Any advice on my 440 recipe?

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Decking a head .060" is not going to gain compression like decking a block .060" will. The last 76 440 I took apart had the pistons .156" in the hole. Shaving .060" off a head is going to do little to increase compression with a hole like that.

Everyone acts so worried that they will need to mill the intake if milling the block or heads. That is not an issue and is not needed. The only thing that might need done is the intake bolt holes might need a small amount of elongation. When you lower the deck or shave the heads what happens is this causes the intake to sit higher up on the heads. What's great about this is it allows the roof of the intake port to behigh ported to match the intake roof. Since the top of the intake port has a curve in it this allows you to straighten out the port roof on the heads. I have a simply little tool to get the angle on the intake port and the top of the head port in the same plane. While this might sound complicated to some it's actually very simple to do, and makes a big improvement in smooth air flow.

Tom
 
IQ52 said:
I have a question. Would a 7.5:1 compression 440 that made 427 lb-ft @ 2,500 rpm and 287 hp @ 4,400 rpm be any fun in a Dart with a 2,500 stall converter using 3.73 gears and 275/60/15 tires?

I think (just my BS talking) what he has on the drawing board will make more than that.
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Agree100%. Too many over thinkers here.

OP- it will be fine. I don’t support Hughes in any way, but any cam under 225*@.050 will do you just fine. Pistons as long as the rings can seal are fine. Oil pump of any style HV, JP, or standard is fine.
 
Huh? Any cam under 225 @ 050 will be fine [ agree 100% ], but the Hughes cam the OP has picked is 232 @ 050.....& it will be fine?

People seem to forget [ or never knew ] an important engineering principle when picking cams: the rod/stroke ratio & how it affects the engine air flow.

This warning is in the Sig Erson Cam catalog. The BB Chr section is the only engine that has the warning & it is because of the large r/s ratio:

"When ordering a cam to be used in a std pass car chassis with TF trans, beware of too much duration. Although the longer duration cam will make more HP, the loss of tq at low rpm will more than offset the gain at the top end & the ET will suffer."
I know from personal experience how true that is....
 
IQ52 said:
Anybody ever drive a Dart with a 340 that made 340 lb-ft @ 3,200 rpm and 275 HP @ 5,000 rpm? Ah no fun there right?
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stock 340's don't make 275hp if you ever drove one you would know. Anymore bench racing.
 
In the end, the OP is discussing a 440 Dart. It will be fun no matter what. I see nothing wrong with his current choices. Could it be better, yes. Always can be better. Always someone who makes more power and is faster.
 
PROSTOCKTOM said:
Decking a head .060" is not going to gain compression like decking a block .060" will. The last 76 440 I took apart had the pistons .156" in the hole. Shaving .060" off a head is going to do little to increase compression with a hole like that.

Everyone acts so worried that they will need to mill the intake if milling the block or heads. That is not an issue and is not needed. The only thing that might need done is the intake bolt holes might need a small amount of elongation. When you lower the deck or shave the heads what happens is this causes the intake to sit higher up on the heads. What's great about this is it allows the roof of the intake port to behigh ported to match the intake roof. Since the top of the intake port has a curve in it this allows you to straighten out the port roof on the heads. I have a simply little tool to get the angle on the intake port and the top of the head port in the same plane. While this might sound complicated to some it's actually very simple to do, and makes a big improvement in smooth air flow.

Tom
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I was merely quoting the book as to their directions to make the compression better. Different ways to do it.
 
I am ordering the Speed Pro L2355F pistons that fishmens67 posted up. These should put me about 9.2. Looking at the dyno that was posted Hughes was running at 9.2 with aluminum heads on the Whiplash cam and made numbers that looked really good to me. Just ordered Mancini’s A body oil pan kit that comes with a standard volume oil pump. Ordering a Hughes Street Master 24-25 torque converter this week. Also decided to drop everything off at the machine shop to get everything balanced. Thanks for all the help everyone!
 
71GSSDemon said:
Hughes designed the Whiplash cam specifically for the low compression later motors to help build cylinder pressure. I am extremely happy with mine. If a piston change increases to more than 9:1, I would talk with them as you may have issues. People can speculate all they want, they likely never had one or tried them. There are engine builds with dyno sheets on their website.
edit:
 
Dyno example below. Seems pretty damn healthy to me. Bring on the haters...
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Bewy said:
Post #42.

Any cam will 'work'. But will it provide the best performance that the OP wants to arrive at?
In THIS case the Whiplash [ or any of the other fancy names given to the tight LSA, very extended exh duration cams ] will NOT.

These cams were ground this way to give a lot of low speed overlap.....& a rowdy exh cackle so the girls look at you when you drive by....

There are lots of cams in cam catalogs for people to choose from & any dope can pick one, but it takes a smarter person to pick the right one for the application.
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I made 415 hp and 465 torque with this dopey cam and an actual 7.5 to 1 compression. Excellent response and great midrange torque. No girls look at me because I put quiet mufflers on it.
 
LO23M8B said:
stock 340's don't make 275hp if you ever drove one you would know. Anymore bench racing.
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Pretty close as it came from the factory.
LO23M8B said:
stock 340's don't make 275hp if you ever drove one you would know. Anymore bench racing.
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a-bodyguy said:
my 68 gts 340 auto 3.23s all stock 85k no air cleaner timming bump spring clamps the chit 68 carb
3600 lbs me in it on the line 14.3@97 mph thats 320 crank 256 rwhp pretty simple
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fishmens67 said:
your et @ 14.3 is 245 hp @ crank 220@ wheel
mph @ 97 256 @ crank 230 @ wheel. mph don't lie
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My build isn't for everyone, but I am recreating a mid 80's 383 build for my 440, but with more modern tech. Using quench block hypereutectic pistons set to 0.035" quench, old school 0.509" 292° 108° hydraulic cam, single springs with damper, back cut stainless 2.14" 1.88" valves, Total seal gap less top rings, h-beam rods, factory forged crank, Torker, factory electronic ignition, and ProParts style semi fenderwell 2" to 2.125" ceramic coated headers... 4 speed with Dana 60. :)
 
standup303 said:
I do want to re use these since this is more of a budget build. How do you know they are low compression?
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Actual compression will be between 7 and 7.5 to one if you do the math. Buy a set of pistons.
 
NoCar340 said:
Call a cam manufacturer to get a recommendation. I'm not discounting anyone's knowledge or experience here, but the cam manufacturers design cams for a living, 40 hours a week. A lot of well-known engine builders have never spec'ed a cam in their lives. They leave it to the pros.

The best results are achieved by being 100% honest with the person to whom you speak. Don't say the car's lighter than it is, or the heads are better than they are. Tell them what you have and what you'd like to accomplish. Be realistic: You won't get a reliable 8,000RPM out of your current base componentry, so don't tell them you want a 7,500RPM shift point. With your goals, you'll probably be steered into a flat-tappet "shelf" cam (something they stock, as opposed to a custom grind) but if that's what they say will work, run it. Don't try to improve on their suggestions unless it involves calling a different cam company.

Download a cam request form from one of the manufacturers (Comp had a good one) so you know what kind of questions you'll be asked. Don't e-mail them, call. I've had two cams designed and shipped in the time since I requested a previous cam, which I did via e-mail and have never heard a peep. I no longer need it, but I still hope someday they'll respond. :D
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This ABSOLUTELY HAS TO BE the BEST ADVICE AND COMMENT IVE SEEN ON HERE!!! Actually I joined this group after reading a lot of different things on here JUST BECAUSE OF YOUR REPLY!! This is EXACTLY why I watch DAVID VIZARD on YouTube! He’s built engines and worked in cam designing & manufacturing for MANY MANY YEARS. Education and understanding means alot but still Nothing like experience!!
 
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