Alignment shop says they can't get over 1 degree positive caster on 73 Scamp

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iamdamnsam

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Is it common for stock parts on a 73 Scamp or do they just not know how to adjust it correctly? Also, they set the toe at .14. I had asked for .06, the tires do make a squeal noise on asphalt and my tires are hot after driving. Other than that is drives good.

Firestone has already attempted 3 alignments, luckily I got the lifetime one. The specs I requested were +4.5 caster, -.5 camber and .06 toe. They gave me +1/+.8 caster, +.6 camber and the .14 toe.
 
It is common with stock parts to not be able to achieve enough positive caster in 67-76 A bodies. The fix is to use the offset upper control arm bushings.

I am not an alignment expert but it does sound like you have too much toe in.
 
I installed adjustable UCA on my Barracuda and now there are no problem ever!!



treblig
 
too much camber also. half a degree negative camber and 1/16th toe in is where you want to be. find another alignment shop.
 
So very hard to find a shop that knows how to adjust our cars. Correctly..
 
iamdamnsam said:
Is it common for stock parts on a 73 Scamp or do they just not know how to adjust it correctly? Also, they set the toe at .14. I had asked for .06, the tires do make a squeal noise on asphalt and my tires are hot after driving. Other than that is drives good.

Firestone has already attempted 3 alignments, luckily I got the lifetime one. The specs I requested were +4.5 caster, -.5 camber and .06 toe. They gave me +1/+.8 caster, +.6 camber and the .14 toe.
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This is bs
Streetcars need NEGATIVE camber. That Positive camber is probably costing you about a degree of caster.
All tires get hot driving; the question is how hot is too hot, and is it equally hot across the face of the tread. And new tires may squeal on turns.Actually there is a very narrow window of turning when the two front tires are not, in some measure, being side-loaded during turning. That is to say,most of the time the two tires are not turning around the same theoretical pivot point, on their respective turning circles. So tire squeal should be common.
The problem solver offset bushings are a great affordable way to pick up about 3 degrees of caster. Perhaps a tad more. The best results will be at or near the factory ride-height.
 
If you run radials, and you probably do, you want the tires leaning INWARDS at the top, whichever camber that is. The Moog offset upper arm bushings are a good deal.
 
We have been able to get about 2.5 degrees caster with about 1/2 degree neg camber. The trick is to start with the front cam all the way out and the rear all the in. Then adjust the rear cam out until you have your 1/2 degree of neg camber. That is the most positive caster you can get out of the parts on your car. This is all done AFTER the ride height is set.
 
Jim Lusk said:
We have been able to get about 2.5 degrees caster with about 1/2 degree neg camber. The trick is to start with the front cam all the way out and the rear all the in. Then adjust the rear cam out until you have your 1/2 degree of neg camber. That is the most positive caster you can get out of the parts on your car. This is all done AFTER the ride height is set.
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THANKS Jim!!! I was going to try and post those settings, and could not remember who suggested them.
 
If the toe from the shop is listed in degrees (most are now) it may actually be pretty close to 1/16" toe in. Converting from degrees to inches depends on the hieght of the tire, but unless your tires are really tall or really short it's likely you're not too far off 1/16".

As for the rest of it, totally agree. No reason you should have positive camber with radials, and that is effecting on much caster you can get. And finally, your alignment shop isn't great.

Most of the big name tire and alignment shops will only use the specs in their computers, which are factory specs and are for bias plys, which are incorrect for radials. Not sure why so many shops have a problem with these cars beyond that policy though. I mean, you literally just have to turn the cam bolts. It's so easy. If the ride height is already set that's all there is to do besides adjust the toe and that's just like every other tie rod car out there. The method Jim listed is how I start mine as well, I do all my own alignments now. With stock bushings you probably won't get too much more than a couple degrees of positive caster, but that does depend on your ride height. Even with the offset bushings most cars won't get to +4.5, but you should be able to get well into the 3's to maybe +4. I'd say if you really want more than +4* caster you'll probably need to go with tubular UCA's.
 
Usually with these cars, there is one of two scenarios. Either you can get the camber you want, or the caster you want, bot not both.

This is because the front frame rails are not supported well and can twist in at the top when viewed from the front over time. This is why additional caster is needed.

If the car has been pampered its whole life, sometimes that's not the case. But these cars were not to last fifty plus years. Years of pounding through potholes, over speed breakers and any and every other imaginable bump and jolt the suspension takes through time.

A cross member ahead of the engine attached at the top of the frame rails could help this problem, but Chrysler didn't deem it necessary.

The offset upper bushings are the best quick fix, although the absolute most correct way would be to "untwist" the front frame rails and reinforce them.
 
Dealing with this right now: My 67' Dart convertible is at the local NTB for an alignment. They aligned my '72 Swinger a few years ago and did a GREAT job, I think they got -.75 camber and 3.0 caster IIRC, – except they charged me $140 for a "custom" alignment because I furnished my own specs. The difference is the Swinger had the problem-solver bushings, and the convertible is all stock, just lowered a little.

At this point, the convertible hasn't been driven in over 10 years, and I just want to get it back on the road again. Hoping they can get close to the "Typ. Perf. Street" specs until I can get around to replacing the bushings. I'll repost when the results are in.
 
72bluNblu said:
.......... Not sure why so many shops have a problem with these cars ...........I mean, you literally just have to turn the cam bolts. It's so easy. If the ride height is already set that's all there is to do besides adjust the toe and that's just like every other tie rod car out there. The method Jim listed is how I start mine as well, I do all my own alignments now. ...........
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If an old 68 year old broken down relic like me can do my own alignment, there's no reason some teenager in a shop can't LOL
 
Thanks everyone. I am just going to do it myself. I have a feeling taking it back to them a 4th time and giving them the same talk and settings I did all 3 times isn't going to get a different result.
 
iamdamnsam said:
Thanks everyone. I am just going to do it myself. I have a feeling taking it back to them a 4th time and giving them the same talk and settings I did all 3 times isn't going to get a different result.
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How do you plan to measure caster?

I've heard of from phone apps that are decent.
 
iamdamnsam said:
Thanks everyone. I am just going to do it myself. I have a feeling taking it back to them a 4th time and giving them the same talk and settings I did all 3 times isn't going to get a different result.
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As mentioned, find an old-skool shop that understands torsion bar suspensions. I have to go 35 miles from my home to the alignment shop I trust.
BTW, you didn't say what kind of driving you'll be doing. If it's mainly a DD with manual steering, low speed steering effort will increase with a lot of positive caster. Now if you're planning on carving it up, then you'll want more caster.
 
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