Aftermarket brakes for a 70 Dart?

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dowboy1970

dowboy1970

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I am looking at for a set of brakes for my 70 Dart and would like to know what you guys are doing on your cars.

I would like run manual discs with 15" centerlines for a 4 speed car that will see street use and strip every so often.

This car will be manual steering, manual brakes and no air so it is basically a hot rod.

I already have a really nice early 4 piston setup stock Kelsey Hays small pattern setup but I am not sure that will be enough brake and I would like to change to 4.5 pattern to run centerlines I already have.

Please let me know what you guys like and what you are running for wheel size with your set up.

Pictures would be great as well and if you happen to have part numbers , even better.

Thanks in advance.
 
Professor Fate said:
The K-H setup is plenty good for a street/occasional strip car.
If you want 4.5 bc, then read this thread (it's a sticky at the top of this section):
Using mustang rotors for 4.5" bc
Click to expand...
I have started reading that thread. Would I not be better off selling what i have and getting aftermarket?
Everything I have for the KH setup looks to be new oldstock and its loaded with everything.

Just trying to compare the legwork and parts collecting to just cashing out for something else.

Also wondering how much better compared to good enough.
 
The four-piston K-Hs are arguably better than the (still very good) later model single piston units, which the factory went to due to cost considerations... The later units do have the benefit of being upgradable to 11.75" cop rotors, but bigger is also heavier- and your combination of driving doesn't necessitate it unless you're gonna be doing a bunch of corner carving.
The KHs are great brakes, you just need to swap rotors to get the big bolt pattern. The later brakes have better parts availability. Your call.
You can always go Wilwood, Baer, etc. but you'll be doing legwork to get those up and running.
Beware of "complete" kits- few actually are. And getting service parts can sometimes be a pain after a few years and the manufacturer has moved on to the next "latest and greatest", or discontinued your model due to low demand.
 
I live in Arkansas so corner carving is going to happen.
Rather get the brakes in one shot and not have to go back.

I totally agree on the aftermarket moving on or no parts.

Wilwood seems pretty solid but you never know.
 
Wilwood is just high cost for mediocre performance. Their 4 piston kits provide less brake force than a set of the 11.75” Mopar rotors with the later 2.75” piston calipers.

Given your stated goals, I’d go to DoctorDiff and pick up a Stage II kit. I ran that brake kit on my ‘72 Challenger for 70k+ miles, a lot of it with 275/40/17’s up front. They work very well and even larger brake kits that require larger diameter wheels are only incrementally better. If you’re keeping the 15” rims the 11.75” set up is about as big as you can go.

Mopar 11.75" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 2)
 
72bluNblu said:
Wilwood is just high cost for mediocre performance. Their 4 piston kits provide less brake force than a set of the 11.75” Mopar rotors with the later 2.75” piston calipers.

Given your stated goals, I’d go to DoctorDiff and pick up a Stage II kit. I ran that brake kit on my ‘72 Challenger for 70k+ miles, a lot of it with 275/40/17’s up front. They work very well and even larger brake kits that require larger diameter wheels are only incrementally better. If you’re keeping the 15” rims the 11.75” set up is about as big as you can go.

Mopar 11.75" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 2)
Click to expand...
This is the kind of info that I am looking for and I am sure many more here are too.
 
Stainless Steel Brake Corp. (SSBC) sells a base set up that uses your 10 inch drum brake spindles. It uses K&H calipers with 4 pots originally for a Mustang (so replacement parts are easy), and 11 inch discs like the K&H brakes. The rotors are drilled for both small and big bolt pattern so you can use them with current wheels and change them when ever you are ready for 15" wheels. They fit inside my 14 inch ralleye wheels so they will definitely fit in 14s and 15s.

dawson 70 dart 1.jpg


dawson 70 dart 4.jpg
 
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When SSBC v1.0 went belly up, they screwed over customers, vendors and employees. Almost everyone who was owed got nothing. Previous customers had nowhere to get proprietary parts like rotors. I just drove by their buildings on Saturday. They're still empty, but have a nice "Available" sign out front. I'm happy for those who've had a satisfactory SSBC experience.

SSBC v2.0 bought what they did for pennies on the dollar, and are making some things, for now. They don't sleeve stock calipers, which is the origin of their name.

When there are kits available based on stock parts like those sold by Dr. Diff, and real brake companies like Wilwood I can't understand why someone would buy something else.
 
Well to be frankly honest with you I got mine for $125 on this site...couldn't resist

20231010_002439.jpg
 
I like the 73,74 a body Disc set up but I am a little frugal.You would need the upper control arms with the bigger BJ from the same car. I currently use KH on my Ragtop and Wilwood on my hardtop/ I did have a 69 dart that had the 74 set up and I loved them.
 
Kendog 170 said:
I like the 73,74 a body Disc set up but I am a little frugal.You would need the upper control arms with the bigger BJ from the same car. I currently use KH on my Ragtop and Wilwood on my hardtop/ I did have a 69 dart that had the 74 set up and I loved them.
Click to expand...
Out of the tree setups, witch one would you say stops the car the best?
Do you happen to be running manual non power brakes on any of them?
Thank you for your information.
 
Manual in all. First, KH hubs and calipers are getting harder to come by. They work real well when they do. Wilwood (Conversion kit $$$) to me stop about the same. Some may argue that. The stock 73-74 (More years and models if you look into it.) Easy to maintain and get parts for. I thought they stopped just as good. I put a 100k on them and only had to change pads when needed. Never needed a caliper or a rotor (Not even turned). As said JMO. There are other kits out there but I never had them.
 
Kendog 170 said:
Manual in all. First, KH hubs and calipers are getting harder to come by. They work real well when they do. Wilwood (Conversion kit $$$) to me stop about the same. Some may argue that. The stock 73-74 (More years and models if you look into it.) Easy to maintain and get parts for. I thought they stopped just as good. I put a 100k on them and only had to change pads when needed. Never needed a caliper or a rotor (Not even turned). As said JMO.
Click to expand...
I'll add one thing- if he uses the Mustang rotors to convert to the large bolt pattern on the K-H brakes, rotor and hub availability is no longer a factor; they are commonly available. Plus, you rid yourself of the Mopar's 2 piece hub and rotor and get a 1 piece unicast hub and rotor- no more pressing wheel studs in/out to change rotors and dealing with swedging.
 
Professor Fate said:
I'll add one thing- if he uses the Mustang rotors to convert to the large bolt pattern on the K-H brakes, rotor and hub availability is no longer a factor; they are commonly available. Plus, you rid yourself of the Mopar's 2 piece hub and rotor and get a 1 piece unicast hub and rotor- no more pressing wheel studs in/out to change rotors and dealing with swedging.
Click to expand...
Next time I need a hub I'll look into that. Is there a sticky on this?
 
When I need serious calipers, I found the Toyota 4 x 2 inch puck calipers for $70.00 to work exceptionally well in competition, The Mazda finned aluminum calipers are getting hard to find but very nice as well, but smaller pucks .

1990 TOYOTA PICKUP 2.4L L4 Caliper | Shop Now at RockAuto

Brake & Wheel Hub Parts and More for Your 1990 TOYOTA PICKUP at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.
www.rockauto.com
Raybestos # 10087n, 10088
No decal !
Fab or modify mount brkts .
Cheers
 
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Kendog 170 said:
I like the 73,74 a body Disc set up but I am a little frugal.You would need the upper control arms with the bigger BJ from the same car. I currently use KH on my Ragtop and Wilwood on my hardtop/ I did have a 69 dart that had the 74 set up and I loved them.
Click to expand...

You don't need the large ball joint UCA's, you can use a ball joint adaptor if you're really frugal.

And if you're frugal, you shouldn't be running the Wilwoods anyway. The price for the 11" Wilwood kit for the KH disk spindles is $988, and you still need to spend another $70 on their brake hoses. So you're at $1,058. And here's the other thing, your wheels MUST have a hub bore of 3.050". That's huge. It eliminates every stock wheel ever made, and quite a few aftermarket wheels as well. Here's the pricing, the hoses are in the "required parts" section. Wilwood Disc Brakes 140-15459-R Wilwood Forged Dynalite Pro Series Front Disc Brake Kits | Summit Racing
You can get the 11.75" DoctorDiff kit, with everything you need- knuckles, upper ball joint adaptors, new lower ball joints, stainless steel hoses, for $745. Now that doesn't include a master cylinder or prop valve but neither does the Wilwood kit. Or, you can skip the ball joint adaptors and buy the large ball joint UCA's for another $248, after you subtract the cost of the adaptors that's $970. So not only cheaper, but you get all new ball joints and upper control arms out of it, the larger wheel bearings on the later knuckles and larger bolts for the lower ball joints. Plus the replacement parts are cheaper to find if you need them. Heck for a little more you could get a set of QA1 UCA's and take care of the positive caster issue you'd have with the stock UCA's.
Mopar 11.75" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 2)
1971 CY Dodge Dart said:
I have manual brakes and run Wilwood 6 pistons on the front and smaller on the rear. No issues at all.

View attachment 1716152254
Click to expand...

That kit uses the later 73+ spindles though, so you'd need to add that to the price of the kit
 
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inertia said:
When I need serious calipers, I found the Toyota 4 x 2 inch puck calipers for $70.00 to work exceptionally well in competition, The Mazda finned aluminum calipers are getting hard to find but very nice as well, but smaller pucks .
[/URL]
Fab or modify mount brkts .
Good luck
Click to expand...

I think fabricating your own caliper brackets puts that in a completely different category.

I assume you've done this for a Mopar then too, so, let's see what you did to make it work.
 
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