Appreciate some input on spark plug reading

[fishmens67]

Some use to wide of a gap.
Going by factory specs and plug recommendations can raise hell with tuning for modern fuels.

 

[Hysteric]

Way to copy and paste what you can’t put in your own words.

Insecure much. We are talking about spark plugs and combustion not your ego.

Very smart people did a lot of hard work to understand how this stuff works and were kind enough to share those discoveries. I suggest you learn from them.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Insecure much. We are talking about spark plugs and combustion not your ego.

Very smart people did a lot of hard work to understand how this stuff works and were kind enough to share those discoveries. I suggest you learn from them.

Arrogant much? Before you run your mouth any more than you have, you should understand I do learn from others. Mr. Vaught is just one example.

Post your own work in your own words. Oh wait, you are a forum talker living through others.

 

[Hysteric]

Arrogant much?

You can attack me all day it won't change the science and the reality of what really intelligent people discovered with all their testing.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

You can attack me all day it won't change the science and the reality of what what really intelligent people discovered with all their testing.

No ****? So you have went out and tested all your notions?

I trust NO ONE. I test everything I can. And you know what? Most of the bullshit going around as fact is in fact not factual.

I’m not attacking you. I’m calling you out on your bullshit. We’ve all seen it. You start asking question that YOU want answered because you think it will prove something.

You never ever post YOUR results of YOUR testing because you can’t.

That makes you at best a poser.

To the OP: put some fuel in it and watch the power drop. Do exactly what Hysteric says and see who knows what the **** they are talking about and who doesn’t.

 

[fishmens67]

I'm adding 1 step hotter plug gapped at .032 and adding 2 degs timing.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

I'm adding 1 step hotter plug gapped at .032 and adding 2 degs timing.

It won’t matter. Hysterical says he needs a smaller carb, more heat in the system and a bunch more fuel to it for it to be “right” according to him.

That’s a recipe to go slow and wipe out rings.

 

[fishmens67]

lean is mean, it's that line on the border.
It's a complete combustion issue, not a lean or rich issue.

 

[Hysteric]

No ****? So you have went out and tested all your notions?

No need to, Universities and Scientific Research Labs have spent Billions doing research that you have never read nor understand and come and pretend to do testing.......You'll find it at the library.

Let me guess you ran an engine on the dyno with O2's and now you know everything. Welcome to Timmy's research Institute.

I’m calling you out on your bullshit.

Its not my bullshit its people far smarter than me's Bullshit that they discovered. They were just kind enough to share it. Larry Widmer said this: In 1986 was given a blank check to design an “optimal” combustion space for an OE manufacturer. We mutually worked through hundreds of cylinder head / chamber idiosyncrasies. Larry says he runs 21 to 1 and guess who said the same thing.....

And you think you know something.......

I trust NO ONE.

I trust intelligent people who have shown to be honest hard working and competent in their work. Their results speak volumes.

You You You You You.........How about we make it about spark plugs?

 

[Hysteric]

It's a complete combustion issue,

Bingo!

 

[Hysteric]

It won’t matter. Hysterical says he needs a smaller carb, more heat in the system and a bunch more fuel to it for it to be “right” according to him.

That’s a recipe to go slow and wipe out rings.

All stuff to try when looking to improve combustion......

How to Pick the Best Carburetor for a Street/Strip Car

Have to laugh when the smaller carb ran quickest and idles best its 425 CI on street fuel:

As you can see from the Dragstrip Test Results chart, our guess that the 650 carburetor might run the quickest of the bunch turned out to have some validity. The smaller carburetor delivered the quickest move to the 330-foot mark and the quickest overall e.t. and fastest mph

I wonder what that's telling you this engine needs......what does the smaller carb do?

and a bunch more fuel

It needs to use more of the fuel it already gets......

 

[Newbomb Turk]

All stuff to try when looking to improve combustion......

How to Pick the Best Carburetor for a Street/Strip Car

Have to laugh when the smaller carb ran quickest and idles best its 425 CI on street fuel:

As you can see from the Dragstrip Test Results chart, our guess that the 650 carburetor might run the quickest of the bunch turned out to have some validity. The smaller carburetor delivered the quickest move to the 330-foot mark and the quickest overall e.t. and fastest mph

I wonder what that's telling you this engine needs......what does the smaller carb do?


It needs to use more of the fuel it already gets......

That whole article is a joke.

If you knew what you were talking about, you’d know I said so many times I can’t count that you can’t trust an O2 sensor. I’m well versed in how to read plugs.

Try again.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

That's because you can't......

Here's a really good thread on tuning. Tom Vaught was an Engineer at Holley and quoting Shrinker so would know more than the experts here. Start at post #150

SOME HOLLEY CARB TIPS PONTIAC forum

Some key take aways: testing was on a tunnel rammed 400 ci race engine.

"When I say to you guys that a particular engine hasn't got enough vaporization that is what I'm commenting on. How it looks inside the cylinder is like this, the AFR at ignition time is leaner than the average of the cylinder, lets say the average is 12.8 but at ignition time the AFR around the plug is AFR 14, the flame is going to grow slow and some of the flames energy is going to used in vaporizing the fuel thats not gas yet. So the flame kernel doesn't generate enough heat and you dont get a TAN plug, you also run the risk of extinguishing the flame if turbulence is poorly directed.

The burn time determines the peak cylinder pressure. Its the peak pressure that is one of the principle determining factors for the production of CO into CO2. If its not high enough you wont get the conversion underway so the exhaust contains high values of CO. If the CO is produced with a high oxygen consumption then the exhaust stream will be low in O2.

Now a WB theorist will tell you that the WB will use the unused O2 to convert the CO into CO2 etc and complete the burn to perfection and report a result. Well that's correct but the reality of this type of burn is that the O2 is used to make excess CO and forgo the conversion to CO2 because it just didn't get hot enough for long enough. This type of burn is far from correct as the theory books only want to consider.

There isn't the normal correct balance of O2 to CO of a rich burn. The CO2 levels are low and the WB catalyst needs the CO2 to break it apart and get some O2 to reform the CO to CO2, the reaction of which is O2 neutral. So the WB has to get the O2 from the outside air and that causes it to report a high O2 requirement thus richer than truth."

(The Late and Great Bruce Robertson AKA Shrinker!)

"So in simple Tom Vaught terms:

Learn how to read Plugs and don't trust the Air/Fuel Meter to be the Final Word on the Air/Fuel mixture going on inside the engine.

Tom V."

"Some can read them better than I can, but I am ok on the electrode and a bit down on the insulator. Shrinker was a PRO, (I was told) on that deal.
But again I am just posting suggestions to this thread (Not making assumptions based on just one piece of information from one piece of equipment.)

Tom V."

Oh and Tim let me know when you're Carbs are on and tuning Pro Stock engines I'll gladly sit at your feet to learn what you have figured out.

And just for the sake of truth I’ve read that entire thread a couple of years ago.

You make others say what you want. Shame on you.

 

[fishmens67]

You guy's do too much reading, and watch too much Youtube.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

You guy's do too much reading, and watch too much Youtube.

Not me. He wants to talk spark plugs yet that’s the last thing he’s talking about.

Like I said in my first post, from what I can see the plug is pretty close.

Unless I see it in person that’s as close as I can get.

 

[Demonx2]

I'm adding 1 step hotter plug gapped at .032 and adding 2 degs timing.

Curious why you suggest a hotter plug? If I'm reading the ground strap correctly, I'm fairly tight on timing using pretty much the standard heat range plug as these AR3924 Autolite's compare to the old Champion RJ12YC's (or RC12YC's - you get the point!). The burned clean area goes around the corner of the strap and gets somewhat close to the threads. Maybe a degree or 2 could be added but surely no more. Why do you suggest a hotter plug? I was thinking if I'm going to try a bit of spark, perhaps try it with a 1-step colder plug.

I was with a friend yesterday that basically raced from the 60's through the 90's. Raced many cars in many classes. Even has a Wally! I had him look at my plugs and went through the discussion with him. His opinion was it looks just about right, perhaps a tad rich, if anything, but not too bad.

I could just be facing what Don (@B3422w5 ) suggested - that being just not enough port flow and/or cam for the 4" stroke.

Florida won't be getting any cooler as the months progress so it will be interesting to see what response, if any, I can get if I make a change. Oh, and the car did just make a 45-50 mile round trip to a local cruise Friday afternoon/evening. Not bad given the 90 deg temps!! Here it was parked with our friend's Petty blue 72 Demon 340. Cool!!

 

[Hysteric]

And just for the sake of truth I’ve read that entire thread a couple of years ago.

You make others say what you want. Shame on you.

Its great you read its a shame you don't understand it.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Its great you read its a shame you don't understand it.

Yup.

 

[Bewy]

Can we clone post #62?
It's Newbomb Turk's modus operandi: if the article/description fits his theory of the world, it is 100% true. If it doesn't, then the article is a joke. We know who the joke is......

 

[mderoy340]

The heads are probably the limiting factor if your tune is optimized. I go down one jet size in May and another one down in July when it really gets hot and humid. The higher the humidity the lower amount of oxygen available to burn. My car runs best @12.4 flat fuel curve with the O2 sensor I currently have on 93 pump. Most folks just run pig rich all summer and dial slower.
You are at the mercy of whatever the quality the fuel is on the day you fill up. WaWa 93 is what I've been using lately. Find a station that sells a lot of fuel. Race gas is always the same quality so keep that in mind.
- Make sure your carb is sealed to the hood scoop to prevent hot under hood air from entering.
- A return style fuel system will keep the fuel and carb cooler.
- A dash camera mounted to view the important gauges helps to review after the run. (poor man's data log)
You may also want to calculate the converter slippage at the stripe in third gear. Wallace racing has all the formulas for that.

 

[Demonx2]

The heads are probably the limiting factor if your tune is optimized. I go down one jet size in May and another one down in July when it really gets hot and humid. The higher the humidity the lower amount of oxygen available to burn. My car runs best @12.4 flat fuel curve with the O2 sensor I currently have on 93 pump. Most folks just run pig rich all summer and dial slower.
You are at the mercy of whatever the quality the fuel is on the day you fill up. WaWa 93 is what I've been using lately. Find a station that sells a lot of fuel. Race gas is always the same quality so keep that in mind.
- Make sure your carb is sealed to the hood scoop to prevent hot under hood air from entering.
- A return style fuel system will keep the fuel and carb cooler.
- A dash camera mounted to view the important gauges helps to review after the run. (poor man's data log)
You may also want to calculate the converter slippage at the stripe in third gear. Wallace racing has all the formulas for that.

I also appreciate your input as I know you race quite a bit here in Florida. Perhaps one day I'll go over to Orlando Speedworld (think you race there?) instead of Gainesville to check it out. It's a bit over 100 miles which has kept me away so far!

As for fuel, you're spot on: I try to go where they turn it over alot. We have a WaWa and a Racetrac that are very, very busy so that's where I get fuel. "Back in the day," when I raced my Charger, I had to have a Cool Can on it or it would vapor lock every run. Kept that thing full of ice or bad things happened. This car does not have one and surprisingly, to date, has not shown it needs one for the past 2 summer seasons. BUT, it hasn't been through a Florida summer either!

My air cleaner sits right up in the 6-pack scoop but is not sealed so I'm sure it does get some of the underhood air. I'd like to get a GoPro type camera too. For now, I use my Autometer playback shiftlight to record the runs. It has a digital tach so I record all the staging, launch, and shifts after every run to make sure I'm not introducing variation through rpm differences.

Thx again!

 

[furrystump]

The most dangerous thing is someone with a little information who makes incorrect assumptions from that information. I regret this already, but answer me one simple question. How does the presence of lead in race fuel not change the appearance of the plug compared to an unleaded pump gas? You know that the lead lets unhardened valve seats survive by cushioning the seat by COATING the seat. This is more of a rhetorical question. I listen to everyone, but I haven’t heard a coherent thought from you yet.

 

[furrystump]

In regards to collecting data. I’m currently logging AFR,engine rpm,throttle position, drive shaft rpm and g force for a total investment of $700-$800. Not your Racepak plug and play sensors,but not real hard to do.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Can we clone post #62?
It's Newbomb Turk's modus operandi: if the article/description fits his theory of the world, it is 100% true. If it doesn't, then the article is a joke. We know who the joke is......

I have read the article. More than once. I've also watched the video on it once.

All I can say is there are lots of flaws in their methods.

You can't understand it either because you don't test. If Vizard says it, you take it as gospel.

 

[92b]

In regards to collecting data. I’m currently logging AFR,engine rpm,throttle position, drive shaft rpm and g force for a total investment of $700-$800. Not your Racepak plug and play sensors,but not real hard to do.

What is the data acquisition system you are using? Thank you.