Aftermarket brakes for a 70 Dart?

[Kendog 170]

And if you're frugal, you shouldn't be running the Wilwoods anyway. The price for the 11" Wilwood kit for the KH disk spindles is $988, and you still need to spend another $70 on their brake hoses.

I agree. But. I bought the complete set up used from a circle track racer that said he had brake fade . $300. (8 years ago) Came complete with spindles and hoses! Everything. Just bolted on. Turns out he had a wrong bolt behind the rotor that was hitting while cornering and heating the rotor up..Yes I'm frugal and would never had bought them at full price lol .

 

[Demonracer]

72bluNblu, I disagreed with you because I have Wilwood 4 piston disk brakes on all four corners of my Demon. The weight savings are totally worth the expense, I had KH disk and drum combination before swapping. Most days I can make the second cut out at the track with no problem.

 

[MopaR&D]

My vote is also for the Doctor Diff Stage 2 brake kit. I installed that setup on my '70 Duster over the summer and it was a breeze. Kit came with EVERYthing, all the hardware, clips, wheel bearings, seals, splash shields (with foam gaskets), fresh new calipers with nice black powdercoating, plated rotors that were also drilled and slotted. I also upgraded to the braided stainless flex brake lines for even more pedal feel (already manual front disc car). I debated whether to go with that kit or the Mustang Cobra (Stage 3) setup but I'm very happy with these. Sure they're heavy but you can't beat OE Mopar parts in terms of durability for street use and ease of finding replacement parts. It's all just late-70s B-body stuff.

The website format is great too, detailed instructions and options to make sure you select the right parts depending on what car you're working with.

 

[Kendog 170]

Oh, just to clarify. The Three cars I mentioned all had rear drums and stock 1974 Dart manual style MC. Oddly enough no external rear proportioning valve which I thought I might have needed. The Kelsy Hayes should have the smaller bore MC as the pedal is rock hard and requires more foot pressure. I should probably change that.

 

[Inertia]

There was a formula to figure out some sort of h/p? gain by removing unsprung weight vs sprung weight in regards to aluminum vs cast iron/steel calipers, and wheels, it was amazingly substantial .

 

[72bluNblu]

I agree. But. I bought the complete set up used from a circle track racer that said he had brake fade . $300. (8 years ago) Came complete with spindles and hoses! Everything. Just bolted on. Turns out he had a wrong bolt behind the rotor that was hitting while cornering and heating the rotor up..Yes I'm frugal and would never had bought them at full price lol .

It doesn't surprise me that those wilwoods wouldn't handle circle track racing, if a single bolt dragging occasionally was all it took to create fade they weren't far from it to begin with. Or that they were put together incorrectly, as I've seen that too. Safety wired rotors might be one thing for the track, not a fan of them on the street. Too many people out there that don't know how to safety wire things properly.

72bluNblu, I disagreed with you because I have Wilwood 4 piston disk brakes on all four corners of my Demon. The weight savings are totally worth the expense, I had KH disk and drum combination before swapping. Most days I can make the second cut out at the track with no problem.

That's fine, people use their cars for different things. I would never sacrifice stopping power to save some weight, but my cars get used primarily on the street where the weight of a heavier rotor/caliper assembly won't make any kind of noticeable difference. But the stopping power of the larger and heavier brakes will. If all you ever do is stop 1 time from speed with a large runoff area then it probably doesn't matter.

There was a formula to figure out some sort of h/p? gain by removing unsprung weight vs sprung weight in regards to aluminum vs cast iron/steel calipers, and wheels, it was amazingly substantial .

And if all you do is drag race then that's a big consideration. But for a street going car I'd rather trade a bit of weight for braking power and reliability, both of which are sacrificed by the Wilwoods. And for a road course car the braking power and fade resistance is more important than just the weight.

I'm not saying that weight isn't a factor, but, it seems to me a lot of people that don't make a living racing spend entirely too much time and money trying to shave a couple pounds off their cars, frequently at the expense of reliability and durability. The 13" Viper brake kit I just put on my Duster is heavier than the 13" Cobra style kit that it replaced. Thicker rotors, larger calipers. But it also stops better. So, yeah I'm happy with that trade off, because that's what the brakes are there to do.

 

[Brooks James]

Kelseys good set up, keep on front

Pirate Jack rear disc kit LBP, small pattern double drilled rotors $500

 

[72bluNblu]

Kelseys good set up, keep on front

Pirate Jack rear disc kit LBP, small pattern double drilled rotors $500

OP wants to go LBP to run wheels he already has, the 11.75" mopar brake set up will outperform the KH disks and all the parts are readily available anywhere and can be ordered straight from DoctorDiff with everything he wants.

And you can get LBP rear disks from DoctorDiff that will have higher quality parts and you get actual customer service if he wants rear disks to go with. I'd much rather spend my money with @DoctorDiff who has been supporting the Mopar community for decades, knows his products and stands behind them.

 

[junkyardhero]

there's a lot of considerations here. expense, PITA factor, and availability among them.

how much do you want to spend? do you care if your rotors and calipers are all flashy because they can be seen thru the wheels? do you drive enough to possibly need consumables on a yearly basis or maybe on road trips? do you care about availability 2, 5, 15 years from now? is the cost of those parts a concern to your budget? do you have infinite free time to hunt down all the parts and bits and bobs and whatzits when cobbling together a system of hodge podge parts? are you okay with your car being down or waiting weeks for something that's not in stock or currently unavailable?

for all intents and purposes, a stock KH or 73~76 single pot is going to be more than adequate for your intended application. and going KH BBP on the front is probably the "easiest" way forward.

personally i'd swap it out to 73~76 single pots. the "small" slotted/drilled rotors with aggressive pads will stand up to occasional track use and be great on the street. yes, the price on the front end is higher; and yes, that is more work involved. but, the parts availability and pricing is hard to beat-- and the PITA factor is basically nonexistent.

best of all, you know that they'll fit the centerlines you plan to run.

 

[Brooks James]

OP wants to go LBP to run wheels he already has, the 11.75" mopar brake set up will outperform the KH disks and all the parts are readily available anywhere and can be ordered straight from DoctorDiff with everything he wants.

And you can get LBP rear disks from DoctorDiff that will have higher quality parts and you get actual customer service if he wants rear disks to go with. I'd much rather spend my money with @DoctorDiff who has been supporting the Mopar community for decades, knows his products and stands behind them.

Thank you, I stand corrected

 

[hepcat]

there's a lot of considerations here. expense, PITA factor, and availability among them.

how much do you want to spend? do you care if your rotors and calipers are all flashy because they can be seen thru the wheels? do you drive enough to possibly need consumables on a yearly basis or maybe on road trips? do you care about availability 2, 5, 15 years from now? is the cost of those parts a concern to your budget? do you have infinite free time to hunt down all the parts and bits and bobs and whatzits when cobbling together a system of hodge podge parts? are you okay with your car being down or waiting weeks for something that's not in stock or currently unavailable?

for all intents and purposes, a stock KH or 73~76 single pot is going to be more than adequate for your intended application. and going KH BBP on the front is probably the "easiest" way forward.

personally i'd swap it out to 73~76 single pots. the "small" slotted/drilled rotors with aggressive pads will stand up to occasional track use and be great on the street. yes, the price on the front end is higher; and yes, that is more work involved. but, the parts availability and pricing is hard to beat-- and the PITA factor is basically nonexistent.

best of all, you know that they'll fit the centerlines you plan to run.

This may be a stupid question but where can you buy the 73 76 brakes. Are the parts all available new (control arms, spindles etc) or just junkyards still have any usable parts?

 

[S'cuder]

This may be a stupid question but where can you buy the 73 76 brakes. Are the parts all available new (control arms, spindles etc) or just junkyards still have any usable parts?

10.95" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 1)

Mopar 11.75" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 2)

Everything in the above kits is new, with the possible exception of the caliper castings. They are based on OEM parts. The second kit listed may not clear 14" wheels.

You can look for the spindles and caliper adapters in the used market, but they aren't plentiful and are often expensive. Everything else is available through normal parts sources. Even though they may not be stocked locally anymore, most can be had next day at the latest. All service parts can be had through online sellers pretty quickly.

 

[72bluNblu]

10.95" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 1)

Mopar 11.75" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 2)

Everything in the above kits is new, with the possible exception of the caliper castings. They are based on OEM parts. The second kit listed may not clear 14" wheels.

You can look for the spindles and caliper adapters in the used market, but they aren't plentiful and are often expensive. Everything else is available through normal parts sources. Even though they may not be stocked locally anymore, most can be had next day at the latest. All service parts can be had through online sellers pretty quickly.

Pretty sure the minimum wheel diameter for the 11.75” disk kit (stage II) is 15”. None of the cars they originally came on had 14” rims.

 

[junkyardhero]

^^
S'cuder nailed it. all of the consumables are readily available and easily obtainable at local parts places.

spindles are available new, factory style UCA's are currently difficult to get a hold of (this seems to go in waves as they make production runs), but tubular uppers are easy to get. dr. diff has all the other stuff.

the yards are drying up, but there's still stuff out there (i scored all that stuff about a month ago). but swapmeets, ebay and the classifieds here turn up most of the hard parts on the regular (spindles, uppers, lowers, caliper brackets).

 

[Ricks70Duster340]

Wilwood is just high cost for mediocre performance. Their 4 piston kits provide less brake force than a set of the 11.75” Mopar rotors with the later 2.75” piston calipers.

Given your stated goals, I’d go to DoctorDiff and pick up a Stage II kit. I ran that brake kit on my ‘72 Challenger for 70k+ miles, a lot of it with 275/40/17’s up front. They work very well and even larger brake kits that require larger diameter wheels are only incrementally better. If you’re keeping the 15” rims the 11.75” set up is about as big as you can go.

Mopar 11.75" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 2)

I agree completely. I "upgraded" to Wilwood calipers & larger rotors in the front of my Duster and had less braking performance. Would not do it again. Dr Diff's Stage II setup is a very good one.

 

[hepcat]

10.95" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 1)

Mopar 11.75" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 2)

Everything in the above kits is new, with the possible exception of the caliper castings. They are based on OEM parts. The second kit listed may not clear 14" wheels.

You can look for the spindles and caliper adapters in the used market, but they aren't plentiful and are often expensive. Everything else is available through normal parts sources. Even though they may not be stocked locally anymore, most can be had next day at the latest. All service parts can be had through online sellers pretty quickly.

Thanks. Now i understand

 

[Nat]

I use stock KH 4 PISTON CALIPERS WITH GOOD PADS AND DISKS , NO PROBLEMS i also use 235-55-15 sticky tires all around , With BFG tires braking takes a big hit