Advice on budget a/body bracket car suspension?

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BBDODGE

BBDODGE

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Hi,i am wondering what to use in the setup of my a/body.The dart is for strip only. I am on a budget like most and will need to start with mono leafs and caltracs,adjustable shocks and 295/65/15 et's or slicks.Car already has a little tub work and relocated springs,welded in chassis connectors and 8 point cage with kirky seats.What should i be doing up front to help with hook up,are the really light .810 torsion bars the way to go or can i use something a little bigger.Has rack/pinion steeing and thought 90/10 shocks,tube top control arms and factory bushes ect would do.car is to run fenderwell headers.Engine 440 world block based stroker.I have a set of .870 bars that are well used small block or will they be to stiff,trying to keep it simple but want to spend the money i have on the right parts the first time.Want to lift the tyres a little but be stable at speed.Plenty of u guys must have this down pat and i would be thankfull for your advice thanks.John.........
 
Larry Shepard has it down pat. I dont get it that people insist on ignoring the MP manuals.
 
If you are re-donig the front suspension I would replace the uppers with tubular. They are lighter, have the urethane bushings which will rotate easier and smoother, and allow for a lot more positive caster so the car is more stable in a straight line. A trick for the urethane is to remove the inner sleeve, and the bushing from the outer sleeve, and use antiseize on both, then reassemble. You might be amazed at how smoothly and easily they twist after that. I'd use the thinnest T bars you can and preload the heck out of them. Otherwise, the lightest wheel and tire package and lightest disc brakes and you're doing pretty good. Also have a real alignment guy align the car for racing.
 
Larry Shepard has it down pat. I don't get it that people insist on ignoring the MP manuals.

I agree wholeheartedly as the torsion bar suspension is practically the best in this world
 
I was referring to the SS rear suspension. Nowhere does shepard recommend Cal Tracs. All you need is SS springs and a snubber. It would seem to me less costly than mono leafs and cal tracs. You did mention budget.
 
StrokerScamp said:
I was referring to the SS rear suspension. Nowhere does shepard recommend Cal Tracs. All you need is SS springs and a snubber. It would seem to me less costly than mono leafs and cal tracs. You did mention budget.
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I don't think they had Cal Tracs when that book was made. Did they?
 
Burntorange70 said:
I don't think they had Cal Tracs when that book was made. Did they?
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What's your point? My point is that cal tracs are unneeded as long as everything is set up correctly. A properly set up SS rear suspension does the same as cal tracs.....maybe better. Just because something has had millions spent in marketing doesn't mean it's better. That was my point.
 
I have SS spring son my 3400 # 73 dart sport. Car runs in the low 12's and high 11's depending on weather, gear ratio, tire size, etc..

I have MP SS springs, 8.75" rear, pinion snubber and Comp. Eng racing shocks (long ones for a B-Body car). It leaves straight and rarely ever spins a tire ( only when there is water or oil on track!).

I have a several friends with MOPARs, some use the caltracs and others use MP SS springs. The general wisdom is:

"A car with Caltracs and monoleaf springs is more consistant, while the car with MP SS springs & a snubber is faster"

I am not sure if this is true, but it seems to be what I have observed in 4 years of drag racing my car.

As far as economy goes, Caltracs alone are around $350 which is about what is cost to nuy new MP SS springs, an adjustable pinion snubber and a set of CE racing shocks for my car 4 years ago! SS springs are the economical way to go and will work for a car well into the 10's!!

Bob
 
Pick your poison is my suggestion.

If I had a choice to spend money on SS springs or stock springs with a Cal Trac set up, give me cal tracs.

I know of and have worked with many cars that had SS springs and moving to cal tracs, the cars picked up as much as .13-15 in 60's times. Most were improvements in the .04-.08 range. I think two cars didn't pick up anything switching and my opinion was the package was wrong forward of the rear axle.

Walk around the Stock eliminator pits and see how many of those guys run SS springs, not many, if any.

I hear the new SS springs are not the most durable and wear out quickly. Look at the Greg Luneak - Launcher springs if you want to stay with a leaf only rear set up.

I build my own Cal Trac style set ups so I save a few bucks!
 
BBDODGE said:
Hi,i am wondering what to use in the setup of my a/body.The dart is for strip only. I am on a budget like most and will need to start with mono leafs and caltracs,adjustable shocks and 295/65/15 et's or slicks.Car already has a little tub work and relocated springs,welded in chassis connectors and 8 point cage with kirky seats.What should i be doing up front to help with hook up,are the really light .810 torsion bars the way to go or can i use something a little bigger.Has rack/pinion steeing and thought 90/10 shocks,tube top control arms and factory bushes ect would do.car is to run fenderwell headers.Engine 440 world block based stroker.I have a set of .870 bars that are well used small block or will they be to stiff,trying to keep it simple but want to spend the money i have on the right parts the first time.Want to lift the tyres a little but be stable at speed.Plenty of u guys must have this down pat and i would be thankfull for your advice thanks.John.........
Click to expand...

this isn't exactly my idea of a budget "a-body" but to each his own. use the skinniest torsion bars you can buy and some 12 way qa-1's. 90-10's are a pain to adjust but they are cheap for your budget build.
 
For a budget, run the SS springs, the snubber. In the front go with the slant torsion bars. for shocks, use standard heavy duty hydraulic shocks (NOT gas charged) in the rear. MP sells the 2" longer shocks for the SS springs. Drill holes on the front shocks and drain the fluid. It's all in the MP chassis manual. cars have been runnin in the 8s for bout 40 years using these methods. Just cause somethin is new, sporty and expensive dont mean it works any damned better. yall are bein duped. But **** it. what the hell do I know. I was racin back in the late 70s before I even had a driver's license. I don't know ****.
 
StrokerScamp said:
For a budget, run the SS springs, the snubber. In the front go with the slant torsion bars. for shocks, use standard heavy duty hydraulic shocks (NOT gas charged) in the rear. MP sells the 2" longer shocks for the SS springs. Drill holes on the front shocks and drain the fluid. It's all in the MP chassis manual. cars have been runnin in the 8s for bout 40 years using these methods. Just cause somethin is new, sporty and expensive dont mean it works any damned better. yall are bein duped. But **** it. what the hell do I know. I was racin back in the late 70s before I even had a driver's license. I don't know ****.
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While your methods may have worked in the 70's and still work today. I think everyone appreciates your opinions but remember there is more then 1 way to skin a cat. While the old school ways laid the fabric there have be some changes in the last 30+ years that can help these cars run faster and consistant.
 
72ScampTramp said:
While your methods may have worked in the 70's and still work today. I think everyone appreciates your opinions but remember there is more then 1 way to skin a cat. While the old school ways laid the fabric there have be some changes in the last 30+ years that can help these cars run faster and consistant.
Click to expand...

blah blah blah.....marketing bullshit.....blah blah blah. sorry Josh. I aint buyin it. there are plenty of cars out there runnin leaf back suspensions. It's not "MY" methods. It's Mopars. they haven't changed their methods because it's not necassary. these cars haven't been build since the 70s. they are 70s engineering. 70s engineering still works well on them. while you're right that other stuff does work, why jump ship when it's more costly? If the MP SS suspension will support an 8 second car, (and it WILL) why use anything else if more money's involved? yall run what you want. I know what I'm gonna run.
 
The only problem I have with SS springs etc is the consistency of quality mentioned above. Seems like low bidder sydrome victimized those too.

That is why I will take my stock springs to a truck spring shop and have them rebuilt.then the caltracs will go on.
 
Whatever method you choose, the word budget to me means to fab your own stuff. I cobbled a set of leaf springs together for my old Dart and they are currently on my son's 67 Barracuda fastback that is set up for handling, but still hooks reasonably well.

What works with SS springs (and all factory HD rear leaves, for that matter) is the added stiffness forward of the axle. It was an inexpensive "traction bar", for lack of a better term. This was also the reason Chrysler used asymetrical (roughly 1/3 of the spring length in front of the axle) leaves while the rest of the automotive world used symetrical (1/2 the lenght in front of the axle) and suffered from wheel hop.

So, do what you want, but don't use the word budget while talking about purchasing a bunch of already fabbed parts.........
 
Hey,Thanks for the quick replys.I will not use the word budget again thats for sure.I think this is where i am second guessing myself as there are different views when it comes to using caltracs and i guess i need to get the mp hand book sent over here and have a big read.I cant just go down to the wreckers and get slant 6 bars as our mopars never had them they were all beefed up to .85 at the least and they are very hard to find.So i will have to spring for new plus freight from the states.I think now! that i am trying to get a response like if u run caltracs on the back do this to the front or if u run ss springs do this to the front,or is it the same front mods for both.i am well aware i can do what i want,but u guys over there made the fuckin thing so who best to ask how to run it for racing.I have never even seen an ss spring and or new i was lookin at one anyway.My diff is a 9 inch and nothing from ford is in it,so there aint no snubber but i never mention that.You go to a diff place here and they wouldn't even know what a 8.75 was!had one before and liked it but parts and finding people to modify it for u is near impossible.But these are my probs not yours and at the same time understand that building a fine 68 bigblock dart over here is hard and costly.When i put this thing out on the strip i want it to go as good as it looks,and u guys over there are the ones that can give me the advice i need to achieve this,not the chevy/ford guys that dominate our strips here.So i will use my caltracs and order the mp book and find out for myself like i should have done in the first place.cheers and thanks for the advice,i sure need it.
 
by all means, use what you have....and dont take anything I say personally. I like makin the debate lively....alot of people dont get that. LOL
 
Hey thats cool strokerscamp,i will get that chassis manual ordered and listen to the people out there that are runnin these cars and there mods that have worked for them.Least i just have to build it for strip only i guess!I like the top control arm ideas like moper suggested,and drilling holes in stock shocks would never of thought of that!I imagine there are lots of ways to achieve an outcome.i just dont want to waste my time on things that don,t really help. cheers
 
World block stroker!! sounds awesome!
If ya don't already have cal-tracks mate, get some Oz-tracks or Mcdonald Bro's bars,
there exactly the same and $100 cheaper.
My Ap6 had .870 bars from the factory, I swapped to .850 hemi6 bars and found a big
difference in weight transfer.
Im eventually guna get a mate to turn me some bars down to .78 for me and see how they go :-D
Good luck mate, sounds like a killer
 
Hi Timopar,I did not think u could turn down a torsion bar,got .87 bars here.I will get a new .810 set in i think.That would be cool if i can get that book here.I did have a 400 block std bore but sonic check said thrust side was thin for what i was wanting to build,sold it for a grand and will just get the new world block as a short block package i think.Just trying to put my front and rear suspention together first.cheers..
 
I agree with using the old direct connection "bibles", it worked then, it'll work now.
Slant 6 torsion bars are easy to find here maybe not in Australia, but here they are give aways.
Personally, i would go with SS springs and a snubber, slant 6 torsion bars and weak shocks on the front end, but i'm old school anyway, i don't do it for a living. Only for fun. I've seen cars set up this way and man do they lift and plant the rears big time.
Good luck to you and let us know how it goes.
Tom.
 
Man if shippin won't put you in the poorhouse, I'll send you some slant bars for just shippin alone.
 
If u would help me out with a pair of slant 6 bars for the cost of postage and your time to go and send them,i would certainly take u up on that offer.I wonder what postage would be for a set of torsion bars to 4034 brisbane,australia.Are they stamped 622/623 or 888/889 as thats what i have been trying to find here..I thought they would be give away bars here too but man i was wrong,no one even has a set with those numbers on them.That would be a great help...strokerscamp
 
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