Str8up
Well-Known Member
Hi everyone. I am posting this as I would like to share my experience with everyone else who may want to do the same project. please use this as information only. this is very long so please excuse my for that. I use this site to gather tons of info for myself and wanted to hopeful give back to others.
my project is a 1972 dodge dart swinger with a 318 engine and a 727 auto transmission.
I swapped out the automatic 727 for a four speed A833 from a 1973 plymouth valiant slant 6 car.
bought running parts car with 4 speed, This gave me the linkages, peddles, drive shaft, steering column and all the small parts. I tried to do this as inexpensive as possible. (Will sell parts car after to recover some cost.) It is up to you how much you want to spend and quality you require.
first off the slant 6 bellhousing, flywheel, clutch and starter will NOT fit the V8.
They are too small, the starter is the wrong # of teeth and is located at the top of the bellhousing on a 6 cyl.
The torque shaft/ Z bar will likely be too long from the 6 cyl, so you can modify it or get a new one. I modified mine.
clutch fork on 6 cly. is ball pivot style. and will not work with V8 bellhousing.
here is what I purchased.
V8 small block bellhousing
(rockauto) 1989 DODGE DAKOTA 3.9L 239cid V6 LUK LFW215 Flywheel (fits V8 internal/neutral balance engines) If you have a 360 or magnum you will need external balance flywheel. From my research it would by my opinion that zoom 50-3409 flywheel is the same or similar. confirm your fitment.
(Rockauto) BRUTE POWER 90338 [Clutch Kit] 10-1/2" x 1" x 23T Spline; Standard Replacement 10-1/2" Clutch; Lever Style.
(Brewers performance) FP848 CLUTCH FORK PIVOT 1968-1975 A-BODY
(Brewers performance) CF106R CLUTCH FORK 1968-UP A/F-BODY SMALL BLOCK, MOST DODGE TRUCKS
If you have the bellhousing casting # you can find the parts you need at brewers performance with that #.
Disassembly from slant 6.
Disconnect battery!!!!
First take lots of pictures of tranny, linkage connections and orientation of parts. even small things like clips and pivot connections.
Get parts bin, tape and marker. Mark each container with parts that came from where. I even marked which end of linkages went where. This will save losing or sorting through one bin of parts wondering what goes where later.
Remove and keep drive shaft as it is shorter than the automatic one. Also you will know the spline fits the 4 speed.
Disconnect wires to the backup switch and save harness.
Disconnect speedo cable and save.
Disconnect all linkages and remove shifter and mounting bracket.
Remove clutch fork. makes it easier to pull out gearbox.
Install tranny jack/support transmission.
Remove crossmember while supporting tail.
Remove gearbox from bellhousing. If you are not in need of bellhousing, clutch, etc from 6 cyl. don't bother removing them.
Remove steering column from car. this will also make pedal removement easier.
Remove clutch/brake pedal assembly with switches.
Installation preparation
Clean exterior of transmission and all parts. I cannot express the importance of cleaning, deburring, measuring and fitting parts before beginning to install something. It is a bit timing consuming but saves a lot of time and frustration later.
Drain oil and Remove side cover. Clean thoroughly, inspect, repair, replace parts as required. reinstall cover with new gasket. Don't lose small ball bearing and spring from cover.
Before jumping right into the swap there are some checks and measurements you should do before hand to ensure this swap is going to work.
Disconnect battery!!!!
Check all part numbers and descriptions of purchased parts and measure to ensure you got what you ordered or think you needed.
Slide V8 bellhousing onto the tranny gearbox.
If bellhousing does not go over the retainer or bellhousing opening is too large: then,
Measure bearing retainer cover O
. Located at front of gearbox on input shaft.
Measure bellhousing opening and compare to transmission bearing retainer cover.
(the retainer on my transmission was larger than the bellhousing opening.) the retainer was 5"1/8" and bellhousing was 4"1/8". If bellhousing is too large, buy or make spacer ring. if to small:
Three possible options:
1)- Bore some material out of bellhousing and turndown retainer to mate. do not try to just bore out bellhousing as it will not leave enough material around the mounting bolt holes on the bellhousing.
2)- Turndown the retainer to fit bellhousing. ( this is what I did.) only issue is that you have to turn it down right to the edge of the retainer bolt holes. I felt comfortable to do this as I think it leaves plenty of sealing surface and bolting force to seal it. Also I did not want to compromise the bellhousing or modify it to much encase I want to reuse it in the future.)
Once you turn down retainer, install it on tranny using threaded rod. do not install nuts.
Slide bellhousing on and bolt to gearbox.
Now install nuts on threaded rod. (nuts will not go past bellhousing. you will need to slightly notch bellhousing to fit over bolt heads on final assembly.)
With nuts against bellhousing, Mark bellhousing around nuts for notching.
Remove and notch bellhousing. Confirm fitment.
Using new Gasket, seal and bolts, install retainer to gearbox.
3) Find right size bellhousing or gearbox with right size retainer.
Measure depth and diameter of pilot hole in crankshaft. I think it should be approx. 1"1/4" + depth but please research that. Or if you have the clutch alignment tool . you can insert that into the crank for verification. If Crank is not drilled to fit you will need to correct this.
Measure outside diameter of pilot bushing to ensure it is a press fit into crankshaft.
Slide pilot bushing onto transmission shaft to check fitment.
Ensure flywheel is correct tooth count and correct bolt hole number and spacing.
Slide throwout/release bearing onto tranny to ensure fitment.
Attach clutch fork to release bearing and retaining clips to ensure fitment and this lets you know how to secure it when installing on tranny.
Slide clutch disc/friction plate onto tranny to ensure correct spline count and engagement. Clutch plate should be marked on one side that says "this side to engine crankshaft".
Install clutch assembly with friction disc onto the flywheel to ensure correct bolt hole alignment and clutch compresses/fits tight to flywheel. You need new bolts as 6 cyl. bolts are too small. new ones should be 7/16-20. u need to confirm for yourself.
Install shift linkage brackets back onto transmission. 3 brackets, the lowest one (reverse) . bolt on with long portion of bracket pointing up to top of tranny. the other two point down to the the floor.
Rotate tranny shaft by hand and shift levers if you can to ensure proper functioning.
Install flywheel to crankshaft. do not install clutch.
Install bellhousing to motor. This pre-check will also let you know if your exhaust or anything else will interfer. allows you to deal with issues ahead of time. the 4 speed bell housing I used had an extra little step on the bottom outside that made it to wide to fit between my exhaust. I simply trimmed them off.
I had the car on ramps and stands, but then I also jacked up the front to extend the suspension. That provided an extra inch or two of space between the tunnel / firewall and top of the bellhousing to work in.
Install starter to bellhousing. For the 130 tooth flywheel I used the 10 tooth starter that was on the 318 automatic. I think any ten tooth that bolts up will work. you can research that.
Using a screwdriver or other device. NOT your fingers. Push the starter gear out to engage into the flywheel. You may need to rotate the starter gear slightly to mesh. Have someone rotate the engine from the front while you watch the starter to ensure it meshes while rotating and does not bind. KEEP FINGERS AWAY FROM ROTATING PARTS. If it doesn't mesh, then stop and figure out why! Once completed then,
Remove starter and bellhousing. do not remove flywheel. Torque flywheel in place.
Measure distance from shop floor to center of crankshaft and record.
Remove steering column and brake assembly from V8 car. If you have a floor shift car already. I think you can use the column from that as they appear to be the same as the 4 speed column.
Install brake clutch assembly into V8 car with pedal linkage to Z bar / torque shaft.
Install steering column into V8 car.
Installation of 4 speed into V8 "A" body:
Install Pilot bushing into crankshaft. Verify by Using alignment tool to slide into the pilot bushing to ensure inside of bushing did not get mushroomed over and that tool slides in relatively easily.
With clutch alignment tool inserted in crankshaft, install friction plate and clutch assembly.
Remove alignment tool.
Install bellhousing.
Install starter
Install throwout / release bearing and clutch fork. Much easier to install fork now then when gearbox is on.
Place transmission on tranny jack and roll tranny under car.
Using measurement taken from shop floor to center of crankshaft. lift Tranny up so center height of input shaft is equal to center of crankshaft. you will also need to try and align/tilt and position the tranny to the same angle as engine and tunnel.
Slide tranny through bellhousing, release bearing and clutch spline. you will need to either have the tranny in gear or be able to rotate flywheel to get the splines to engage. takes some time and effort sometimes but if you did all your pre-assemble fitting it will go in.
Once shaft spline is engaged to clutch. It's just a matter of small adjustments to the height and angle of the tranny to get it all the way into the pilot bushing. It is not uncommon that once it is in the splines and the tip of the shaft is started on the pilot bushing to pull it in with the fastening bolts. If the tranny is still out too far to get the bolts in, then you need to work by hand to get it in further, do not force it or use longer bolts at this point. once you can get the stock bolts in, you must be very careful. If it takes any real force stop and re-evaluate what is wrong.
Remember to install all 4 bolts and tighten each a little at a time . keep it straight and square to the face of the bellhousing at all times. once on, torque in place.
Check shafts rotate and linkage brackets function. I also rotated the engine by hand to ensure nothing was binding.
Check clutch fork is still locked to throwout bearing.
Install crossmember to tranny and frame.
Connect reverse wiring
Connect speedo.
Install drive shaft.
Install Z bar torque shaft. There is a hole just above the frame rail behind driver's side wheel.
Insert and tighten ball pivot through the hole.
Install Z bar on pivot ball. you will likely notice it is to long to attach to the bellhousing if it was from a 6 cyl. car.
On mine it was to long and the bracket that attaches to the clutch fork rod was to short. You cannot just cut some off one side of the shaft. That will move the linkage brackets out of alignment. what I did was:
shorten the shaft by cutting some off the fender wall side of shaft. this way the bracket on the other side did not have to be removed and bolted right in place to bellhousing.
cut off the linkage brackets.
using flat bar, drilled it out to slide over the Z bar shaft.
With Z shaft installed in position. I rotated the flat bar around the shaft to where it aligned to the hole for the linkages.
marked where the linkage bracket should attach.
marked bracket to be welded to shaft. Draw two lines across shaft from fender side to flat bar and then two lines from bellhousing to fork bracket so you can weld it at the right angle.
Reinstalled Z bar and all linkages.
Test clutch pedal to ensure all moves freely.
At this point you can modify your tunnel to accommodate the shifter and linkages or wait until car is lowered. I have the hole in floor where auto shifter was so I'm doing that last. that is the point I am at now so the tunnel mod, I will leave up to your imagination.
Lower car to floor.
Fill transmission with oil.
Modify tunnel
Install shifter
Check, recheck, and verify everything is completed , tightened and free to operate.
Connect Battery.
If I have missed anything or mislead in anyway. please feel free to correct me or provide the correct info.
Again this is just my experience and is in no way intended to be correct, used as a how to: or instructional purposes. Please also remember to work safely and ensure the car is blocked and secured so that there is no chance of having an incident or accident.
Thanks to everyone whom I gathered info from to complete my project. I hope others will get some use out of this combined with their own and others knowledge and experiences.
tried uploading pics. not sure where they went.
STR8UP
my project is a 1972 dodge dart swinger with a 318 engine and a 727 auto transmission.
I swapped out the automatic 727 for a four speed A833 from a 1973 plymouth valiant slant 6 car.
bought running parts car with 4 speed, This gave me the linkages, peddles, drive shaft, steering column and all the small parts. I tried to do this as inexpensive as possible. (Will sell parts car after to recover some cost.) It is up to you how much you want to spend and quality you require.
first off the slant 6 bellhousing, flywheel, clutch and starter will NOT fit the V8.
They are too small, the starter is the wrong # of teeth and is located at the top of the bellhousing on a 6 cyl.
The torque shaft/ Z bar will likely be too long from the 6 cyl, so you can modify it or get a new one. I modified mine.
clutch fork on 6 cly. is ball pivot style. and will not work with V8 bellhousing.
here is what I purchased.
V8 small block bellhousing
(rockauto) 1989 DODGE DAKOTA 3.9L 239cid V6 LUK LFW215 Flywheel (fits V8 internal/neutral balance engines) If you have a 360 or magnum you will need external balance flywheel. From my research it would by my opinion that zoom 50-3409 flywheel is the same or similar. confirm your fitment.
(Rockauto) BRUTE POWER 90338 [Clutch Kit] 10-1/2" x 1" x 23T Spline; Standard Replacement 10-1/2" Clutch; Lever Style.
(Brewers performance) FP848 CLUTCH FORK PIVOT 1968-1975 A-BODY
(Brewers performance) CF106R CLUTCH FORK 1968-UP A/F-BODY SMALL BLOCK, MOST DODGE TRUCKS
If you have the bellhousing casting # you can find the parts you need at brewers performance with that #.
Disassembly from slant 6.
Disconnect battery!!!!
First take lots of pictures of tranny, linkage connections and orientation of parts. even small things like clips and pivot connections.
Get parts bin, tape and marker. Mark each container with parts that came from where. I even marked which end of linkages went where. This will save losing or sorting through one bin of parts wondering what goes where later.
Remove and keep drive shaft as it is shorter than the automatic one. Also you will know the spline fits the 4 speed.
Disconnect wires to the backup switch and save harness.
Disconnect speedo cable and save.
Disconnect all linkages and remove shifter and mounting bracket.
Remove clutch fork. makes it easier to pull out gearbox.
Install tranny jack/support transmission.
Remove crossmember while supporting tail.
Remove gearbox from bellhousing. If you are not in need of bellhousing, clutch, etc from 6 cyl. don't bother removing them.
Remove steering column from car. this will also make pedal removement easier.
Remove clutch/brake pedal assembly with switches.
Installation preparation
Clean exterior of transmission and all parts. I cannot express the importance of cleaning, deburring, measuring and fitting parts before beginning to install something. It is a bit timing consuming but saves a lot of time and frustration later.
Drain oil and Remove side cover. Clean thoroughly, inspect, repair, replace parts as required. reinstall cover with new gasket. Don't lose small ball bearing and spring from cover.
Before jumping right into the swap there are some checks and measurements you should do before hand to ensure this swap is going to work.
Disconnect battery!!!!
Check all part numbers and descriptions of purchased parts and measure to ensure you got what you ordered or think you needed.
Slide V8 bellhousing onto the tranny gearbox.
If bellhousing does not go over the retainer or bellhousing opening is too large: then,
Measure bearing retainer cover O
. Located at front of gearbox on input shaft.Measure bellhousing opening and compare to transmission bearing retainer cover.
(the retainer on my transmission was larger than the bellhousing opening.) the retainer was 5"1/8" and bellhousing was 4"1/8". If bellhousing is too large, buy or make spacer ring. if to small:
Three possible options:
1)- Bore some material out of bellhousing and turndown retainer to mate. do not try to just bore out bellhousing as it will not leave enough material around the mounting bolt holes on the bellhousing.
2)- Turndown the retainer to fit bellhousing. ( this is what I did.) only issue is that you have to turn it down right to the edge of the retainer bolt holes. I felt comfortable to do this as I think it leaves plenty of sealing surface and bolting force to seal it. Also I did not want to compromise the bellhousing or modify it to much encase I want to reuse it in the future.)
Once you turn down retainer, install it on tranny using threaded rod. do not install nuts.
Slide bellhousing on and bolt to gearbox.
Now install nuts on threaded rod. (nuts will not go past bellhousing. you will need to slightly notch bellhousing to fit over bolt heads on final assembly.)
With nuts against bellhousing, Mark bellhousing around nuts for notching.
Remove and notch bellhousing. Confirm fitment.
Using new Gasket, seal and bolts, install retainer to gearbox.
3) Find right size bellhousing or gearbox with right size retainer.
Measure depth and diameter of pilot hole in crankshaft. I think it should be approx. 1"1/4" + depth but please research that. Or if you have the clutch alignment tool . you can insert that into the crank for verification. If Crank is not drilled to fit you will need to correct this.
Measure outside diameter of pilot bushing to ensure it is a press fit into crankshaft.
Slide pilot bushing onto transmission shaft to check fitment.
Ensure flywheel is correct tooth count and correct bolt hole number and spacing.
Slide throwout/release bearing onto tranny to ensure fitment.
Attach clutch fork to release bearing and retaining clips to ensure fitment and this lets you know how to secure it when installing on tranny.
Slide clutch disc/friction plate onto tranny to ensure correct spline count and engagement. Clutch plate should be marked on one side that says "this side to engine crankshaft".
Install clutch assembly with friction disc onto the flywheel to ensure correct bolt hole alignment and clutch compresses/fits tight to flywheel. You need new bolts as 6 cyl. bolts are too small. new ones should be 7/16-20. u need to confirm for yourself.
Install shift linkage brackets back onto transmission. 3 brackets, the lowest one (reverse) . bolt on with long portion of bracket pointing up to top of tranny. the other two point down to the the floor.
Rotate tranny shaft by hand and shift levers if you can to ensure proper functioning.
Install flywheel to crankshaft. do not install clutch.
Install bellhousing to motor. This pre-check will also let you know if your exhaust or anything else will interfer. allows you to deal with issues ahead of time. the 4 speed bell housing I used had an extra little step on the bottom outside that made it to wide to fit between my exhaust. I simply trimmed them off.
I had the car on ramps and stands, but then I also jacked up the front to extend the suspension. That provided an extra inch or two of space between the tunnel / firewall and top of the bellhousing to work in.
Install starter to bellhousing. For the 130 tooth flywheel I used the 10 tooth starter that was on the 318 automatic. I think any ten tooth that bolts up will work. you can research that.
Using a screwdriver or other device. NOT your fingers. Push the starter gear out to engage into the flywheel. You may need to rotate the starter gear slightly to mesh. Have someone rotate the engine from the front while you watch the starter to ensure it meshes while rotating and does not bind. KEEP FINGERS AWAY FROM ROTATING PARTS. If it doesn't mesh, then stop and figure out why! Once completed then,
Remove starter and bellhousing. do not remove flywheel. Torque flywheel in place.
Measure distance from shop floor to center of crankshaft and record.
Remove steering column and brake assembly from V8 car. If you have a floor shift car already. I think you can use the column from that as they appear to be the same as the 4 speed column.
Install brake clutch assembly into V8 car with pedal linkage to Z bar / torque shaft.
Install steering column into V8 car.
Installation of 4 speed into V8 "A" body:
Install Pilot bushing into crankshaft. Verify by Using alignment tool to slide into the pilot bushing to ensure inside of bushing did not get mushroomed over and that tool slides in relatively easily.
With clutch alignment tool inserted in crankshaft, install friction plate and clutch assembly.
Remove alignment tool.
Install bellhousing.
Install starter
Install throwout / release bearing and clutch fork. Much easier to install fork now then when gearbox is on.
Place transmission on tranny jack and roll tranny under car.
Using measurement taken from shop floor to center of crankshaft. lift Tranny up so center height of input shaft is equal to center of crankshaft. you will also need to try and align/tilt and position the tranny to the same angle as engine and tunnel.
Slide tranny through bellhousing, release bearing and clutch spline. you will need to either have the tranny in gear or be able to rotate flywheel to get the splines to engage. takes some time and effort sometimes but if you did all your pre-assemble fitting it will go in.
Once shaft spline is engaged to clutch. It's just a matter of small adjustments to the height and angle of the tranny to get it all the way into the pilot bushing. It is not uncommon that once it is in the splines and the tip of the shaft is started on the pilot bushing to pull it in with the fastening bolts. If the tranny is still out too far to get the bolts in, then you need to work by hand to get it in further, do not force it or use longer bolts at this point. once you can get the stock bolts in, you must be very careful. If it takes any real force stop and re-evaluate what is wrong.
Remember to install all 4 bolts and tighten each a little at a time . keep it straight and square to the face of the bellhousing at all times. once on, torque in place.
Check shafts rotate and linkage brackets function. I also rotated the engine by hand to ensure nothing was binding.
Check clutch fork is still locked to throwout bearing.
Install crossmember to tranny and frame.
Connect reverse wiring
Connect speedo.
Install drive shaft.
Install Z bar torque shaft. There is a hole just above the frame rail behind driver's side wheel.
Insert and tighten ball pivot through the hole.
Install Z bar on pivot ball. you will likely notice it is to long to attach to the bellhousing if it was from a 6 cyl. car.
On mine it was to long and the bracket that attaches to the clutch fork rod was to short. You cannot just cut some off one side of the shaft. That will move the linkage brackets out of alignment. what I did was:
shorten the shaft by cutting some off the fender wall side of shaft. this way the bracket on the other side did not have to be removed and bolted right in place to bellhousing.
cut off the linkage brackets.
using flat bar, drilled it out to slide over the Z bar shaft.
With Z shaft installed in position. I rotated the flat bar around the shaft to where it aligned to the hole for the linkages.
marked where the linkage bracket should attach.
marked bracket to be welded to shaft. Draw two lines across shaft from fender side to flat bar and then two lines from bellhousing to fork bracket so you can weld it at the right angle.
Reinstalled Z bar and all linkages.
Test clutch pedal to ensure all moves freely.
At this point you can modify your tunnel to accommodate the shifter and linkages or wait until car is lowered. I have the hole in floor where auto shifter was so I'm doing that last. that is the point I am at now so the tunnel mod, I will leave up to your imagination.
Lower car to floor.
Fill transmission with oil.
Modify tunnel
Install shifter
Check, recheck, and verify everything is completed , tightened and free to operate.
Connect Battery.
If I have missed anything or mislead in anyway. please feel free to correct me or provide the correct info.
Again this is just my experience and is in no way intended to be correct, used as a how to: or instructional purposes. Please also remember to work safely and ensure the car is blocked and secured so that there is no chance of having an incident or accident.
Thanks to everyone whom I gathered info from to complete my project. I hope others will get some use out of this combined with their own and others knowledge and experiences.
tried uploading pics. not sure where they went.
STR8UP
