A833 Speedo Gear Drive Question

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70SwingerGuy

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Since my speedo was out on my '70 Swinger, I put a new speedo drive in her A833. Since I dont know my diff ration for sure, I did the tire/driveshaft rotation trick and figure I have a 3.55 installed; I measured the circumference of the shaft and laid a piece of masking tape on it measured out in inches, it came around 3 full turns, and stopped somewhere between 3.55 and 3.73, probably around the 6-6.5 mark, so I just put it off to rough measurements and called it 3.55. With a tire height of 25 1/4"(again, rounded down to 25" for the chart lookup), Brewers chart tells me I need a 37 tooth drive, so thats what I put in her. The speedometer is slow, so I double checked the numbers tonight and I got the same as the first time.
So rather than play an expensive game of guessing the gear, should I go with a higher or lower tooth drive to increase the speed approx 5-10 mph?
 
If the speedometer is slow, you would want to decrease the number of teeth on the gear. I would drive the car off GPS (phone has one) at 60 mph, and then reference the speedometer in the car. We can do the math from there to account for discrepancies in tire size/gear ratio/speedometer calibration.

Speed Chart 2.jpg
 
Thanks Dan, its much appreciated! Ill do that for sure and send you a message. Upside is you get another sale out of me...haha :)
 
To get an exact number, you just calculate the speed difference you want, in percent, and get that same percent difference in number of teeth.
If your speed difference is 5%, then your tooth count difference will also be 5%.
If your speed-O is indicating slow, to speed it up you will need fewer teeth, and vice versa.
5% on 37 teeth is just 1.85 teeth. Now look on the chart at 25" tire, and see that the difference from 3.55s to 3.73 is 2 teeth; see what I mean. The chart assumes that you know the exact rear-end ratio. and it assumes your tires fall on the sizes indicated, BUT a size difference of .5 inches in diameter is actually 1.5 inches in circumference which is what the charts calculations are based on. Therefore, sometimes, as in your case, you would have to guess at a tooth count between the chart numbers, of 25 and 26.
Thus not knowing the exactness of anything, you are looking at a range of Speed-O gears on the chart, between 36 and 39
Whereas, the Percent method will tell you EXACTLY how many teeth to add or subtract to whatever is in there right now.

But I gotta tell ya; from 3.55s to 3.73s is a 5% difference, so maybe you want to revisit your differential ratio calculation cuz 5% at 65 mph is 3.25 mph. So if you got that wrong, the chart won't work for you ............ but the PerCent difference method will.

FWI
The chart is based on increments of 1" tire diameters, which is actually based on the circumferential measurement, in the which, each inch in diameter is actually 3.1416 inches in circumference.
So then
when the chart shows 25 inches, it is hiding 78.54 inches of circumference. and
when the chart shows 26 inches, it is hiding 81.68 inches of circumference.
But, your 25.25 inch measurement is hiding 79.33 inches of circumference
Why is this important?
Well how did you arrive at 25.25 inches. I can almost guarantee that you guessed. What if you're out just .25 inch? That will be .785 inch in circumference, which is what the chart is based on. So then, what you measured as 78.33, could be ~ .785 in either direction or
From 79.12 to 78.55 which is a range of exactly 2%. So right out of the gate, your already about 3/4 of a tooth off the chart, just by the error of .25 inch..
To get a better more accurate number, you have to determine the exact CIRCUMFERENCE of your tire, and convert that number to diameter by dividing it by 3.1416. And you can't be using a metal tape wrapped around the tire! which will NEVER be accurate. You need a cloth tape, or a calibrated section marked out on the floor, with some way to determine a start/finish indicator on the tire. Some guys put a daub of grease on the tire, then roll it out straight, then measure between the smears. Yeah good luck with that, as you are still gonna have to estimate, which is a proper gentlemanly way of saying, guessing..
Suppose you did use the circumferential measurement and arrived at 79.33 inches. Dividing that by 3.1416, gets you 25.25 inches. Ok, so in this case you got lucky.
The point is this;
When determining the diameter of your tires, with a tape measure, accurately enough for this purpose, it is easy to fall 1 tooth off what you need.
One tooth is only ~1.75 mph@ 65 mph.
Now, if you bumble thru a speed-trap at what you think is a safe 68 mph, but the cop's radar says 70, are you gonna get a ticket?
IDK, but in Canada the copsareplicks.
 
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@AJ/FormS , wow, thats a lot of information, thank you for that :)
I actually didnt guess when I came to the height of my tires,(but I did round off so that I could use the chart) I took one off and stood it against the garage wall and using a square, marked the height against the wall and measured from the ground up, same way you would measure the height of one of your kids with their back against the wall :) That method gave an actual measurement of 25 5/16. I just measured the circumference of the tire like you suggested, and got 80" as the circ. Doing the math gives a height of 25.5", so given that Im not using exact laboratory scientific methods for measuring, Id say thats pretty close :) .
I dont know how much more accurate I could be with the gear ratio, I measured the circumference and using masking tape, marked it out in one in increments with a half way point which would give me a 3.55 ratio should it stop there. Twice it gave me a slightly more than 3.55, but slightly less 3.73.
My next step, is when it stops raining to do an actual speed test against a GPS and see where Im standing like @Dan Brewer suggested.
Thanks again for all the info.
 
I dont know how much more accurate I could be with the gear ratio, I measured the circumference and using masking tape, marked it out in one in increments with a half way point which would give me a 3.55 ratio should it stop there. Twice it gave me a slightly more than 3.55, but slightly less 3.73.
Well slightly this and slightly that is an error of up to 5%.
And another 1/4 inch error is another .78 error in circumference.

The point I was trying real hard to make,
was how prone to error your method is.
Not the Chart, it is fine.
Whereas the Percent difference never doesn't work, and is accurate as your GPS app is at measuring a mile.
 
Well slightly this and slightly that is an error of up to 5%.
And another 1/4 inch error is another .78 error in circumference.
Yup, I agree, a little bit here, a little bit there can throw things out a lot
The point I was trying real hard to make,
was how prone to error your method is.
Yup, I totally know how its error prone, but Im not going to take apart a perfectly good diff just to find out what ratio it is for sure when its not absolutely necessary, and unfortunately, unless someone can tell me another way of finding out an aprox ratio, thats all I can do. I'm sure we all can agree that the 8 3/4 would be much more user friendly if it only had a cover on the outside like the other Mopar diffs. Dunno why Ma Mopar did that, Im sure theres some technical reason that I dont know about.
Not the Chart, it is fine.
The program is rock solid. The program is sound.
Whereas the Percent difference never doesn't work, and is accurate as your GPS app is at measuring a mile.
And thats why Im going to rely on @Dan Brewer 's expertise :)
 
@Dan Brewer Do speedometer pinion adapters in 833's have to be adjusted according to what number teeth on the pinion, like a 904/727 does? It's been so long since I fooled with one in an 833, I've forgotten! If they do adjust the same, it's easy to chew the plastic teeth up on the pinion if you just slap it in there wrong without setting it properly.
 
@Dan Brewer Do speedometer pinion adapters in 833's have to be adjusted according to what number teeth on the pinion, like a 904/727 does? It's been so long since I fooled with one in an 833, I've forgotten! If they do adjust the same, it's easy to chew the plastic teeth up on the pinion if you just slap it in there wrong without setting it properly.
Yes. 66 & newer A833's use the same adapter/gear as the 727, 904, etc. Yes, you have to make sure they are indexed properly for the gear being used.

20210519_144019.jpg
 
it might be an issue with your speedometer....go on a nice freeway cruise and check your odometer compared to mile markers over say 20-30 miles to make sure the discrepancy between the speedometer and odometer match. I have slightly taller than stock tires on back (225/70R14). my speedometer bounces some at lower speed, and is consistently 10% high (70MPH indicated is 63 via GPS), while my odometer reads 3% low (33 miles indicated was 34 miles actual), which is what I would expect with the tires I have vs. the original D78/14 height....
 
@Dan Brewer , so I did a speedo check tonight against a gps that I had downloaded onto my phone, seems my speedo is 10 mph slow according to the gps, I took readings at 60 50 and 40 on the gps, and at every one, my speedo is 10 mph slow.
What do you think??
 
50/60=0.83 x 37 = 30.83. So by the math anyway, 31 T gear should get you close.
 
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