A833 NP A body trans ID help & intro.

[Twister73]

OLD BOLT AND KNUCKLE BUSTER NEWBIE HERE. Been wrenching since 1963. Bought a new 1968 Roadrunner 383 4 speed when I was in the Army, followed by a 1970 Duster 340 4 speed car....of course I wish I still had them !!! Did a resto 70 Duster 4 speed 25 years ago, but divorce forced sale. Last 25 years I got into Super Bikes, but recently bought and all original 1973 Duster Twister Cali car, 318 3 speed. Just picked up a NP A833, A body 4 speed trans and need help ID'ing this little gem. Body # H3 over 0.99129 and no #'s on pad. Side cover #C? 95884 followed by BIG letter Z. casting tag X11. Casting #'s are hard to read. I'm thinking this may be a "replacement" trans? There's mismatched bolts on the side cover, so someone been inside. Ball detent type. Opened it up and lube is very clean, gears in great shape, and nice even wear pattern on everything. Turns and bench shifts smooth.

 

[Twister73]

Pics for my A833 ID?

 

[AJ/FormS]

Well; it's not an overdrive, so should be a regular 2.66-1.92-1.40-1.00 box
I had my tenth birthday in summer of 63; yur old,lol. I started wrenching in in 68/69 still in highschool.
Welcome to the mayhem.

Your Twister 318 is gonna feel the loss of first gear torque multiplication, but the next two gears will more than make up for it.

 

[rumblefish360]

Well; it's not an overdrive, so should be a regular 2.66-1.92-1.40-1.00 box

Your Twister 318 is gonna feel the loss of first gear torque multiplication, but the next two gears will more than make up for it.

Ahhhhhh, it ain’t that bad, unlike the ... 3.09 first gear of the OD box. I’d like to find one of those 2.66 - 1 gear transmissions.

 

[Twister73]

Ahhhhhh, it ain’t that bad, unlike the ... 3.09 first gear of the OD box. I’d like to find one of those 2.66 - 1 gear transmissions.

Well I wont feel it for long. I will be pulling the 318 & 3 speed trans and preserving it, as the Twister is all original, interior and Paint. In a couple months I'll be looking for a 360 71'-72' with the thicker cylinder walls. Will either build it strong or go with a 408 stroker kit. Gonna have me some fun!

 

[rumblefish360]

Well I wont feel it for long. I will be pulling the 318 & 3 speed trans and preserving it, as the Twister is all original, interior and Paint. In a couple months I'll be looking for a 360 71'-72' with the thicker cylinder walls. Will either build it strong or go with a 408 stroker kit. Gonna have me some fun!

The 3spd and 4spd OD have the same first gear.
Thick wall engines are generally a myth.
Sonic check!
I had an early 340 tank with only a .030 over bore. Some cylinder walls were under .050.
Sonic check any block you get.

 

[Twister73]

The 3spd and 4spd OD have the same first gear.
Thick wall engines are generally a myth.
Sonic check!
I had an early 340 tank with only a .030 over bore. Some cylinder walls were under .050.
Sonic check any block you get.

OK, I do not have a 4 speed OD box, It's a normal box and am curious around what year it is. There is so much more info available now, then my last project 20 years ago. In my day, most 4 speed trans had numbers stamped on the id pad. Nothing on mine. Guy I got it from didn't know its origin unfortunately.
Rob, of course I'll sonic check. Core shift has alot to due with this also, and all blocks are not created equal. This is not my first rodeo.
My last 360 build, the machine shop checked the cyl. walls and told me .120 was not a problem, as he had done many 1971-72 at .100 to .120. I ran mine pretty hard and never had any problems. I believe RustyRatRod here said the same. If I do a 408 I'll just clean it up, as the cylinder side loading is greater with a stroker. At 71 I'm just here to have fun and learn what I've missed out on for 20 years.

 

[AJ/FormS]

I’d like to find one of those 2.66 - 1 gear transmissions.

Hey,Rob; I'm somewhat familiar with your engine combo as I have one almost identical to it; so I offer this. My second combo,with the Hughes
223/230/110 cam, as for gears, was able to pull anything,even down to 2.76s; but was happiest with a starter gear between 9 and 10 to 1; which made it, 2.66x3.55; Once moving, it didn't much care.
But with the 10/1 starter, it was a stinking tractor. With a rebalanced OEM 340 flywheel, she was a more or less dump it and go deal, with just a lil blip of the throttle. I only used the 3.55s because they trapped 65=5500 in second gear; and they were a lil snappier at 30 mph in second gear. Downshifting there, into first, put me at just around peak torque, and instant tirespin.

So when that cam dropped lobes, I gave up some bottom-end with the next bigger cam; a
230/237/110. Immediately I felt the bottom-end torque loss; which I solved with the Commando box (3.09-1.92-1.40-1.00). I was able to run 3.23s with this, but she liked the 3.55s better. And I still liked the 65=5500 gearing, which was actually 7000/7200, cuz it still wouldn't hook.....lol, cuz I'm not set up for straight-lining.
So I retimed the cam from in at 106, to 108. But that made very little difference.

I liked that 223cam a lot, and have fond memories of it. The 230cam, for bottom end,took a bit of work,(Commando low 3.09x3.55s=10.97) to be as the 223cam had been (with the standard low2.66x3.55=9.44).
The 230cam lost fuel-economy,but the top end is a lot stronger than I expected,all-in-all a good trade.
And no matter what, this combo is way more fun than the first cam had been, which was the Mopar 292/292/108. By seat of the pants reckoning, this Hughes 230 feels as strong or stronger on the top than the 292. But with the 292 I could definitely feel the hit when peak was approaching; it hit like a small 2-stroke dirt bike. That 292 did not like the 2.66x3.55s off the line, taking quite a bit of revs to move out normally. Once moving it was ok, but the power up top,didn't seem to want to fall off, so when moving out,I would mostly run it to 6800....or more; which with 3.55s and second gear was over 80 mph. So all-in-all not a very good street combo. I took that 292cam out before the end of the first summer, and I no longer miss it.
BTW, with each cam, I readjusted the Scr to keep the pressure around 180psi with the alloy heads. And the Q has always run between a max of .039 with the 223 to a min of ~.028 with the 292, and is currently at .034 with the 230.

As I recall, you are running a similar sized cam in the 22x's, so .... just want to say, that I really like the Commando box.

 

[AJ/FormS]

to Twister
Check out Rob's build; that is gonna be a real nice street engine.
Don't underestimate the 360 cubic inches for a streeter. With cams from 220 to 235 that's just a 3 size range, you can go from more bottom end to more top-end, than the stock or even near-stock chassis can handle.
And just recently, YellowRose revealed that 170 psi can be run with iron heads and pumpgas, so that's news to most of us.......... That should make an interesting combo.
There are several engine builders on this forum too, so check out the Sponsor forum.
As for;

It's a normal box and am curious around what year it is.

I think 1970 was the last year of that box. In 71 they changed to steel forks, different brass rings, and the rooster-comb cover.
The first year I can't remember; probably early 60s, but I don't think it came to the A-bodies 'til a lil later.

973 Duster Twister Cali car, 318

The 73 318, I call a smoggerteen, cuz the compression was dropped to 8/1. In this condition they are fine with the stock cam and gears.
But the instant you jump to a performance cam, the cylinder pressure tanks, and then yur looking at slipping the clutch longer and more gear. In my experience, the smoggerteen at 8/1 likes 3.91s at least with that 2.66 low trans. This is even before you slide a cam into it! The 3.09 Commando low offers 16% more TM in first gear, so can use 16% less rear gear or down to 3.23s. The penalty for that is that all the other gears are similarly 17% lower numerically.So you might have to rev first a lil higher before shifting. At WOT, you don't get into third until 5000 rpm which is 65 mph with 27s so not a big deal. All-in-all a fair deal. To recap; stock smoggerteen,the Commando 3.09 low box, with 3.23s, and valve springs to allow 5000 without losing control.
3.55s are a lil better than 3.23s; the only penalties being 5000=59mph, and cruising moves from 65=2610 to 60=2650. Surprisingly, my smoggerteen did pretty good on gas at these Rs...... with a lean-tuned TQ, headers/dual exhaust, and a Smallport dualplane intake; Ignition timing is a key.

 

[Twister73]

OK, I do not have a 4 speed OD box, It's a normal box and am curious around what year it is. There is so much more info available now, then my last project 20 years ago. In my day, most 4 speed trans had numbers stamped on the id pad. Nothing on mine. Guy I got it from didn't know its origin unfortunately.
Rob, of course I'll sonic check. Core shift has alot to due with this also, and all blocks are not created equal. This is not my first rodeo.
My last 360 build, the machine shop checked the cyl. walls and told me .120 was not a problem, as he had done many 1971-72 at .100 to .120. I ran mine pretty hard and never had any problems. I believe RustyRatRod here said the same. If I do a 408 I'll just clean it up, as the cylinder side loading is greater with a stroker. At 71 I'm just here to have fun and learn what I've missed out on for 20 years.

Boy did I get lucky! The guy I got my trans from chased down the original owner. It came out of a 1968 Dodge Dart GTS-340. So, any guys around here that can give me info on why the id pad is unmarked???
Thanks for the 318 info, but it's getting pulled and preserved. It's the original and only 54,000 miles. 360 is going in its place with the 4 speed box. I'll check out Rob's build for sure.

 

[rumblefish360]

@AJ/FormS
Hey,Rob; I'm somewhat familiar with your engine combo as I have one almost identical to it; so I offer this.[/QUOTE]

As always with the long winded reply that is chock full of excellent information, and very much so appreciated,
that would be the wife’s build not mine ...

BUT!!!! Yaaaa!

She does want to make a move to a manual transmission. (Believe me! The women can drive a stick like no body’s biz!) This is really good information. She’ll read this and let it sit in the brain for a bit before she makes a final choice.

My particular build (‘71 Duster) I’m trying to squeak out this season will have that still born thread 340 engine I started. I’m almost done with. (Cheap left over parts 340 rebuild) Since I don’t have the parts or cash required for the actual target build I want to do, yet, it is getting a manual trans with an OD unit as the only trans I currently have ready -ish for use. (Minor parts missing...)
The 904 needs a converter and driveshaft. The manual needs small parts. Ka-Ching cheaper!

Again, your writings come in handy. Rear gear choices are 3.55 (assembly required) 4.10 & 4.88’s. They all suck somewhere along the line.

Then there’s the crank issue with my 360 .... ugh!

Thanks AJ!

 

[rumblefish360]

Boy did I get lucky! The guy I got my trans from chased down the original owner. It came out of a 1968 Dodge Dart GTS-340. So, any guys around here that can give me info on why the id pad is unmarked???

Passenger side, a machined flat area towards the front of the trans, middle-ish or slightly lower than the middle.

 

[AJ/FormS]

The machine marks seem to indicate that the pad has not been fudged with. So, take a razorblade and cut off the paint. If there are numbers on there, the paint will stay in the ruts, and there ya go.
But if not, then I would guess it's a factory warranty replacement. IIRC those early cars had a 5yr/50,000 mile warranty. While the A833 might just be the toughest 4-speed trans ever built,long before that, the brass rings can easily by tore up by a teenager with no M/T experience, or even just a faulty freeplay adjustment; especially those early narrow-strut ones.
But, if you replace the brass when they give up, I think the rest will go 250,000 or more. The next thing to go is the cluster pin, but it doesn't fail catastrophically, and you can flip it around up to 3 times. So looks like a half a million with occasional bearing replacements, is easily doable.

 

[Twister73]

Passenger side, a machined flat area towards the front of the trans, middle-ish or slightly lower than the middle.

Thanks Rob,
Yep, just like the pic I posted....nada, no #'s. But now I know it came out of a 1968 Dart GTS-340. Quick visual is that it feels and looks good except shifting forks. Very small amount of metal in the bottom, extremely fine, like metalic paint fine. The paint on this I believe is factory/or replacement and thin. Razor-ed the pad and nothing but swirl marks from the factory fly cutter.
Before I bought the Twister a month ago, I looked on the net for how many Twisters were built and got zip. Maybe its this old techno-dino not searching right....anyone like to comment?

 

[Marcohotrod]

it came out of a 1968 dart 340-in what year did it come out? for the first time? second time? I have a 1970 340 block that came out of a 1969 Dart in 1975 - no numbers stamped on side. original owner told me he did a lot of racing and popped the 1969 engine with 45,000 miles and got a warranty shortblock in 1970.

 

[Twister73]

it came out of a 1968 dart 340-in what year did it come out? for the first time? second time? I have a 1970 340 block that came out of a 1969 Dart in 1975 - no numbers stamped on side. original owner told me he did a lot of racing and popped the 1969 engine with 45,000 miles and got a warranty shortblock in 1970.

Well now, I don't have direct contact with the 68' dart owner so info is limited from the guy I got the trans from. Car was side-lined for some reason, and parted out. Original owner was not to talkative. These cars had 5/50 warranty back then, so i assume the trans was replaced during warranty period with a "replacement trans". The dealer labor cost was probably greater than the new trans cost. I've had a bunch of these transmissions over the years and none that I can remember was not numbered. They are out there as you know, and they are unicorns.
Ted

 

[Twister73]

Been missing for a while due to getting hit by a semi rolling about 90 on i10 interstate in Arizona 3 years ago. Concussion, neck injury, and reconstructive surgery to arm and shoulder. Lots of painful physical therapy but happy to get to 85%. While taking my 833 apart I discovered that someone dropped the the trans and on the bottom is a spider crack silver dollar size. Found a aluminum OD case and tail housing that was converted to 307 main bearing. Looks to be excellent machine work and I didn't pay much for it. Hopefully all my regular 833 internals will drop in. Anybody here seen a conversion like this? Strength wise, do you think this will handle the 360 # 5302006 block "roller"

I'm building into a 408???

 

[Righty Tighty]

Been missing for a while due to getting hit by a semi rolling about 90 on i10 interstate in Arizona 3 years ago. Concussion, neck injury, and reconstructive surgery to arm and shoulder. Lots of painful physical therapy but happy to get to 85%. While taking my 833 apart I discovered that someone dropped the the trans and on the bottom is a spider crack silver dollar size. Found a aluminum OD case and tail housing that was converted to 307 main bearing. Looks to be excellent machine work and I didn't pay much for it. Hopefully all my regular 833 internals will drop in. Anybody here seen a conversion like this? Strength wise, do you think this will handle the 360 # 5302006 block "roller"

View attachment 1716081635

View attachment 1716081636

View attachment 1716081636 I'm building into a 408???

I'm curious to know this as well. I've read some threads here where some folks say you'll definitely blow it up, while others say you'll be fine as long as you bush the countershaft bore and keep it on the street.

Hopefully we can get some knowledgeable people to chime in here.

 

[66fs]

Been missing for a while due to getting hit by a semi rolling about 90 on i10 interstate in Arizona 3 years ago. Concussion, neck injury, and reconstructive surgery to arm and shoulder. Lots of painful physical therapy but happy to get to 85%. While taking my 833 apart I discovered that someone dropped the the trans and on the bottom is a spider crack silver dollar size. Found a aluminum OD case and tail housing that was converted to 307 main bearing. Looks to be excellent machine work and I didn't pay much for it. Hopefully all my regular 833 internals will drop in. Anybody here seen a conversion like this? Strength wise, do you think this will handle the 360 # 5302006 block "roller"

View attachment 1716081635

View attachment 1716081636

View attachment 1716081636 I'm building into a 408???

Bush the counterbores. That is the weak link. Slop in a transmission is bad. The cheapest and best way to tighten and strengthen an O/D is to swap the main case for a standard main case and use a standard countershaft with either front bearing. A reconditioned 307 main case only runs about $125.

 

[Marvelous Mopar Cuda340]

Is the OD transmission not desirable? Was looking at picking one up super cheap to swap out the auto.

 

[66fs]

Is the OD transmission not desirable? Was looking at picking one up super cheap to swap out the auto.

It is desirable, like everything, you just need to fix any weak points.

 

[Marvelous Mopar Cuda340]

What kind of HP are you talking for there to be weak points? Didn’t really follow your previous reply. Bushings in the counterbores, 307 main case? Like a cast iron one? Forgive my lack of knowledge but definitely want to make sure I do research before buying something. The motor is stock as of now with a mild cam. Plan on building the 340 to 400 hp in the future.

 

[66fs]

What O/D are you looking at? There are a few variations. I know of one person who installed the O/D gear set and mainshaft in an original cast iron case behind a 440 and is happy with it. I have run them in my cars, but I typically only run a 273.

 

[Marvelous Mopar Cuda340]

I’m not sure which ones yet, he has 5 of them. Waiting on pictures and numbers from the transmissions. Just want to make sure I’m not getting something that I would be better off waiting for the right set up

 

[66fs]

I would suggest a 30 spline output shaft. Make sure it is an A-Body trans. I swap to the early, without a Vin Pad, standard cast iron 307 front bearing main case in any O/D I'm going to run in one of my cars. Pictures for reference. Passon Performance has them as well. Pull the side cover and look for damage. Get Passon's book on rebuilding 4 speeds, Chrysler A-833 Transmissions — How to Rebuild and Modify . That will familiarize you with the different combinations.

Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists

www.brewersperformance.com

Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists

www.brewersperformance.com