any blacksmiths on the line?

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diymirage said:
why so ?

to flow some creativity out, and not be glued to a screen,
Click to expand...

He's not doing anything creative. He's copying something he saw on a screen. Buying a forge and some tools isn't being creative at all. It's grabbing a gun and calling yourself a hunter.

Build your own forge. Don't look it up on the internet. Figure it out for yourself. Learn it for yourself. Make your own tools, like REAL blacksmiths. Walter P Chrysler didn't buy his tools, he made 'em.

If you truly want the kid to be 'creative', stop copying other people and do something truly on your own. That's how innovations are made. That's how discoveries happen. That's how art is made. That's what learning is. This is how beauty is built.
Figure out what you want to do AND how to get it done with what you already have. Don't just copy some jacklegs on some scripted reality show.

This is the what the kid is doing:
a.ssl-images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F818jUUI6o3L.png



This is what he should be doing:
https%3A%2F%2Fwallpaperaccess.com%2Ffull%2F2596820.jpg


Trust me: buying him a bunch of tools turns this into crayons and a coloring book. Start with a pile of bricks, charcoal, and a match, and figure out where to go from there. The kid will be better off.

Use the hammer to smash the idjit box. The child will thank you when he's a man.
 
jos51700 said:
He's not doing anything creative. He's copying something he saw on a screen. Buying a forge and some tools isn't being creative at all. It's grabbing a gun and calling yourself a hunter.

Build your own forge. Don't look it up on the internet. Figure it out for yourself. Learn it for yourself. Make your own tools, like REAL blacksmiths. Walter P Chrysler didn't buy his tools, he made 'em.

If you truly want the kid to be 'creative', stop copying other people and do something truly on your own. That's how innovations are made. That's how discoveries happen. That's how art is made. That's what learning is. This is how beauty is built.
Figure out what you want to do AND how to get it done with what you already have. Don't just copy some jacklegs on some scripted reality show.

This is the what the kid is doing:
View attachment 1716082086


This is what he should be doing:
View attachment 1716082087

Trust me: buying him a bunch of tools turns this into crayons and a coloring book. Start with a pile of bricks, charcoal, and a match, and figure out where to go from there. The kid will be better off.

Use the hammer to smash the idjit box. The child will thank you when he's a man.
Click to expand...
So, If I get you right, you personally have made all of your tools to work on cars and never looked at a service manual or gotten any advice or tips from friends or the internet...
Then why are you here?
And for that matter, how did you get to where you are in life without help of some kind?
 
Dartnut said:
So, If I get you right, you personally have made all of your tools to work on cars and never looked at a service manual or gotten any advice or tips from friends or the internet...
Then why are you here?
And for that matter, how did you get to where you are in life without help of some kind?
Click to expand...
My car is not my "creative outlet".

My creative outlet is my job, where I have turned my creative abilities into, literally, your ability to buy food to eat. I design and create food packaging and production equipment and yes, that includes the special tools required to manufacturer and service said equipment. I make things that didn't exist before, and those things are conceived and built in my mind.

I am able to do that job better than most because I understand the metallurgy, the manufacturing, the standards, the history and most importantly, the customer. My background in foundries, machine shops, sheet metal shops and even cleaning toilets gives me an edge.

Everybody wants to change the world. Nobody wants to change the toilet paper roll.

And I interview candidates for hire every day who tell me that their creative outlets are knife making, painting, blacksmithing, "stem", design, etc. etc, and 98% start out with "I saw this thing online...." And they have the creative abilities of a brick. They don't understand the fundamentals because they don't have to; they're not making anything truly new and unique, they're just copying.
To relate it to the op buying a propane forge, most people that I interview that call themselves blacksmiths don't know how to start a fire. They don't know where steel comes from. They don't understand alloying, heat treatment, case hardening, carburizing, etc. But they're blacksmiths, by God.

They're simply watching YouTube and following along, thinking that they're doing something.

I'm trying to steer the child in question into monkey think, not just monkey do. Blacksmithing is a worthy start. You can blacksmith with a ball peen hammer, some charcoal briquettes, some scrap steel, and some lungs. (and some safety glasses).
But, nah, break out the credit card and copy what you saw on tv.


Ignore my input if you don't like it. It's no more complicated than that.
 
diymirage said:
hey guys, my boy has been watching a little bit too much "forged in fire" so tomorrow im picking him up a basic propane forge

he will be going in pretty much blind and with barely any tools, so what should be the first thing he needs?
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My son went thru same. Also bought strange items. The angle iron and other scrap I have found useful for other than ancient weaponry. But one item he bought was a grappling hook and chain. I had to ask "WTH?" He replied. "If you need we now have." I thought about and came to the conclusion. On the VERY off chance one needs a grappling hook to scale a wall? I guess you would be glad you have one. Lol.

Kids!
 
diymirage said:
It may be a three pounder, I'd have to check

But I took him to the store and had him pick one he felt comfortable swinging

I'm sure that as he gets into things more, he will add a bunch of different hammers to his collection
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That's true. Just remember, more blacksmiths went to hell from pounding cold iron than any other reason.
 
When Uli came to visit a couple years ago, he and his wife stopped at our house and stayed a couple days. I was trying to think of things we could do while he was here, so I took him for a blacksmithing lesson with my buddy James Roth at his forge. Let’s just say that we all had a great day, Uli and James were fast German friends, and much comraderie ensued. James number one rule, if you can make a leaf, you can be a blacksmith. Reason is, he makes a lot of custom gates, and a lot of them are adorned with vining leaves and such. So, we all made leaves, then had beer and pretzels, more blacksmithing, then lunch. It was a great day, and I know Uli liked it a lot. We made our leaves into keychains.

Pics of the merriment.

E0D0E4BD-F5DA-46F5-832B-631DF2A74FD0.jpeg


CCD90F49-3044-4E1E-AFBD-02BC97300DE1.jpeg


393D62E0-1F3F-4E14-94AE-ACEDBF3C97C0.jpeg


EDDB9712-04FD-4945-BF72-01C266588BBE.jpeg
 
gzig5 said:
I think you’ll be surprised at what temperature you’ll be able to turn that shank. I can remember making twisted half-inch rails for a handrail years ago and it didn’t need to be bright orange to turn.
Click to expand...
Turns out it definitely get hot enough to make those spikes twistable

20230426_115143.jpg
 
Dartnut said:
So, If I get you right, you personally have made all of your tools to work on cars and never looked at a service manual or gotten any advice or tips from friends or the internet...
Then why are you here?
And for that matter, how did you get to where you are in life without help of some kind?
Click to expand...
I personally wouldn't waste my time even replying to him. Reading his posts its obvious he has a way to high opinion of himself.
In todays world we have the internet and there is a wealth of information out there. While its true that nothing beats actual hands on learning, what you can get off the internet and even some not these U tube's can be helpful
I see nothing wrong with obtaining information wherever one can source it
Like yourself ive been welding as a profession over the last 45 years, im a union boilermaker (retired)
Ive made countless items out of steel used in my trade, however id never refer to myself as a blacksmith
I do know at one time a part of the practical test for blacksmith for the city required the applicant to forge a oblong ring
The kind of ring you'd find at the end of a chain, used for a certain rigging application.
The round stock they gave the guy taking the test had to be drawn down to a specify diameter. Than bent to a exact size width and inside diameter.
Finally the piece had to have the ends hammer welded and it was tested.
Thats real skill to be able to drawn down a piece of stock , measure it to the exact length, bend it exactly and hammer weld it
 
diymirage said:
Little after school twist

View attachment 1716082592
Click to expand...
It’s so nice to see a fine young man using his hands, his mind, his imagination, and his heart, to learn a craft that will serve him a lifetime. I applaud him for following his heart and doing something not many folks can do. I’ll bet he becomes one heck of a blacksmith too, it’ll be nice to watch him grow in his craft, and in his life.
 
A good project is to make a starter anvil from a piece of RR track.seen some that are very functional for small to medium projects.with the proper point and lagged to a big hardwood block,very handy.
 
Outasite said:
A good project is to make a starter anvil from a piece of RR track.seen some that are very functional for small to medium projects.with the proper point and lagged to a big hardwood block,very handy.
Click to expand...
If I could fine one, that would be a great start

He definitely needs an anvil, but for now, we're using the base of my logsplitter
 
Steve welder said:
I personally wouldn't waste my time even replying to him. Reading his posts its obvious he has a way to high opinion of himself.
In todays world we have the internet and there is a wealth of information out there. While its true that nothing beats actual hands on learning, what you can get off the internet and even some not these U tube's can be helpful
I see nothing wrong with obtaining information wherever one can source it
Like yourself ive been welding as a profession over the last 45 years, im a union boilermaker (retired)
Ive made countless items out of steel used in my trade, however id never refer to myself as a blacksmith
I do know at one time a part of the practical test for blacksmith for the city required the applicant to forge a oblong ring
The kind of ring you'd find at the end of a chain, used for a certain rigging application.
The round stock they gave the guy taking the test had to be drawn down to a specify diameter. Than bent to a exact size width and inside diameter.
Finally the piece had to have the ends hammer welded and it was tested.
Thats real skill to be able to drawn down a piece of stock , measure it to the exact length, bend it exactly and hammer weld it
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree with you more, Steve.
Also, I may add, that to me it's refreshing to see a young person having interest in making things with their hands instead of the stereotypical ''kids these days'' approach to laying around and playing video games...
 
Steve welder said:
I personally wouldn't waste my time even replying to him. Reading his posts its obvious he has a way to high opinion of himself.
In todays world we have the internet and there is a wealth of information out there. While its true that nothing beats actual hands on learning, what you can get off the internet and even some not these U tube's can be helpful
I see nothing wrong with obtaining information wherever one can source it
Like yourself ive been welding as a profession over the last 45 years, im a union boilermaker (retired)
Ive made countless items out of steel used in my trade, however id never refer to myself as a blacksmith
I do know at one time a part of the practical test for blacksmith for the city required the applicant to forge a oblong ring
The kind of ring you'd find at the end of a chain, used for a certain rigging application.
The round stock they gave the guy taking the test had to be drawn down to a specify diameter. Than bent to a exact size width and inside diameter.
Finally the piece had to have the ends hammer welded and it was tested.
Thats real skill to be able to drawn down a piece of stock , measure it to the exact length, bend it exactly and hammer weld it
Click to expand...
You're correct. Negativity is never a good look over and over again.
 
Dartnut said:
I couldn't agree with you more, Steve.
Also, I may add, that to me it's refreshing to see a young person having interest in making things with their hands instead of the stereotypical ''kids these days'' approach to laying around and playing video games...
Click to expand...
That's one of the reasons I gave in and let him buy the forge (apart from the fact he paid for the whole thing himself)

Having him be outside (well, in the shed) is a huge plus

And since we don't fully trust him not to burn the shed down, it has been some really cool father/son time

That picture of him twisting the handle, is actually a screen grab from a video he took of us working that steel together
 
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