Just something, I have never seen. If you went W-2's,of course you made other changes. Was it worth, the effort. Still feel a W2 design, is worth it. Post responses here,I like all feedback.....
Anyone do a straight across swap,from ported factory heads,to worked W-2's?
- Thread starter Abodybomber
- Start date
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Kevin D.
Well-Known Member
Never done it.But I have heard its a whole new world when it comes to valve train,Kevin.
Yes,it's involved. Why, I posted it....
dodgedifferent2
Well-Known Member
also curious
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Y
Depends what you want from the combo. Street car or race only? Probably does not really make sense to do it unless you utilize those heads to their full potential. You're not going to see a huge gain over ported heads until you start getting into porting and higher lift cams etc. Whatever combo you come up with is likely gonna make peak power at a higher rpm. What they are is a better starting point. Ported W2s will get you well beyond a ported factory head.
Besides the valve gear, you need specific W2 intake and headers.
I have W2s on my car but I got it with them already installed. It's a milder street combo - MP .557" solid cam, Victor 340 intake, Harland Sharp rockers, TTi 1 7/8 step headers, approx. 3,500 stall, 4.10 gear. Had 4.30s originally. Goes to 7,000 rpm. Probably makes around 400-425 hp. Best time was 11.97 before I got it. Made a lot of changes but mostly chassis. No times after changes yet. Should be faster.
If I do build a different engine for this car at some point I'll probably go with the RHS heads I have or some Edelbrocks and get them done up.
Depends what you want from the combo. Street car or race only? Probably does not really make sense to do it unless you utilize those heads to their full potential. You're not going to see a huge gain over ported heads until you start getting into porting and higher lift cams etc. Whatever combo you come up with is likely gonna make peak power at a higher rpm. What they are is a better starting point. Ported W2s will get you well beyond a ported factory head.
Besides the valve gear, you need specific W2 intake and headers.
I have W2s on my car but I got it with them already installed. It's a milder street combo - MP .557" solid cam, Victor 340 intake, Harland Sharp rockers, TTi 1 7/8 step headers, approx. 3,500 stall, 4.10 gear. Had 4.30s originally. Goes to 7,000 rpm. Probably makes around 400-425 hp. Best time was 11.97 before I got it. Made a lot of changes but mostly chassis. No times after changes yet. Should be faster.
If I do build a different engine for this car at some point I'll probably go with the RHS heads I have or some Edelbrocks and get them done up.
Thank You,this is kind of meat post's ,I am looking for. Thank's for ,the post...!
9secRR
Well-Known Member
w2's are worth it. they make a lot of power from an old design. my old 810's pumped out 652 hp only flowing 285 @ 600 lift and with 2.02/1.60 valves.
RAMM
Well-Known Member
W2's are totally worth it especially if you are limited to an iron head like in circle track or something. I went from totally worked EQ heads that flowed 300 cfm to W2's flowing 300 cfm on a 416---Went from 560 hp---590 hp. May not seem that impressive but it was. One of the best inline valve head designs ever. J.Rob
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Reading the last few responses confirms that my particular combo leaves a little bit to be desired. I often feel like the car should have been faster than 12.0 in the 1/4. It was mainly run in the 1/8 mi. so it may have been running out of breath with the 4.30s. It's a basic, no frills Duster though, couldn't have weighed much over 3,300. Really should have been mid-11s at least. What do I know though?
The .557 cam that's in there with valve lash comes out to less than .557" so it's probably a little small and probably not utilizing the entire flow potential of the heads. It's also got a 750 CFM carb on it, might help top end power a little to have more CFM. It's street driven though so it's fine. I have a hard enough time getting it in the ball park with the 750.
I will also admit that cylinder 5 is a little weak but not totally dead. Even so, seems to run OK when I can get a handle on tuning it and sounds great when you get over 6,500 rpm.
I do agree though that W2 heads are a very good design but maintain that if you have a well-ported set of conventional heads then you won't see a huge gain until you start porting the W2s. 300 CFM from conventional heads is huge and probably a max effort but 300CFM from W2s still leaves room for more. Plus like stated above, the design will have benefits over the stock architecture because you are removing the push rod pinch.
I'm not really sure if all this answers the O.P. question though. No matter how you slice it, W2s are a fairly large initial investment with all the specific parts. That also does not take into account whatever else might be needed to get a set of W2s working to their fullest potential. If you have a good running combo already the benefit would really be the untapped potential of W2s over factory heads. If you want to take the next step in performance, they are a good choice but a straight across swap with everything else being equal probably does not add up.
The .557 cam that's in there with valve lash comes out to less than .557" so it's probably a little small and probably not utilizing the entire flow potential of the heads. It's also got a 750 CFM carb on it, might help top end power a little to have more CFM. It's street driven though so it's fine. I have a hard enough time getting it in the ball park with the 750.
I will also admit that cylinder 5 is a little weak but not totally dead. Even so, seems to run OK when I can get a handle on tuning it and sounds great when you get over 6,500 rpm.
I do agree though that W2 heads are a very good design but maintain that if you have a well-ported set of conventional heads then you won't see a huge gain until you start porting the W2s. 300 CFM from conventional heads is huge and probably a max effort but 300CFM from W2s still leaves room for more. Plus like stated above, the design will have benefits over the stock architecture because you are removing the push rod pinch.
I'm not really sure if all this answers the O.P. question though. No matter how you slice it, W2s are a fairly large initial investment with all the specific parts. That also does not take into account whatever else might be needed to get a set of W2s working to their fullest potential. If you have a good running combo already the benefit would really be the untapped potential of W2s over factory heads. If you want to take the next step in performance, they are a good choice but a straight across swap with everything else being equal probably does not add up.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Again, I think it may have had a little too much gear. When I bought it, I talked with the previous owner at length about it. He ran the car at Irwindale in CA which was the 1/8, hence the 4.30 gear. I told him I was planning to put in a 4.10 gear I had and he thought it would be a good choice. He didn't think it would affect E.T. much if at all, it's only a 5% change. Might even MPH a little better? It's got a 28" tire and a low gear set in the trans. He shifted it at 6,800 and went through the traps at 7,000.
He also said it might benefit from a bigger carb but I have no plans for that at the moment. I am staying with the engine and drive train as-is for now.
I would think 4.10's and 28" tire would be perfect (because that's my combo too! haha). Is it spinning a lot? I plan for my car to be in the 10's and I am using a setup similar to yours. 11:1 motor, ported W2's, .645 lift 266/277 dur @ .050 roller cam, 1.5 Harland Sharps, Victor W2, TTi 1-7/8, 8" 5500 stall Dynamic converter with 727, 950HP, triangulated 4 link, 325/50/15 rear tires, etc. If he was going through 1/4 traps at 7000, that sounds about right to me.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Car was @ 7,000 with the 4.30 gears. Theoretically the 4.10 is less than ideal with a 28" tire. I have not run it down the track or even made any real street blasts yet cause I have no brakes. Soon.
Even though the components are similar, your cam is way bigger and you have more compression than I do. Plus, your converter is looser than mine.
This is kind of what I was getting at here. There's really no point in running a set of full boogie W2s if you run a smaller cam, a tighter converter and less gear, my car being the case in point. I figure my car should be into the low 11s if I can learn how to tune and drive it. There's no point to me running W2s and going 12.0, it seems kind of inefficient to me. And since it's a street car, I'm probably not putting more gear in, getting a looser converter or putting in some huge roller cam. These days guys are in the mid 11s with RHS heads, hydraulic cams and an air gap intake. Why do I need W2s that are choked by mismatched components to go 12.0?
My car was built a while ago so there were less options for SBM heads. Its pretty much right out of the old MP book recipes. Much more and better choices now, especially for dual purpose cars. Nothing wrong with it but it could be better.
DarrylsDart
Well-Known Member
I run 4.56 gears with 28 inch tires and a low first gear and it does not seem like to much gear with my W2 headed 408 SB, but my car weights over 3400 lbs with me in it.
I shift at 6800 and go through the lights at 7000.
My car has run the best of 11.06 at over 121MPHs in FULL STREET TRIM, full exhaust hooked up, spare tire in the trunk, heater, stereo, 91 octane fuel and street tires.
I have put over 9500 miles on the motor so far plus around 65 1/4 passes so far this is with a small solid roller cam.
Car has gone 11.11 with a 3.73 gear that I run in the car most of the time.
I shift at 6800 and go through the lights at 7000.
My car has run the best of 11.06 at over 121MPHs in FULL STREET TRIM, full exhaust hooked up, spare tire in the trunk, heater, stereo, 91 octane fuel and street tires.
I have put over 9500 miles on the motor so far plus around 65 1/4 passes so far this is with a small solid roller cam.
Car has gone 11.11 with a 3.73 gear that I run in the car most of the time.
nothingbutdarts
Well-Known Member
How much work was done to the W2's port wise and what size valves?
I don't know. I think I'm gonna have to disagree on that one. The 4.10 with 28" tire is really the perfect in between combo for street driving and still getting decent times at the track. It's essentially the same ratio as a 26" tire with 3.73 gears.
Yes true. I was just trying to make a point that I think your car has much more potential than what it is showing. It just sounds like it needs a couple little tweaks and you'll be mid 11's no problem and maybe even low 11's.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Yeah, that's probably true. However, based on calculations I did with regard to tire size, gears and rpm, 4.30 was right on. If it were a race-only car, I probably would have stuck with the 4.30s. This is all on paper though and the 4.10 is in regardless of the math.
I actually built the 4.10 several years prior to getting the Duster. It's one of the aluminum center sections that Mopar was selling about 10 years back. I basically just wanted to put it in for no other reason than I got tired of looking at it on the shelf. I figured it would not make a huge difference and might even help. There is/was a lot of torque multiplication going on in the driveline with the low gear set in the trans and the 4.30 gears. Probably takes a little horsepower to get it going.
Agreed. :thumbup:
Most of the stuff I did to it over the last year was weight reduction and chassis. I gotta figure what was done (a lot - see here) should be worth a couple tenths, engine and trans being the only things that remained basically the same. Tuning and driving are the last hurdles.
And again, I'm just playing devil's advocate in regards to whether W2s are worth it. They are probably the best of the SBM iron heads so if you think about it that regard, they are worth switching to regardless of financial commitment.
DarrylsDart
Well-Known Member
The heads have a 2.06 intake and 1.60 ext.
The heads have been ported but not to within an inch of there life, the low and mid lift numbers get hurt when that is done.
Good knowledge. A buddy (runs a speed shop,knows Mopars), sold a roller cammed /11.7 actual comp 340 to a customer. The customer supplied a set of Manning /Brady ported standard castings ,2.02/1.60 X castings. With a 4000 stall converter,and 4:56's out back(27-28" slicks,),ra an 11.60 at 117. The customer wanted ported Edelbrocks, the shop owner quote" not worth the money, in the difference." I watched the heads get slightly over 300( this was Y2K era),on a reputable flow bench. All he picked up ,was a tenth. Trap speed, the same. Swapped a tunnel on,more can,all the tricks. He moved to Florida,car ran the same there. Needed seasonal maintenance (likes N20),picks up mildly W-2's .(Picked up,four tenths, with all the same but pistons/heads/valve train....). All on pump gas.
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