Adjustable strut rods making terrible sound 74 Swinger

[72bluNblu]

Common style Heim ends all rattle after use. You can hear them very well when driving next to the guard rail with Caltracs or any other suspension use. Get in a sprint car and tell me they don't make noise.

This thread isn't about your radius rods or a sprint car, it's about adjustable strut rods on a Mopar. I frankly don't care what your sprint car does, it's not relevant.

After 70k miles of street use the strut rods on my Challenger still don't make any noise. Over 30k miles on my Duster, no noise at all from the strut rods. And it's not because I'm deaf, I hear the spring sliders on the rear of my Duster clicking occasionally. And I could hear the heims on the UCA's of my Challenger clicking when they wore out.

The adjustable strut rods on these cars shouldn't make any noise. If they are, the heims are worn out and need replaced.

Sorry guys, don't get all cantankerous. I drive a truck and sometimes can't get a minute to get on here. The metal bushings are installed correctly. As far as the sound goes, well it sounds like squeaking tbh not really sure if its metal on metal or something else. I'am just guessing at this point because I have never used or have any experience with these adjustable strut rods. Now if y'all hang on I'll get a pic of how the pivots are angled. Also could I get a direct link to the adjustment procedure? I wasn't able to find it.. Thanks !

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Are you sure it's the strut rods? If you have installed poly LCA bushings you may need to lubricate them better. What did you install with the suspension rebuild?

 

[George Lawicki]

This thread isn't about your radius rods or a sprint car, it's about adjustable strut rods on a Mopar. I frankly don't care what your sprint car does, it's not relevant.

After 70k miles of street use the strut rods on my Challenger still don't make any noise. Over 30k miles on my Duster, no noise at all from the strut rods. And it's not because I'm deaf, I hear the spring sliders on the rear of my Duster clicking occasionally. And I could hear the heims on the UCA's of my Challenger clicking when they wore out.

The adjustable strut rods on these cars shouldn't make any noise. If they are, the heims are worn out and need replaced.



Are you sure it's the strut rods? If you have installed poly LCA bushings you may need to lubricate them better. What did you install with the suspension rebuild?

Lca are rebuilt with stock rubber oem stuff no poly. The entire suspension is oem rubber stock stuff. Only thing not is the strut rods. The strut rods are brand new.its definitely the strut rods

 

[autoxcuda]

Lca are rebuilt with stock rubber oem stuff no poly. The entire suspension is oem rubber stock stuff. Only thing not is the strut rods. The strut rods are brand new.its definitely the strut rods

But all that suspension stuff was rebuilt at the same time, correct?

Try spraying some good penetrating lube on the passenger side spherical ball joint in there. Drive and see if goes away.

Then spray on drivers side. Drive and see if goes away.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Notice there's a pretty big difference from one side to the other the number of threads exposed on the heim joints. Just an observation.

 

[plumkrazee70]

 

[72bluNblu]

Lca are rebuilt with stock rubber oem stuff no poly. The entire suspension is oem rubber stock stuff. Only thing not is the strut rods. The strut rods are brand new.its definitely the strut rods

Or something that the adjustable strut rods are doing to the rest of the suspension.

Steve and Rob both make good points. The strut rods don’t necessarily have to be set at exactly the same length side to side, factory tolerances and all that. But realistically they should be pretty close, and yours are definitely different. If one is the wrong length it could be causing the LCA to bind up, which could cause the noise. Or worse, that rubber bushing could be torn. All it takes is for the rubber bushing to be tightened at the wrong ride height.

When I adjust the length of my strut rods I remove the shocks and remove the torsion bar adjusting bolts and plates, that’s it, everything else fully assembled like it will go down the road. Then I cycle the suspension through it’s full range of travel, bump stop to bump stop, to check for binding and resistance. With rubber bushings you will have some resistance, since the bushing has to flex for the suspension to move. And that resistance will increase at the extreme ends of travel since you’re forcing the bushing to flex more. But it shouldn’t bind up at all.

I try to set the strut rods like everything else, so they’re neutral at ride height. So the heim is centered on the ball at ride height. Usually that tips the top of the heims to the center of the car, like negative camber. But you also have to check that the body of the heim doesn’t run out of clearance at the extreme ends of travel, because depending on your ride height and bump stops your ride height may not be perfectly in the middle of the range of travel, so you may not get to be perfectly neutral at ride height to keep it from running out of clearance at the ends.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

This thread isn't about your radius rods or a sprint car, it's about adjustable strut rods on a Mopar. I frankly don't care what your sprint car does, it's not relevant.

After 70k miles of street use the strut rods on my Challenger still don't make any noise. Over 30k miles on my Duster, no noise at all from the strut rods. And it's not because I'm deaf, I hear the spring sliders on the rear of my Duster clicking occasionally. And I could hear the heims on the UCA's of my Challenger clicking when they wore out.

The adjustable strut rods on these cars shouldn't make any noise. If they are, the heims are worn out and need replaced.



Are you sure it's the strut rods? If you have installed poly LCA bushings you may need to lubricate them better. What did you install with the suspension rebuild?

You can't stand when ever anyone suggests something to look at that you don't think of. Especially me?

Heims loosen pretty quick from suspension shock no matter where they are used. And they rattle. When used, They should always be contained between metal or use a washer to stop them from coming apart. There are also tapered bushings for applications where side travel is needed.

Been using heims on many projects and cars not only sprint cars. Ask anyone with Caltracs about the noise they hear. Because they rattle doesn't mean they are bad. It is the nature of the beast. Some have grease fittings and some do not. There are many different quality heims. You Richard Cranium must have the best as always. Grow the **** up already. You and your multiple " fucken Quotes "

 

[George Lawicki]

The suspension was rebuilt by myself at the same time. And actually following the instructions from ya'll here. lol The guy that did do my alignment did use molly grease. Iam going to go in the garage and play around. My guess it's the position of the joints. The sound is undeniable coming from the ends of the rods up front and nothing else

 

[MopaR&D]

Friend with a Jeep Cherokee XJ fabricated his own front suspension arms using heim joints, it is extremely noisy and uncomfortable to ride in, every one of those heims rattles. It's basically a dedicated off-road rig that happens to be street legal so the suspension gets beat on pretty hard and the heims routinely get exposed to sand and rock dust.

I've had those same adjustable strut rods as the OP for about 5 years now and at least 10k miles and they make no noise whatsoever. When I installed them I took the time to get the angle of the front pivot just right.

Heims wear out and get slop when they're subjected to hard impacts; due to the location and forces experienced by the strut rods in a classic Mopar that doesn't really happen. The only forces they're subjected to are from braking and turning. They don't experience any 'axial shock loads' like they would if they were used in the control arms. They also wear from getting dust and water into the joints which then "grinds" them down and creates slop. The location of the front pivot point on Mopar strut rods keeps them pretty clean, they also don't have a very wide range of motion in normal driving.

 

[George Lawicki]

The strut rods are brand new. I took them off tonight inspected everything reinstalled them making god damn sure they were installed properly. Messed with the pivit angle several times and still have the same issue..Sooo I am out of ideas here.

 

[MopaR&D]

The strut rods are brand new. I took them off tonight inspected everything reinstalled them making god damn sure they were installed properly. Messed with the pivit angle several times and still have the same issue..Sooo I am out of ideas here.

That sucks, any chance you could post a video of what's going on? One thing to try, put a few drops of light oil (like silicone lube) on the heims and see if the noise goes away.

 

[Phreakish]

The strut rods are brand new. I took them off tonight inspected everything reinstalled them making god damn sure they were installed properly. Messed with the pivit angle several times and still have the same issue..Sooo I am out of ideas here.

You said it sounded like squeaking. You're 100% certain the lca pivots were tightened at ride height and not in the air?

I have the qa1, not the pst, so theres a difference in how it attaches at the lca for me. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Might also be worth tightening the rods a little more (I'd probably start with 2 turns) to pull on the lca temporarily and see if the sound changes. If it doesn't change at all, I'd start looking at other parts. Sway bar bushings, etc.

 

[72bluNblu]

You can't stand when ever anyone suggests something to look at that you don't think of. Especially me?

Heims loosen pretty quick from suspension shock no matter where they are used. And they rattle. When used, They should always be contained between metal or use a washer to stop them from coming apart. There are also tapered bushings for applications where side travel is needed.

Been using heims on many projects and cars not only sprint cars. Ask anyone with Caltracs about the noise they hear. Because they rattle doesn't mean they are bad. It is the nature of the beast. Some have grease fittings and some do not. There are many different quality heims. You Richard Cranium must have the best as always. Grow the **** up already. You and your multiple " fucken Quotes "

I'm sure your sprint car rattles like a handful of buckshot in a tin can, but that isn't relevant to a set of adjustable strut rods. These aren't Caltracs, they are not radius rods, and the application absolutely matters. And if you were familiar with how the PST strut rods are constructed, you would know how the heims are "contained" and mounted and that they don't have grease fittings.

And the OP is talking about a squeaking noise, not a rattle or click. The PST heims are teflon lined, so, they shouldn't rattle, click or squeak. Especially since the strut rods should have some light tension on them if they're properly adjusted.

Believe what you want, but I've put 70k+ miles on the same set of heims on the adjustable strut rods on my Challenger. They do not rattle, they do not click, they do not make any noise. And they don't have grease fittings, and I do not grease them. They also don't have boots, so, just bare heims open to the elements.

The suspension was rebuilt by myself at the same time. And actually following the instructions from ya'll here. lol The guy that did do my alignment did use molly grease. Iam going to go in the garage and play around. My guess it's the position of the joints. The sound is undeniable coming from the ends of the rods up front and nothing else

Any chance you could take a video? Or at least a few pictures showing how the ends of the strut rods are assembled? A squeak means something is rubbing or binding up.

You said it sounded like squeaking. You're 100% certain the lca pivots were tightened at ride height and not in the air?

I have the qa1, not the pst, so theres a difference in how it attaches at the lca for me. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Might also be worth tightening the rods a little more (I'd probably start with 2 turns) to pull on the lca temporarily and see if the sound changes. If it doesn't change at all, I'd start looking at other parts. Sway bar bushings, etc.

I have both styles of the adjustable strut rods, the one's on my Challenger are the QA1 style with the double adjuster, the one's on my Duster are the PST style that uses the bolt to go through the LCA. It shouldn't make a difference if everything is torqued to spec, beyond the double adjuster version being easier to adjust.

 

[George Lawicki]

I'll take pics of my suspension when I get home. Yes the LCA pivots were tightened at ride height. I did notice this...bouncing the suspension doesn't seem to create the squeek however braking say from 10mph does. To me, it seems more pronounced on the p side but it's definitely on both sides

 

[Ricks70Duster340]

I'll take pics of my suspension when I get home. Yes the LCA pivots were tightened at ride height. I did notice this...bouncing the suspension doesn't seem to create the squeek however braking say from 10mph does. To me, it seems more pronounced on the p side but it's definitely on both sides

I have exactly the same issue with mine. I have QA1 LCA's and the PST strut rods. Mine sound like a squeak/rattle at lower speeds but especially after applying the brakes. Almost like when the weight of the car is moved toward the front something gets loose and rattles. I tried QA1 strut bars but the LCA end of the bars was not 5/8" and it was impossible to stop the rattling. PST bars fit as they should.

 

[72bluNblu]

I'll take pics of my suspension when I get home. Yes the LCA pivots were tightened at ride height. I did notice this...bouncing the suspension doesn't seem to create the squeek however braking say from 10mph does. To me, it seems more pronounced on the p side but it's definitely on both sides

Pictures would really help. Did you install the metal pillow blocks so the shoulder is toward the K frame? If the shoulder is backward the end of the strut rod mount could be moving in the K.

I have exactly the same issue with mine. I have QA1 LCA's and the PST strut rods. Mine sound like a squeak/rattle at lower speeds but especially after applying the brakes. Almost like when the weight of the car is moved toward the front something gets loose and rattles. I tried QA1 strut bars but the LCA end of the bars was not 5/8" and it was impossible to stop the rattling. PST bars fit as they should.

Ok, you have no idea if you have the same problem. The OP has a squeak, not a rattle.

And here’s the deal, torqued properly the 5/8” thing shouldn’t matter. At all. Not even a little.

If you have installed QA1 and PST strut rods, changed nothing else, and had the same noise with both, it’s not the strut rods. The odds that two brand new sets of strut rods, from different manufacturers, with different designs, make the same exact noise is just about nil.

 

[Ricks70Duster340]

Ok, you have no idea if you have the same problem. The OP has a squeak, not a rattle.

OK, based on his comments sure sounded similar to my problem, except for the squeak vs rattle.

And here’s the deal, torqued properly the 5/8” thing shouldn’t matter. At all. Not even a little.

Tightened to spec, same rattle. If the QA1 strut rod end fits into the LCA loosely, then what does it tighten against to keep it from rattling? The strut rod shoulder presses against the strut loop on the LCA and the head of the bolt from the other side is all that it tightens against. Sorry, don't understand that. I will admit ignorance here, but I tried working with it and it just did not get happy.

If you have installed QA1 and PST strut rods, changed nothing else, and had the same noise with both, it’s not the strut rods. The odds that two brand new sets of strut rods, from different manufacturers, with different designs, make the same exact noise is just about nil.

I actually replaced everything on the front end at the same time, including getting Dr Diff front disc brake spindles & calipers. There is a little rattling from the driver side but most comes from the passenger side. As the OP said, bouncing the car does not produce the noise. In my case, when the car is in motion at low speeds I hear it. Coming to a stop the car sounds like a rattle trap. Everything seems tight. Verified the brake pad tabs were firmly against the caliper slide so they would not rattle. That was the first thing I checked.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

[QUOTE="72bluNblu, post: 1973979415,


Ok, you have no idea if you have the same problem. The OP has a squeak, not a rattle.


[/QUOTE]



No one knows but you! LOL

 

[72bluNblu]

OK, based on his comments sure sounded similar to my problem, except for the squeak vs rattle.


Tightened to spec, same rattle. If the QA1 strut rod end fits into the LCA loosely, then what does it tighten against to keep it from rattling? The strut rod shoulder presses against the strut loop on the LCA and the head of the bolt from the other side is all that it tightens against. Sorry, don't understand that. I will admit ignorance here, but I tried working with it and it just did not get happy.


I actually replaced everything on the front end at the same time, including getting Dr Diff front disc brake spindles & calipers. There is a little rattling from the driver side but most comes from the passenger side. As the OP said, bouncing the car does not produce the noise. In my case, when the car is in motion at low speeds I hear it. Coming to a stop the car sounds like a rattle trap. Everything seems tight. Verified the brake pad tabs were firmly against the caliper slide so they would not rattle. That was the first thing I checked.

A "squeak" and a "rattle" are caused by two different issues. Squeaks are generally caused by friction, two parts sliding against one another. A rattle is caused by something intermittently hitting something else, two parts coming into mechanical contact and then separating. Both can be caused by a loose part, but it's two different issues.

You're thinking about the QA1 strut rods all wrong. The double adjuster goes through the LCA, the shoulder of the double adjuster sits against the LCA and the nut on the other side sets the tension of the shoulder of the adjuster against the LCA. You can literally install just the double adjuster by itself with the LCA on the bench and torque the rear nut and never touch it again, it's not part of the adjustment process. Now the strut rod barrel spins on the other end of the double adjuster and the jam nut sets that. But the shoulder of the double adjuster against the LCA is unaffected, only the torque on the nut changes that tension. And properly torqued that double adjuster will not move or spin and it certainly shouldn't rattle unless it's completely loose.

Based on your description, I seriously doubt it's your strut rods making that noise. But since you changed everything in the suspension at once, you will have to through the entire suspension one part at a time to figure out where it's coming from.

No one knows but you! LOL

I didn't say I knew what was making his noise. But he doesn't have any idea if he has the same problem, and he shouldn't assume it's the same as the OP's because their descriptions are completely different.

You certainly have no idea either, just like you don't understand that a teflon lined heim joint that's under tension shouldn't make any noise. Once again, just because you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done. 100k street miles with adjustable strut rods, and mine don't make noise. And they shouldn't.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

A "squeak" and a "rattle" are caused by two different issues. Squeaks are generally caused by friction, two parts sliding against one another. A rattle is caused by something intermittently hitting something else, two parts coming into mechanical contact and then separating. Both can be caused by a loose part, but it's two different issues.

You're thinking about the QA1 strut rods all wrong. The double adjuster goes through the LCA, the shoulder of the double adjuster sits against the LCA and the nut on the other side sets the tension of the shoulder of the adjuster against the LCA. You can literally install just the double adjuster by itself with the LCA on the bench and torque the rear nut and never touch it again, it's not part of the adjustment process. Now the strut rod barrel spins on the other end of the double adjuster and the jam nut sets that. But the shoulder of the double adjuster against the LCA is unaffected, only the torque on the nut changes that tension. And properly torqued that double adjuster will not move or spin and it certainly shouldn't rattle unless it's completely loose.

View attachment 1715953400

Based on your description, I seriously doubt it's your strut rods making that noise. But since you changed everything in the suspension at once, you will have to through the entire suspension one part at a time to figure out where it's coming from.



I didn't say I knew what was making his noise. But he doesn't have any idea if he has the same problem, and he shouldn't assume it's the same as the OP's because their descriptions are completely different.

You certainly have no idea either, just like you don't understand that a teflon lined heim joint that's under tension shouldn't make any noise. Once again, just because you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done. 100k street miles with adjustable strut rods, and mine don't make noise. And they shouldn't.

Come to the north east and see how long that teflon lasts.

A "squeak" and a "rattle" are caused by two different issues. Squeaks are generally caused by friction, two parts sliding against one another. A rattle is caused by something intermittently hitting something else, two parts coming into mechanical contact and then separating. Both can be caused by a loose part, but it's two different issues.

You're thinking about the QA1 strut rods all wrong. The double adjuster goes through the LCA, the shoulder of the double adjuster sits against the LCA and the nut on the other side sets the tension of the shoulder of the adjuster against the LCA. You can literally install just the double adjuster by itself with the LCA on the bench and torque the rear nut and never touch it again, it's not part of the adjustment process. Now the strut rod barrel spins on the other end of the double adjuster and the jam nut sets that. But the shoulder of the double adjuster against the LCA is unaffected, only the torque on the nut changes that tension. And properly torqued that double adjuster will not move or spin and it certainly shouldn't rattle unless it's completely loose.

View attachment 1715953400

Based on your description, I seriously doubt it's your strut rods making that noise. But since you changed everything in the suspension at once, you will have to through the entire suspension one part at a time to figure out where it's coming from.



I didn't say I knew what was making his noise. But he doesn't have any idea if he has the same problem, and he shouldn't assume it's the same as the OP's because their descriptions are completely different.

You certainly have no idea either, just like you don't understand that a teflon lined heim joint that's under tension shouldn't make any noise. Once again, just because you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done. 100k street miles with adjustable strut rods, and mine don't make noise. And they shouldn't.

Heim never made good teflon ends. They are very old and Teflon was the future. If you have heim ends they are old and they rattle. and squeak. Ballistic ends are good and there are other good Rod ends but all are different quality. Heim is a cheap rod end. They are throwaways and they rattle and they all squeak after some miles. some squeak when installed.

 

[72bluNblu]

Come to the north east and see how long that teflon lasts.

Heim never made good teflon ends. They are very old and Teflon was the future. If you have heim ends they are old and they rattle. and squeak. Ballistic ends are good and there are other good Rod ends but all are different quality. Heim is a cheap rod end. They are throwaways and they rattle and they all squeak after some miles. some squeak when installed.

Well, if the teflon in a teflon lined heim joint is gone, it is in fact worn out by definition. Shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp. You're supposed to change them when that happens. I don't know what being in the north east has to do with anything, since none of your cars spend any amount of time on the street anyway. And regardless, worn out is worn out anywhere. If that happens in a few thousand miles or tens of thousands of miles, it's still worn out.

"heim" is not a company. Heim joints/rod ends are made by lots of different manufacturers, so, your wild generalizations are irrelevant. None of the heim joints on any of my cars are made by "heim".

And just like a ball joint or a tie rod end, if they're worn to the point that they're making noise, they're junk.

70k street miles on the QA1 heims on my Challenger. 70,000. They don't make noise. If yours do, you're behind on replacing them. This is basic stuff, someone with your experience should know that.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Well, if the teflon in a teflon lined heim joint is gone, it is in fact worn out by definition. Shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp. You're supposed to change them when that happens. I don't know what being in the north east has to do with anything, since none of your cars spend any amount of time on the street anyway. And regardless, worn out is worn out anywhere. If that happens in a few thousand miles or tens of thousands of miles, it's still worn out.

"heim" is not a company. Heim joints/rod ends are made by lots of different manufacturers, so, your wild generalizations are irrelevant. None of the heim joints on any of my cars are made by "heim".

And just like a ball joint or a tie rod end, if they're worn to the point that they're making noise, they're junk.

70k street miles on the QA1 heims on my Challenger. 70,000. They don't make noise. If yours do, you're behind on replacing them. This is basic stuff, someone with your experience should know that.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Watch the video and pay attention to info about the Rod End companies. Heim is an old company that made Rod ends.

 

[72bluNblu]

You have no clue what you are talking about. Watch the video and pay attention to info about the Rod End companies. Heim is an old company that made Rod ends.

So? There used to be a company called Heim, neat. I'll file that in my completely useless information folder.

None of the rod ends in this thread were made by Heim, and none of them should make noise. Changes nothing.

 

[George Lawicki]

Hey guys here are the videos I took. It was hard to mount the phone to the car. Good thing I have phone insurance Anyways I still can't figure it out.

 

[72bluNblu]

Hey guys here are the videos I took. It was hard to mount the phone to the car. Good thing I have phone insurance Anyways I still can't figure it out.

That's not your strut rods at all.

The frequency of the rattles and noises don't match up with the suspension movement most of the time. I mean sure, when you hit a large bump you get noises, but, when everything is smooth there are still noises. And whatever if making that noise is LOOSE.

Time to check for other stuff that is loose. Have you checked your brakes at all?

Also, just FYI, you need to do something different with your ride height/torsion bars/bump stops. You're bottoming your suspension in slow speed, basic driving situations.

 

[George Lawicki]

Yes I agree it does not appear to be the strut rods. I have not checked the brakes. I did not notice the suspension bottoming out