gave no estimate.
• Not engage in fraud, concealment, lowballing, or bait and switch.
• Not make unauthorized or unnecessary repairs.

- See more at: Automobile Mechanic Liability Lawyers | LegalMatch Law Library

 

[ToMang07]

Google is your friend, man. I've already spent more time in this thread than I can justify.
In the end, the only guy who makes out is the one selling the OP his beer

Boy was that a quick copout. So like I figured....you're shooting off at the mouth with no actual knowledge of the law. I'm not shocked.

 

[Mopar-Man]

I had to look this up for myself and came up with this:

Automobile Mechanic Liability
When you leave your car with a mechanic for repair or service, you have a bailment relationship with the mechanic. As a result, has several legal duties. Specifically, the mechanic must:

• Treat your car with a reasonable standard of care until you pick it up.
• Make repairs in a skillful, careful, and workmanlike manner. He must have the ordinary skills of other mechanics.

• Inspect your car to make sure that it is not a danger to the driver or other driver and repair the car to make it safe for use.

• Give a written estimate and receive authorization before doing any repair work, in many states. In these places, even if the mechanic does excellent work and charges a reasonable price, the mechanic cannot recover for his work because he gave no estimate.
• Not engage in fraud, concealment, lowballing, or bait and switch.
• Not make unauthorized or unnecessary repairs.

- See more at: Automobile Mechanic Liability Lawyers | LegalMatch Law Library

I work for a dealership and we WILL NOT allow an unsafe vehicle to leave without the owner signing a wavier. Yet even with that piece of paper, we could still get drug into court. Doesn't mean they would win though.

 

[PhilItUp]

A tragic accident. Hope that Tom has a speedy recovery. It's a lesson we can all learn from.

 

[1930]

Wow, you just keep going.
OK, try and wrap your head around this.
By your own admission, you were aware of a potentially deadly mechanical situation.
By your own admission you have adequate mechanical skills to have repaired or at least disabled this situation.
By your own admission you neglected to take any affirmative steps to remedy this situation.
I hope your local DA is not following this, because by your own words you are guilty of Criminal Negligence and are liable for every penny of damage, every penny laid out by the various insurance companies, every medical service rendered and restitution for any pain, suffering and inconvenience rendered by your actions/lack of action.
And this is regardless of what your old buddy has to say about fault.
******* dumbass. Now ask the mods nicely to delete this thread before someone has a chance to use it against you.

Tom is not and was not my buddy, he was referred to me by someone else that I had done work for. I dont get into friendly relationships with customers, I am in business to make money not to make friends and cant have it both ways.

Yes by my own admission I could have done more. I wasnt paid to do more, I was paid to do some minor bodywork ( which turned out to be pretty extensive bodywork ) and paint his truck, thats all.

Im not the least bit concerned with criminal charges

I have never started a vehicle without being in the driver's seat with my foot on the brake. You never know if it was left in gear and the neutral safety switch doesn't work.

I have and obviously Tom has, another reason for starting the thread in the first place. Dont do it!!

Well Jason as you can tell, your in the midst of a tough crowd here. Truth is as mentioned earlier, hindsight is 20/20. Whats done is done. I am sure that had Jason had a crystal ball and knew this was going to happen, he would have done something about it. All you can do now is move on and help Tom out as best you can.

Yes I would have done something different, I would have told the wife dont let him start the truck unless hes inside with his foot on the brake cause it will jump into gear possibly. Then I would have handed Tom a pacifier and rubbed his chin till he fell off to sleep.

Take your own advice.

OP was not responsible for mechanical repairs. Could he have done more? Sure. But I can see no way how he could be held responsible when he was never contracted for mechanical repairs.

No mechanical repairs, no more than what we agreed on. I am crystal clear on what I am being paid to do, I have that in writing, I have a copy and Tom has a copy. Tom signed it and I signed it, it was spelled out cause Ive learned in the past if you dont do it that way the customer is always gonna say why didnt you do this, I thought you were gonna do that.

That's pretty much it right there: he was not tasked to do the mechanical work and made the problems aware to the owner. Liability gone. Don't feel bad at all about it 1930. Ignore the trolls, trolls will do what they do. Just an unfortunate accident. Prayers for the old guy Tom.

Its no problem, thanks

You guys really have no idea how the law works.
The car was in the OPs possession when the problem made itself known.
Nothing, that came before matters.
The OP knew about the potentially deadly situation and even though he admits to being fully capable of remidying the situation with very simple action, he chose to do nothing but offer a verbal warning to a layman who may not be capable of understanding the gravity of the defect.
Negligence

I never said the remedy would have been a very simple action, I said the throttle cable was rusted down in its liner stuck wide open, should I take it upon myself to buy the guy a new accelerator cable and install it. I never said what was wrong with the trans, I didnt and wont look at it.

I know he understand the gravity of the defect now, him, me, you and about 400 other people that have read this thread. Every single one of us has learned a lesson.

Google is your friend, man. I've already spent more time in this thread than I can justify.
In the end, the only guy who makes out is the one selling the OP his beer

I dont drink beer, I dont smoke cigarretes, I am drug free. I am a clean cut ex military man that is trying to make an honest living and take care of his family. Sure Im not all apple pie but Im not a bad guy either.

I had to look this up for myself and came up with this:

Automobile Mechanic Liability
When you leave your car with a mechanic for repair or service, you have a bailment relationship with the mechanic. As a result, has several legal duties. Specifically, the mechanic must:

• Treat your car with a reasonable standard of care until you pick it up.
• Make repairs in a skillful, careful, and workmanlike manner. He must have the ordinary skills of other mechanics.

• Inspect your car to make sure that it is not a danger to the driver or other driver and repair the car to make it safe for use.

• Give a written estimate and receive authorization before doing any repair work, in many states. In these places, even if the mechanic does excellent work and charges a reasonable price, the mechanic cannot recover for his work because he gave no estimate.
• Not engage in fraud, concealment, lowballing, or bait and switch.
• Not make unauthorized or unnecessary repairs.

- See more at: Automobile Mechanic Liability Lawyers | LegalMatch Law Library

This is all bullshit in this case, lets see the car came to me with no door handles, no strikers, no latches, no door glass, no window glass of any type, no bed, no bumpers, no gauges, no secure seating arrangement, no seatbelts, no hood, no fenders, rad/ front end held to the truck via bungee cords, no front brakes hooked up, a battery tied down with a bungeecord to a piece of plywood sitting on the frame rails behind the cab, a plastic boat fuel tank again held onto the same piece of plywood sitting next to the battery, I can go on and on and on.

So tell me mister genius lawman, should I have taken care of all this as well.

I think you guys are losing your case and need to crawl back under the rock from whence you came.

I work for a dealership and we WILL NOT allow an unsafe vehicle to leave without the owner signing a wavier. Yet even with that piece of paper, we could still get drug into court. Doesn't mean they would win though.

I understand and agree but Ive worked for many a dealership and in 30 years Ive never had to work on someone 47 Dodge project car. Whole different setting.

 

[ramenth]

I had to look this up for myself and came up with this:

Automobile Mechanic Liability
When you leave your car with a mechanic for repair or service, you have a bailment relationship with the mechanic. As a result, has several legal duties. Specifically, the mechanic must:

• Treat your car with a reasonable standard of care until you pick it up.
• Make repairs in a skillful, careful, and workmanlike manner. He must have the ordinary skills of other mechanics.

• Inspect your car to make sure that it is not a danger to the driver or other driver and repair the car to make it safe for use.

• Give a written estimate and receive authorization before doing any repair work, in many states. In these places, even if the mechanic does excellent work and charges a reasonable price, the mechanic cannot recover for his work because he gave no estimate.
• Not engage in fraud, concealment, lowballing, or bait and switch.
• Not make unauthorized or unnecessary repairs.

- See more at: Automobile Mechanic Liability Lawyers | LegalMatch Law Library

In NY you make the customer aware of such safety issues with an estimate.

You have no legal duty to make those repairs by DMV law.

You don't make repairs without the customer's authority, either by having him or her sign the estimate to turn it into a repair order or getting voice authorization over the phone for agreed upon repairs.

If you make those repairs without customer authorization, you have now made those repairs for free.

If you refuse to allow the customer to take his or her vehicle until he or she has made those repairs, the cops will side with the customer as you have no right, under the law in NY, to keep someone from removable property.

A lot of shops will have refused services on the final invoice. You came in and bought four tires and the mechanic noticed the brakes were metal on metal. You refused to purchase new brakes. That will be noted on the final invoice as "suggested new rotors and pads... Customer refused."

You don't have an obligation under NY DMV to make repairs beyond what the customer is willing to pay for. You might have an ethical obligation to make the customer aware of those repairs. In this case, the OP did just that.

Your google post is a one size fits most hit, but doesn't necessarily jive with individual state's laws.

 

[1930]

Visited Tom this afternoon, he is doing much better, moved him to a rehab unit, expects to possibly be out and back home in 3 weeks, ( still a long journey ahead ) hes talking about selling the 47 and buying a low Dodge or Ford shortbed that he can get in and out of comfortably.

If anyone knows of anything locally, he gonna sell the 47 cheap just to get rid of it I think. I have no interest, too many projects unfinished on my end already.

 

[JAndrea]

Maybe you should've put a sticker on the radiator cap warning him not to open it when the engine is hot. Gimme a break. There's a measure of personal accountability when you own an older vehicle. You're the body guy, not the mechanic. The owner should've remedied the situation before cranking it over. He didn't. Oh well. **** happens.

There's no freakin way you'd be held responsible in the courts. I can't even believe that was brought up. Well, actually I can...

In my trade we have a safety thing----------We lock it out! Sad and hard to read but the car should have been disabled------------
I am hoping for the best for you and the old guy and his family. Lesson for us all---------------------

 

[JAndrea]

I'm assuming this was an automatic trans? What if it was a manual? Would everyone still be upset with the paint shop owner? Would he have been responsible if he or the guy's wife reached in and started the truck while it was in gear? My 1980 Jeep CJ with a manual trans didn't have a neutral safety switch... and it started right up and surged ahead, with no stuck throttle. Should every vintage manual have one? I don't think so. Not legally anyway.

My opinion is to disagree with people slamming this poor guy for not disabling the truck, or not having the guy sign off on a waiver.

So I guess now every person who runs a painting, apolstry, or glass shop has to do a full engine and brake system safety inspection with a signed safety contract upon entry AND exit of every car that comes through their shop? With this logic, you better do the safety check. Because it would be the shop owner's fault if, upon returning the vehicle, the parking break that was always faulty rolled down the driveway and injured (or worse) someone.

I commend those doing the safety checks etc, but I think you can safely and legally assume an owner intimately knows the mechanical faults of their own vintage vehicle... especially considering the age... and not have to worry, legally or otherwise, about signed contracts.

That said, I'm not a shop owner, but I have built a couple of custom motorcycles, with my own custom designed electrical systems, that were sold to people on opposite sides of the country and they did NOT have a neutral safety switch hooked up.

Lessons learned, however. Thanks for sharing.

Glad to hear it looks like he'll be ok!

 

[RustyRatRod]

3 months could be like 3 decades ago for an 80 year old. You did say you got paid VERY well?
Hindsight is 20/20
Prayers for Tom.

Kinda says it all to me right here.

I dont know Toms last name, didnt bother to get it, didnt care about it, just wanted to get paid and give him his moneys worth.

Didn't care. Just wanted to get paid. His exact words.

 

[JAndrea]

Kinda says it all to me right here.



Didn't care. Just wanted to get paid. His exact words.

Yeah... agree. These are not good words for a respectable shop.

 

[gdrill]

Tom is not and was not my buddy, he was referred to me by someone else that I had done work for.

lets see the car came to me with no door handles, no strikers, no latches, no door glass, no window glass of any type, no bed, no bumpers, no gauges, no secure seating arrangement, no seatbelts, no hood, no fenders, rad/ front end held to the truck via bungee cords, no front brakes hooked up, a battery tied down with a bungeecord to a piece of plywood sitting on the frame rails behind the cab, a plastic boat fuel tank again held onto the same piece of plywood sitting next to the battery, I can go on and on and on.

This pretty well sums it all up. A customer brought a project truck for some body work. It was not a vehicle that would be legally on the road upon leaving this shop. It's only my opinion, but you were in no way liable. Some of these other guys may have assembled the whole truck before it left, but not me. "Project truck" not running driving vehicle.

Glad Tom will be ok. Sounds like he is fully aware of what really happened here.