Another ghost in the brake lights thread.

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Duggie

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'64 Dart /6; A year ago, I cleaned all through firewall connections, tuned up the dash gauges, and cleaned tail, head, and parking light sockets, replaced the fuse box, and cleaned and adjusted the brake light switch. I didn't go into the headlamp switch or turn signal switch, but the turn signal switch was replaced by the previous owner.

Been driving the Dart as a second car for over a year. Put in gas, change the oil, grin from ear to ear, repeat.

That's the background, here's the ghost in the "no brake lights" that looks like a bad ground but where?
*Brake pedal always depressed, and both tail light sockets jumper grounded (and checked with an ohm meter) = no brake lights.
*Park light switch on = both bulbs lit.
*Remove left ground jumper = both bulbs lit.
*Remove both ground jumpers = One left wire hot w/ test light, and bulb will light, both right wires show 'some juice', but bulb will not light.
*Ground both sockets again and turn on left turn signal = right brake light lit.
*Turn off left turn signal and remove both socket grounds, and both brake bulbs are lit.
*Pump brake pedal once, and both brake bulbs are off again, and I start all over again with random symptoms.

? Can all this be inside the turn signal switch? The wiring diagram in and out of the headlight switch looks innocent enough.
? Where are there other grounds in the lighting system besides the tail light socket that can cause this?

GACK!!
 
It CAN be inside the TS switch. The key is simple

1...Avoid all the "removing jumpers" at the sockets and simply ground them "you know they are."
(Could still be bulb problems or bulb grounding problems---though)
2...."Clip" a meter or test light to the wire from the brake light switch going into the TS switch so you can monitor it. If it is live and the brake lights aren't then you have a problem
3...To confirm or eliminate grounding problems, check voltage OUT of the TS switch. One easy place to access that is the kick panel connector speparating the rear harness. Of course the problem can still be "from there back" but you will at least know at that point
1...That you do have brake light voltage on both sides
2...that the kick panel connector is OK

I guess if things REALLY get "ghostly" you could tap each turn sig wire just before the sockets and run light gauge wires up to the package tray, and stick a couple of red LEDs etc up there so you can see them in the mirror
 
Park light switch on = both bulbs lit
Fyi. Parking lights have almost nothing to do with the brake lights or the turn signals, other than proving the bulb base is grounded
 
It CAN be inside the TS switch. The key is simple

1...Avoid all the "removing jumpers" at the sockets and simply ground them "you know they are."
(Could still be bulb problems or bulb grounding problems---though)
2...."Clip" a meter or test light to the wire from the brake light switch going into the TS switch so you can monitor it. If it is live and the brake lights aren't then you have a problem
3...To confirm or eliminate grounding problems, check voltage OUT of the TS switch. One easy place to access that is the kick panel connector speparating the rear harness. Of course the problem can still be "from there back" but you will at least know at that point
1...That you do have brake light voltage on both sides
2...that the kick panel connector is OK

I guess if things REALLY get "ghostly" you could tap each turn sig wire just before the sockets and run light gauge wires up to the package tray, and stick a couple of red LEDs etc up there so you can see them in the mirror

Thanks Dana67, I needed a little sense while to help get unwound.

*"Don't sweat what happens when the bulbs are not grounded." All I can say is duh!
*Brake light switch has power. The connector behind the kick panel (thanks for the location!), going to the taillights has park and turn, but no brake power.
*I'll find the connector that's between the brake light switch and turn signal switch tomorrow and confirm power there.

It's good to have direction!
 
It CAN be inside the TS switch. The key is simple

1...Avoid all the "removing jumpers" at the sockets and simply ground them "you know they are."
(Could still be bulb problems or bulb grounding problems---though)
2...."Clip" a meter or test light to the wire from the brake light switch going into the TS switch so you can monitor it. If it is live and the brake lights aren't then you have a problem
3...To confirm or eliminate grounding problems, check voltage OUT of the TS switch. One easy place to access that is the kick panel connector speparating the rear harness. Of course the problem can still be "from there back" but you will at least know at that point
1...That you do have brake light voltage on both sides
2...that the kick panel connector is OK

I guess if things REALLY get "ghostly" you could tap each turn sig wire just before the sockets and run light gauge wires up to the package tray, and stick a couple of red LEDs etc up there so you can see them in the mirror

Okay, good news - bad news.

The good news is once I learned that the brake lights went through the turn signal switch, I took the switch apart and found a pocket of dust separating the brake light contact from the turn signal switch spring. A little 0000 steel wool, and some electronic contact cleaner and the brake lights work great!

The bad news is all the dust came from a deteriorating steering wheel column bearing. HA! :steering:
 
I'm glad you got it figured out.
I think some people don't realize that the bulbs have more than one filament.
Parking lights, and Brake/Turn signal together.
 
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