At a tough spot career-wise... not sure what to do

-
MopaR&D

MopaR&D

Nerd Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
5,534
Reaction score
2,837
Location
Augusta, GA
Hey all, just wanted to get some advice from the great people on this forum and vent some of my frustrations regarding what to do with my career. I'm 26 years old next month, I went to school for a Mechanical Engineering degree and graduated May 2014. I applied for jobs left and right and got nothing for almost a year because even though I can engineer and build things on my own better than any of my classmates did my GPA wasn't the greatest and with this stuff it's all about the numbers. I finally started fixing hot-tubs for my friend's family business just so I wasn't dead broke. Did that a few months and then I got hooked up with my current job (started Nov. 2015) which is basically inspecting and occasionally repairing cell phone towers around the country. The job itself isn't too bad but the pay is crap and it's definitely not the industry I want to make a career in.

So here's where I am now. I figured out that not only is our economy still bad (duh), but the engineering industry(s) are SATURATED with people trying to find jobs. All I heard through college was "Oh wow you're studying engineering you're going to get a great job and make lots of money!" NOT!! My father, bless his heart, has offered to loan me money to go back to school and get my Master's degree so I can find a dang "real" job.

But one day I was watching YouTube videos about aircraft engines and happened to click on a video about crop dusting... when I saw that I was like "Holy S*** that looks awesome!!!" and then I saw another video explaining how there's very high demand for agricultural pilots and crop dusting because all of the current pilots are simply getting old and can't do it anymore. I looked it up and if I go to an Ag-specific flight school I could get an Ag pilot license in only three months and supposedly the money is good too (possible to break six figures in a year's work with some luck). But then my concern is if I become a pilot it would be even more difficult for me to get back into mechanical engineering which is really my passion (you guys think this is true??).

I need to get my life going here, I'm fed up with making chump change flying all over the country and doing what's essentially mundane tasks that insult my intelligence. Should I go for my Ag pilot's license and get things moving post-haste, or should I go back to school for my Master's (mind you the earliest I could enroll is for the Spring 2018 semester) and still not really be guaranteed anything, even though I love the subject?
 
I'd look for a lower paying job in the field you went to school for. At least there would be a chance to move up. Less steps backward in my opinion.
 
not sure what to tell you junior
i can tell you from experience that a job you took just to keep afloat might just be the best thing that ever happens to you
 
As a pilot there is no way you can go from zero flight experience to a job qualified ag pilot in 3 months. That is very dangerous, demanding flying. I know a couple people that do/have done it and it's not something you will get in quickly. 3 months for someone with a commercial pilots license maybe, even then it would be a very intense 3 months. I think you didn't read the fine print of that ad.
 
64 SRT8 Dart said:
Are you still in the Denver area?
Click to expand...

No I'm in Fort Collins but I've been applying for stuff all over the state, even started applying for jobs out-of-state too. I've applied for at least 10 positions at FCA in Michigan so far and they all got turned down.

@skep419 All of the jobs I've applied for are the most basic entry-level jobs which are the ones that everyone's applying for and there are very very few positions out there. With the economy crash of the late 2000's a lot of engineers got laid off and now all the positions you find are upper-level for very specific fields which have stringent experience requirements which I obviously don't have because no one gave me the chance... irony lol

@diymirage I see where you're coming from but I've been working for this company for a year and a half now and it still sucks @$$, no real opportunity to "move up" because the owner decided to move the company more towards doing lots of small-time projects dealing with simple stuff instead of the 'turn-key' type of operations that were going on previously. Meaning there's literally not even enough engineering work to be done by the people already employed there.
 
Backally said:
As a pilot there is no way you can go from zero flight experience to a job qualified ag pilot in 3 months. That is very dangerous, demanding flying. I know a couple people that do/have done it and it's not something you will get in quickly. 3 months for someone with a commercial pilots license maybe, even then it would be a very intense 3 months. I think you didn't read the fine print of that ad.
Click to expand...

Probably true but even six or nine months is still nothing compared to waiting nine months to get into school, go to school for a year, THEN look for jobs again all the while still making barely enough to pay rent. I currently live in my parent's house so I'm not completely broke all the time but I'm starting to feel like a loser, I can't stand it. It's pretty embarrassing to go on dates with girls and have to admit sooner or later I live at my parents' house with my mom and 2 younger brothers, and I have a frickin' BSME.
 
Last edited:
Been years since I went though it, but will take you a concentrated year to get a commercial license, probably $20k minimum. Then your ag school. Then find someone to put/trust a green, minimum time pilot in a $120k airplane flying heavy, low level almost acrobatic maneuvers. Look into it very close before you put any money in expecting a fast return.
 
Backally said:
Been years since I went though it, but will take you a concentrated year to get a commercial license, probably $20k minimum. Then your ag school. Then find someone to put/trust a green, minimum time pilot in a $120k airplane flying heavy, low level almost acrobatic maneuvers. Look into it very close before you put any money in expecting a fast return.
Click to expand...

EDIT:

So... what does this mean then? Not trying to argue or anything but does that mean these people are lying?
Our Courses
 
Last edited:
No worries, been almost 40 years ago since I did this so had to look up some stuff.

Not sure what price they quote, but it's usually FAA minimum flight times. 40 flight for a private lic, but in reality the average is something like 60. So figure an extra 20 hours at $120ish per hour in a single engine. Ag pilots will fly turbine, when you get to that point the price is going to go up a bunch. You need a minimum of 250 flight hours for commercial, that's doable cause they want something like 50 hours of cross country where your just driving around. 4 hours in a single engine airplane in a day is a busy day, most schools you may get 2 a day if it's local air work. Plus the ground school. I find it very difficult to believe this can be done in less than a 24/7/365 period. I would get good references, and talk to the Flight Standards District Office in that area to see what they can tell you about the operation. There are some sketchy operators out there.

If you want to fly for a living, your degree will help when looking for a job. Ag flying is hard work, early morning before the wind kicks up, you handling hazardous chemicals, and if there is a problem your real close to the ground with little options. There are a lot of opportunities out there right now, airlines are hiring like mad. If you really like flying, do it but as far as filling a hole in you employment resume your roi is deep.

A masters in engineering would not be a bad thing. It seems a masters is almost the standard anymore.
 
Fort Collins has 150,000 people with the college and health care the top employers. I see some manufacturing and tech and none of those have any entry level engineering positions? Getting the 1st job can sometimes be the hardest, but you can learn and grow from there. And in today's world, two years could be enough to move to another company - which is usually 20% raise (or why leave your existing job). You have a great degree, there is a lot to do with it. Check out patent lawyers. Many areas to use your knowledge, do your work, invest your time and don't expect to start at the top
 
Backally said:
No worries, been almost 40 years ago since I did this so had to look up some stuff.

Not sure what price they quote, but it's usually FAA minimum flight times. 40 flight for a private lic, but in reality the average is something like 60. So figure an extra 20 hours at $120ish per hour in a single engine. Ag pilots will fly turbine, when you get to that point the price is going to go up a bunch. You need a minimum of 250 flight hours for commercial, that's doable cause they want something like 50 hours of cross country where your just driving around. 4 hours in a single engine airplane in a day is a busy day, most schools you may get 2 a day if it's local air work. Plus the ground school. I find it very difficult to believe this can be done in less than a 24/7/365 period. I would get good references, and talk to the Flight Standards District Office in that area to see what they can tell you about the operation. There are some sketchy operators out there.

If you want to fly for a living, your degree will help when looking for a job. Ag flying is hard work, early morning before the wind kicks up, you handling hazardous chemicals, and if there is a problem your real close to the ground with little options. There are a lot of opportunities out there right now, airlines are hiring like mad. If you really like flying, do it but as far as filling a hole in you employment resume your roi is deep.

A masters in engineering would not be a bad thing. It seems a masters is almost the standard anymore.
Click to expand...

Cool thanks for the info, did you happen to check out the link I posted? They make some pretty amazing claims compared to what you're saying here.
 
Yes, they are lying. People selling school programs are working to get butts in seats, which makes THEIR job secure. They don't give a damn about you, nor do they care about employers in the community. If they did, they would be proactive in interacting with industry and placing their students. They would be someone that actually cares about what they do, and the people they interact with.

How much machinists training was involved in your BSME? Have you considered hitting up union halls? Apprenticeship, then journeyman. It makes good money, save as much as you can. Once you have that experience, plus your degree, you'll have a pretty hefty resume. That's if you even want to work for someone else after gaining that experience... There is nothing wrong with blue collar work.

Also, remember that a lot of finding a job still boils down to who knows you. Patronage, nepotism whatever you want to call it. It is real, it sucks. To combat that you may want to just hit the pavement and sell yourself to businesses. Cold call them. Do not leave until they tell you NO three times. Tell them that you'd like to intern for them and show them your work and work ethic. Your work ethic is what will get you remembered. If they do not notice it, then they are not worth working for.
 
cudajames said:
Fort Collins has 150,000 people with the college and health care the top employers. I see some manufacturing and tech and none of those have any entry level engineering positions? Getting the 1st job can sometimes be the hardest, but you can learn and grow from there. And in today's world, two years could be enough to move to another company - which is usually 20% raise (or why leave your existing job). You have a great degree, there is a lot to do with it. Check out patent lawyers. Many areas to use your knowledge, do your work, invest your time and don't expect to start at the top
Click to expand...

They do occasionally have entry-level positions but there are so many damn fresh engineering grads nowadays every single one has 100+ applicants. I know I'm just whining here but it's a real pain to spend an hour or more polishing your resume and writing a good cover letter just to not even get a response at all.

Sometimes I feel like I should have gone to vocational school instead (that's not a joke, at all).
 
Ottmundr said:
Yes, they are lying. People selling school programs are working to get butts in seats, which makes THEIR job secure. They don't give a damn about you, nor do they care about employers in the community. If they did, they would be proactive in interacting with industry and placing their students. They would be someone that actually cares about what they do, and the people they interact with.

How much machinists training was involved in your BSME? Have you considered hitting up union halls? Apprenticeship, then journeyman. It makes good money, save as much as you can. Once you have that experience, plus your degree, you'll have a pretty hefty resume. That's if you even want to work for someone else after gaining that experience... There is nothing wrong with blue collar work.

Also, remember that a lot of finding a job still boils down to who knows you. Patronage, nepotism whatever you want to call it. It is real, it sucks. To combat that you may want to just hit the pavement and sell yourself to businesses. Cold call them. Do not leave until they tell you NO three times. Tell them that you'd like to intern for them and show them your work and work ethic. Your work ethic is what will get you remembered. If they do not notice it, then they are not worth working for.
Click to expand...

This is great advice THANK YOU... I am very hands-on and would have no problem working in a machine shop, in fact I've considered that many times. I love making things and using machines. When I was doing Senior Design I ended up getting a bad grade because my professor was a retarded @$$hole who thought that time spent on a job correlates to how well it's done; I was one of the few kids in the class who would get all of my prototype parts spot-on on the first try, and the on-campus machinist who ran the shop was probably the coolest person in the whole school. I would spend all day in there chatting it up with him about hot rods and muscle cars, he would even let me bring in car parts to machine on his stuff.

Companies now have done a pretty good job of taking away the "cold call/walk-in" method, like they don't even have a phone number to call and if you walk in asking about a job they just say "Go to our website." I'll still try that though, my confidence in my abilities has gone up quite a bit since I graduated college and realized how useless 80% of my generation is.
 
Last edited:
Yea I did. That's why I said get good references, and talk to the Faa about them. I find their statements hard to believe unless your a Chuck Yeager. How many of their graduates get actual flying jobs, and I wouldn't trust asking them and getting accurate answers. AG pilots I know worked into it. Dangerous work 30 feet above the ground for someone with no flight time.
 
Backally said:
Yea I did. That's why I said get good references, and talk to the Faa about them. I find their statements hard to believe unless your a Chuck Yeager. How many of their graduates get actual flying jobs, and I wouldn't trust asking them and getting accurate answers. AG pilots I know worked into it. Dangerous work 30 feet above the ground for someone with no flight time.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reality check I will definitely look into that deeply before deciding.
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
Probably true but even six or nine months is still nothing compared to waiting nine months to get into school, go to school for a year, THEN look for jobs again all the while still making barely enough to pay rent. I currently live in my parent's house so I'm not completely broke all the time but I'm starting to feel like a loser, I can't stand it. It's pretty embarrassing to go on dates with girls and have to admit sooner or later I live at my parents' house with my mom and 2 younger brothers,
Click to expand...

Nothing comes easy. Sounds like you thought you'd be able to snap your fingers and choose which job offer paid the most $$ shortly after graduating. Rarely can one walk into a dream job fresh out of school without spending some time in the trenches. Going into the debt hole more by getting your Masters probably isn't the best idea either. Depending on how reputable the graduate school is, having a very little experience for the group/team work projects in is going to make it more difficult. Having 22 to 28 year olds with little experience but think they are 'know it alls' in graduate school is frustrating for the 30+ year olds who actually have real world experience who also know they don't 'know it all'. If you do get your Masters, you will then complain that you are over qualified for all the entry level jobs that 24 to 26 year olds are applying for yet you won't get the jobs for folks who have 5 to 10 yrs experience since you don't have the experience.

That crop duster gig isn't so simple because if it were, everyone would be a crop duster pilot. As another pilot has already pointed out, the investment to get your ppl and then commercial license will put you in the poor house pretty quickly. Then you'll have to work in the middle of nowhere as a pilot since the pilots with experience will be flying in the desirable places.

As for the girls you go on dates with now, if you think you need a good job or a place of your own to get respect/credibility, then you need to work on your confidence. They shouldn't like you for what/where you are/have but they should like you for you instead (ie: personality/character).
 
H22A4 said:
Nothing comes easy. Sounds like you thought you'd be able to snap your fingers and choose which job offer paid the most $$ shortly after graduating. Rarely can one walk into a dream job fresh out of school without spending some time in the trenches. Going into the debt hole more by getting your Masters probably isn't the best idea either. Depending on how reputable the graduate school is, having a very little experience for the group/team work projects in is going to make it more difficult. Having 22 to 28 year olds with little experience but think they are 'know it alls' in graduate school is frustrating for the 30+ year olds who actually have real world experience who also know they don't 'know it all'. If you do get your Masters, you will then complain that you are over qualified for all the entry level jobs that 24 to 26 year olds are applying for yet you won't get the jobs for folks who have 5 to 10 yrs experience since you don't have the experience.

That crop duster gig isn't so simple because if it were, everyone would be a crop duster pilot. As another pilot has already pointed out, the investment to get your ppl and then commercial license will put you in the poor house pretty quickly. Then you'll have to work in the middle of nowhere as a pilot since the pilots with experience will be flying in the desirable places.

As for the girls you go on dates with now, if you think you need a good job or a place of your own to get respect/credibility, then you need to work on your confidence. They shouldn't like you for what/where you are/have but they should like you for you instead (ie: personality/character).
Click to expand...

I mean a little bit, initially, but really I have no problem admitting I don't know sh** about something. I know what I don't know, and I always respect people with credibility. I am aware that I'm not really worth much of anything to a potential employer unless I prove myself. My attitude going into grad school would be the opposite honestly, I just want to open up my brain and soak up as much knowledge as possible from people who know more than I do. I also have experience from this job working in teams, in fact it's very rare to have the opportunity to do a solo site visit; it's pretty much regulation that unless you're doing strictly ground work you NEED to have a person with you for safety reasons or you can get in serious trouble (if you don't fall and end up in the hospital or die first). And I've learned a lot about people, having been set up with different work partners multiple times.

From what I'm reading here now the crop duster deal is looking less attractive, might still look into it but I'm definitely skeptical now.

Thanks for that last part, you are right actually regarding the ladies... when I do tell them I live at home in an embarrassed tone the response is usually "So? There's nothing wrong with that my friend/brother/cousin/whoever is in the same boat." I guess part of it comes from the pressure my dad put on me as a kid to be successful, I used to be all angst-y about it but now I am so thankful he pushed me as hard as he did because no joke I'd probably be in jail for selling drugs or something stupid like that if I didn't have the strong parents I do. I doubt I would have even bothered to finish high school.

I never thought I'd land my dream job fresh out of college but I had no idea it would be this difficult to find ANY job.
 
Here is an idea. Have you tried the military? I spent 20 years in the USAF and retired as a Major. With an engineering degree, they'd send you to Officer Candidate school. Pay for Officers is very good. It certainly wouldn't hurt to talk to them. I know that all branches are always looking for people with engineering degrees.
 
harrisonm said:
Here is an idea. Have you tried the military? I spent 20 years in the USAF and retired as a Major. With an engineering degree, they'd send you to Officer Candidate school. Pay for Officers is very good. It certainly wouldn't hurt to talk to them. I know that all branches are always looking for people with engineering degrees.
Click to expand...

Hmmm I have thought of that before but not much recently I kind of forgot about it. We have the USAF Academy in Colorado Springs I actually did a quasi-internship in 2010 and my dad taught there for a while (as a civilian he's not military). I've always thought it would feel awesome to accomplish something like that, becoming an officer in the military...
 
2 rounds of college for me. Last round 6-7 yrs ago went thru for environmental tech at age 43. I wanted to get into water treatment, knew I would be good at it. Make good money (now anyway). Huge sacrifices both lori and made. I was away from home for 2 years. Now back at home and 15 minutes to work.
Sorry for the long story, point im trying to make, after graduating and hoping/praying/trying and applying to endless local jobs, 2 years later with no success I had to take a job 2 provinces away with a towns Public Works dept. Got my foot in the door, and progressed to where I am now.
Water/wastewater operations and infrastructure is a good secure well paying job and might be a good fit for you?
Go study and write the tests. No schooling needed but it definitely helps. Sacrifices may need to be made. I'll be 50 this year.
Good luck
 
Did you intern with your degree or just go to school... Internship will help you get in the door and see if you can get picked up soon...

Thank NAFTA for sending most of the jobs to other countries...

Hopefully Trump will get more jobs back here for the economy to pick up....
 
I finished my B.S. in Aerospace engineering in 2002. I never went into the industry, but that was a personal choice. Economically things were pretty different, but even then most of the engineers that I knew that started working right after graduation started working for companies they had done internships for. A lot of it really does depend on who you know, especially for that first job. It's more important than GPA, that's for sure. The average engineering GPA at UCLA when I was there was a 2.7. No kidding. Like the professors didn't know what a curve was. In fact most of my friends that got jobs right away didn't have great GPA's, the people with great GPA's went to grad school.

The other thing about Engineering is that it's geographic. Mechanical less so than Aerospace, but it's still relevant. In Aerospace you'd better have wanted to live in Seattle, San Jose, Los Angeles or Pasedena, or San Diego. Following that Houston or Cape Canaveral. Yeah sure, it sounds cliche to name off NASA launch sites but guess what, that's where the businesses are. And not just NASA, but all the contractors they use surround sites like that. LA was big because of Edwards AFB. It even depends what your specialty is. If you're into commercial aviation you're looking at Boeing and Seattle, or some of their smaller operations in Los Angeles. Rockets? Well they launch from Edwards, so there's companies in LA. Otherwise Florida. Military aviation? Lockheed has a presence in San Jose, Boeing had people in LA, etc. Without going crazy you see what I'm saying right? The large engineering companies hire the most people, they're the one's that hire the most entry level folks. So, if you aren't living where there are large engineering companies, you're going to have a rough time. It's one of the reasons I didn't go into the industry in Aerospace. An entry level Aerospace Engineer's wages don't actually get you that far in Pasedena, or San Jose, San Diego, or even Seattle. Rent takes half your paycheck right off the bat. My favorite professor was a PHD working for Boeing, teaching a class or two at UCLA on the side, working 60+ hours a week, going to work on Sunday to meet deadlines and he was sharing an apartment, he had a roommate still! Anyway. Mechanical is a bigger world, but look at the big companies in your area of expertise. Where they're at is probably where you should be if you want an entry level job.

Grad school is a good opportunity if you want to stay in engineering. Yes, there's some risk that you'll be overqualified for some jobs. But the thing is that in the engineering field it's hard to have too much education. It's harder at the entry level to distinguish yourself from other folks. As you move up there's less competition, because lets face it studying engineering is NOT easy. And the more qualifications you bring to the table, ie, a master's degree, the less some of that other things matter. If you've got a bachelor's in engineering getting a master's in engineering while you're working in industry is not something everyone does. You have to go back to school, most people are not doing that on the side. What I'm saying is that engineer's with master's degrees don't necessarily have a ton of work experience, so your disadvantage might not be as much as in other fields where people can advance their education while still in the industry. If you do go back, make sure you make connections. Work that internship. Make connections with some of the professors. Not necessarily the tenured guys either, the specialty guys they bring in to teach the build class. The one's that actually are working in the field and teaching a class on the side. UCLA had a few of them, they were the best professors I had. Even the professors that are tenured though may have decent connections. So, if you go back it's not just about checking the box saying you have your Master's. Use the resources at that school to make connections to industry. And pick a school that has connections to the field you want to work in. UCLA is great for space stuff, for example. Edwards AFB is in the back yard, and because of that so is JPL, etc. Because they launch stuff out of Edwards. So, when you apply for grad school, look for places that have ties to what you want to do so you can make connections in the field you want to be in.

And the engineering jobs didn't leave. They never did. Some of the manufacturing jobs did, sure. Blame that on the CEO's padding their pockets. But the big engineering companies are still pulling specialty folks in on H1B visa's because there aren't enough of them here.
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
This is great advice THANK YOU... I am very hands-on and would have no problem working in a machine shop, in fact I've considered that many times. I love making things and using machines. When I was doing Senior Design I ended up getting a bad grade because my professor was a retarded @$$hole who thought that time spent on a job correlates to how well it's done; I was one of the few kids in the class who would get all of my prototype parts spot-on on the first try, and the on-campus machinist who ran the shop was probably the coolest person in the whole school. I would spend all day in there chatting it up with him about hot rods and muscle cars, he would even let me bring in car parts to machine on his stuff.

Companies now have done a pretty good job of taking away the "cold call/walk-in" method, like they don't even have a phone number to call and if you walk in asking about a job they just say "Go to our website." I'll still try that though, my confidence in my abilities has gone up quite a bit since I graduated college and realized how useless 80% of my generation is.
Click to expand...
I agree w/ the last 7 words in this post. There are few kids now that actually had to work growing up. They expect to start at the top .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top