A500

[ktcnn94]

Working in my car now, I'm still in the rear working my way forward. I was planning on an overhaul for the 727 and a new torque converter. Been reading up on this A500 swap. What are these coming out of? What is the mod being done to the crossmember? I don't wanna use a computer so I'm gonna be looking for the hydraulic controlled unit.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Early 90s Dakotas
TrailBeast did this swap. He has a thread on it.Others also have done it, you don't have to be a trailblazer anymore.
Crossmembers are now being produced for 67 up cars
Some cutting is still required, plus a bit of custom fabrication.
To install one in an early A is gonna get ugly.

IMO these are great for a small engine car. You can run 3.91s to 4.30s, to get a fabulous starter gear, blast thru the gears, and still cruise in comfort.
A teener with a small cam, like a 262 is a good example.You could stuff the rear with 4.30s for a starter gear of 11.78, with which the teener will rocket off the line with, no need for a really big TC. It will burn thru the gears hitting 34 at 5000rpm, at the top of first,and will hit 61mph at the top of second, 94 at the top of direct, yet cruise at 65= 2250rpm! Nothing wrong with that! And the 262 cam will pull some really good mpgs with a 2200TC,ie stock 340 convertor. That's a win,win,win. Buy tires. Lots of tires.lol
With a big engine, or a big cam, there is less of a payback.These don't need a big starter gear, and cannot properly use the overdrive, with a smaller starter gear. I think a mild 360 could still use it, but with those 4.10s the cruise rpm of 2250 is not so good for cams bigger than about 270 advertised.It's still a great combo, It just makes a little more sense with a 270 or smaller cam.And yes, the 360 with the 11.78 starter gear and 270 cam will be a tire-fryer, invest in some traction aider, if you don't want to be buying tires every spring,lol.

I often think that a streeter just needs 3 gears; two closely spaced ones to hit 60 with, and then a third one, waaaaay over there to cruise with. Then you just put a matching rear in it to hit that 60 at your engines redline.
Ima thinking the ratios should be around; 3.40-2.27-1.00 and the rear end should be a 3.23. This will get you roadgears of 10.98, 7.33 and 3.23.Your mph at 5500 plus slip, would be 40,60,and 137lol, and cruising would be 60=2400. What more could a streeter want? 2 gears to 60, and cruising in comfort. Other combinations are,of course, possible, but you get the idea.This direct third gear would make overdrive unnecessary.
Everything should be made to fit into the 904 sized box.
Joe Average-Streeter could save thousands of dollars. Ok hundreds and hundreds,lol.Yeah that would be something.
If it was affordable, I would be first in line for something like that.
To get that 10.98 first gear with the current 904/999 options,you would need a rear gear of either 4.00s or 4.48s
To get that 7.33 second, you would need a rear of 4.77s or 5.07s.
I mean think about how often you use third in your automatic tranny, and what you use it for. Mostly it is just a cruiser gear, to be used after the revs get too buzzed up in second, right?
With the almost perennial favorite rear gear,the 3.55s; "too buzzed up" is about 50mph @ 3200. At that point do you care what the rpm drops too? Hardly. You just slam it into drive and mosey along. If it dropped to 1826 instead of 2205 would you care? Probably not. Would it be worth the fabulous zero to 60 sprint to run 3.23s in third?
To me it sure would.
I would take a 2+1 anytime over an A500.
But I'm dreaming, aren't I,lol. Like that's ever gonna happen.....

 

[ktcnn94]

Thanks A/J, I'm running a 340 that someone else built. I'm about to pull it apart and put another cam in it and check some other stuff out. Also running a 410 gear that I like that's why I'd rather do the A500. I read some of trailbeast's thread a while back and got distracted with the work in the rear of the car. I'll start looking around for a trans now and the crossmember. I'll go back to his thread and see about the drive pole and shifter linkage etc. thanks again.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Now that could be exciting.
The A500 has ratios of 2.74-1.54-1.00, as compared to the A904s 2.45-1.45-1.00. That is an 11.8% improvement in starter gear, and a 6.2% improvement in second gear. A cam is about 5% or 6% improvement, in power, often at 5000rpm or more, and sacrificing off-the-line torque to get it.
So the A500 is an easy way to get that bottom back.
These ratio improvements mean that with no other changes except the tranny, the engine will feel, in first gear, like it gained about 12% more cubic inches, and in second it will feel 6 % bigger. 12% is 40 cubic inches. 6% is 20 cubic inches
Unfortunately in your case, the new starter gear of 11.23 is gonna be a tire fryer in a hi-compression 340. So you are gonna need a traction aid.
And the 2.83 final drive will bring the cruise revs down to about 65=2285. So easy on the cam. Let the tranny do the work.
With those 4.10s, 65mph in second gear will be 5100 plus TC slip; so perhaps 5300rpm.This would be perfect for a cam that peaks around 5000 or a bit earlier. Perhaps a 262ish cam. You are of course free to select any cam, but it won't necessarily make you any quicker to 65.
For a Streeter,there would be no sense in having anything bigger, except to make you sound tuff.And to suck gas.
To be quicker with a bigger cam, there are just three ways to do that;
1) get a traction aid to limit your wheelspin, and
2) get a higher stall TC, and
3)lose weight
in that order,lol
Any improvement with the bigger cam,will only be in first gear,and mostly in the 60ft with the traction aid. Also,the bigger cam will need to be revved up higher in first, prior to the shift.
For example if you had a cam that peaks at 5600, it might want to rev to 6100. But the new tranny will demand at least 6800. That is 1200 over the peak to come in at 1800 under the peak. 6800 at the top of first gear will be 46 mph(with 5% TC slip). Then she gets to claw her way up from 3820@46, to [email protected]'s gonna be a bit of a tough climb.
That tranny will want a wider LSA than the more common 110*, to help the engine make torque to cover that huge 1-2 split of 56.2%.This will steal some absolute power, but increase the average power.
So like I said easy on the cam, if a streeter.

Whatever you do, it is sure to be exciting!! Good luck

 

[FredS]

I'll agree its a tire fryer with big motor, and lots of gear. Currently playing with 4.56s, and its just plain silly to launch. But my cruise RPMs aren't any worse than the 904 and 3.55s before.

 

[ktcnn94]

I'm interested in doing it, I've got to rebuild my 727 and buy a converter anyway. What's the cutoff year on the tranny's before they're computer controlled. A buddy of mine has one from a '99 6cyl truck. He's a little bit of a drive but he won't want much of anything for it.

 

[ktcnn94]

Early 90s Dakotas
TrailBeast did this swap. He has a thread on it.Others also have done it, you don't have to be a trailblazer anymore.
Crossmembers are now being produced for 67 up cars
Some cutting is still required, plus a bit of custom fabrication.
To install one in an early A is gonna get ugly.

IMO these are great for a small engine car. You can run 3.91s to 4.30s, to get a fabulous starter gear, blast thru the gears, and still cruise in comfort.
A teener with a small cam, like a 262 is a good example.You could stuff the rear with 4.30s for a starter gear of 11.78, with which the teener will rocket off the line with, no need for a really big TC. It will burn thru the gears hitting 34 at 5000rpm, at the top of first,and will hit 61mph at the top of second, 94 at the top of direct, yet cruise at 65= 2250rpm! Nothing wrong with that! And the 262 cam will pull some really good mpgs with a 2200TC,ie stock 340 convertor. That's a win,win,win. Buy tires. Lots of tires.lol
With a big engine, or a big cam, there is less of a payback.These don't need a big starter gear, and cannot properly use the overdrive, with a smaller starter gear. I think a mild 360 could still use it, but with those 4.10s the cruise rpm of 2250 is not so good for cams bigger than about 270 advertised.It's still a great combo, It just makes a little more sense with a 270 or smaller cam.And yes, the 360 with the 11.78 starter gear and 270 cam will be a tire-fryer, invest in some traction aider, if you don't want to be buying tires every spring,lol.

I often think that a streeter just needs 3 gears; two closely spaced ones to hit 60 with, and then a third one, waaaaay over there to cruise with. Then you just put a matching rear in it to hit that 60 at your engines redline.
Ima thinking the ratios should be around; 3.40-2.27-1.00 and the rear end should be a 3.23. This will get you roadgears of 10.98, 7.33 and 3.23.Your mph at 5500 plus slip, would be 40,60,and 137lol, and cruising would be 60=2400. What more could a streeter want? 2 gears to 60, and cruising in comfort. Other combinations are,of course, possible, but you get the idea.This direct third gear would make overdrive unnecessary.
Everything should be made to fit into the 904 sized box.
Joe Average-Streeter could save thousands of dollars. Ok hundreds and hundreds,lol.Yeah that would be something.
If it was affordable, I would be first in line for something like that.
To get that 10.98 first gear with the current 904/999 options,you would need a rear gear of either 4.00s or 4.48s
To get that 7.33 second, you would need a rear of 4.77s or 5.07s.
I mean think about how often you use third in your automatic tranny, and what you use it for. Mostly it is just a cruiser gear, to be used after the revs get too buzzed up in second, right?
With the almost perennial favorite rear gear,the 3.55s; "too buzzed up" is about 50mph @ 3200. At that point do you care what the rpm drops too? Hardly. You just slam it into drive and mosey along. If it dropped to 1826 instead of 2205 would you care? Probably not. Would it be worth the fabulous zero to 60 sprint to run 3.23s in third?
To me it sure would.
I would take a 2+1 anytime over an A500.
But I'm dreaming, aren't I,lol. Like that's ever gonna happen.....

Do you have any info on the crossmember you spoke of. Can't seem to locate anything on that.

 

[aaadave]

they built the 42rh (a500) from 89 through 95. 94 and 95 was reported to be the best. most are behind v6 dakotas. not sure on full size rams. i know they made a v8 version of the 42, but every v8 dakota iv'e found down here has the 46rh ( 727 size). i'm gonna use the v6 version in mine, but the way i drive, it should hold up ok. dave.

 

[ktcnn94]

they built the 42rh (a500) from 89 through 95. 94 and 95 was reported to be the best. most are behind v6 dakotas. not sure on full size rams. i know they made a v8 version of the 42, but every v8 dakota iv'e found down here has the 46rh ( 727 size). i'm gonna use the v6 version in mine, but the way i drive, it should hold up ok. dave.

I found a v6 truck fairly local, gotta buy the whole truck, it's been wrecked and I can get it for about $200. So I'll probably go that route. What are your plans for any upgrades and the crossmember?

 

[FredS]

mine was from a 1/2 ton 360 truck 92 I believe. Friend had the truck

 

[AJ/FormS]

6 cyl tranny won't fit.
And I have not seen an A500 TF6

 

[ktcnn94]

Oh m

6 cyl tranny won't fit.
And I have not seen an A500 TF6

Oh man. Glad I didn't go for that. I thought they were all the same. Ok I'll keep looking thank you for the info.

 

[aaadave]

as far as i know, the 3.9 and the 5.2 has the same bolt pattern. i think trailbeast used a 3.9 in his.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Well, unless it's a V6
But I haven't had eyes on one of those either,lol
What I'm saying is the 3.9V6 has the same bell house pattern as all SBMs. So it could be possible to put an A500 on a V6. Whether or not they were born with one I cannot say. But in any case, I would suspect that if Chrysler did built an A500 for V6 use, that it would have light duty parts in it. Pure conjecture.

 

[ktcnn94]

Well, unless it's a V6
But I haven't had eyes on one of those either,lol
What I'm saying is the 3.9V6 has the same bell house pattern as all SBMs. So it could be possible to put an A500 on a V6. Whether or not they were born with one I cannot say. But in any case, I would suspect that if Chrysler did built an A500 for V6 use, that it would have light duty parts in it. Pure conjecture.

That's is my understanding, it is the same trans but not as strong internals. I'm gonna keep looking at threads on here and elsewhere before I do anything. I'd like to find some updated info on the crossmember and driveshaft availability.

 

[aaadave]

the 42rh in v6 form did have less clutches than the v8 . in the tranny sticky above, i read where gdonovan used a 94 3.9 42rh in his. the v6 would'nt take alot of abuse without upgrades, but like the old 7 1/4 rear end, you could make it live if your easy on it.

 

[ktcnn94]

Probably won't be easy on it

 

[Killer6]

Well, unless it's a V6
But I haven't had eyes on one of those either,lol
What I'm saying is the 3.9V6 has the same bell house pattern as all SBMs. So it could be possible to put an A500 on a V6. Whether or not they were born with one I cannot say. But in any case, I would suspect that if Chrysler did built an A500 for V6 use, that it would have light duty parts in it. Pure conjecture.

What are You talking about? ALL A-500's were behind 3.9 V-6's, there were no V-8 Dakotas when the tranny was introduced. Nobody mentioned the TF6 AKA slanty...............
You need some coffee My friend!!

 

[AJ/FormS]

What are You talking about? ALL A-500's were behind 3.9 V-6's, there were no V-8 Dakotas when the tranny was introduced. Nobody mentioned the TF6 AKA slanty...............
You need some coffee My friend!!

Oh silly me, My 92 5.2 Dak had an overdrive in it, and I never even looked at it. I guess Alzheimer is coming early. I did replace the SG in it tho. What good is a 4x4 without a good working LSD!