Bad Hadraulic Lifters, Maybe?

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73Swinger318

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Ok just recently pulled the engine to put in a windage tray and an 8 quart pan. I got the deep sump pick up also. Got the motor back in and it runs and sounds like crap. Rough idle and seems to surge while idling. Its making all kinds on noise on the driver’s side of the motor. Sounds like a rattling and maybe a knock. I believe I narrowed it down to valve noise. Took the rockers off. Pushed down on the push rods and 5 of the lifters were spongy. I could push the tops down about 1/16 of an inch on a few of them. The other 3 felt firm. Not to knowledgeable about hydraulic lifters but shouldn’t they all be firm. Could this be the cause of the rattling valve noise because there no cushion when the valves close and the knock and rough surging idle because the valves are opening late? Also, could there also be a possibility that I’m not flowing oil causing them to collapse?:banghead:
 
I think fishy and i are thinking the same thing. If the pressure is down some, did you check the clearance on the pickup to pan?
 
It ran fine prior to the changes. The pick up nearly touches the bottom of the sump. I checked the pressure today. No pressure. I'm thinking I lost the prime on the pump. Now to figure out how to get it to prime without pulling stuff apart. I was thinking maybe its possible to push oil down to the discharge side of the pump through the oil cavity? Its got clean fresh oil in it. Maybe drain some out into a clean pan and use something to push that oil down through the oil pressure switch cavity to the pump or just add an additional quart to get it going then drain the extra quart out. Any thoughts on how to get it primed?
 
Did you remove the oil pump when you installed the windage tray?
 
Did you diss-mantle the pump,, and if you did, did you try to turn it by hand, before installing it? If you inverted the idler gear,, it can lock up the pump...

Is it a used pan, and pick-up? Is it possible a piece of debris in the pickup tube, from a previous engine, jammed the pump?
 
73Swinger318 said:
It ran fine prior to the changes. The pick up nearly touches the bottom of the sump. I checked the pressure today. No pressure. I'm thinking I lost the prime on the pump. Now to figure out how to get it to prime without pulling stuff apart. I was thinking maybe its possible to push oil down to the discharge side of the pump through the oil cavity? Its got clean fresh oil in it. Maybe drain some out into a clean pan and use something to push that oil down through the oil pressure switch cavity to the pump or just add an additional quart to get it going then drain the extra quart out. Any thoughts on how to get it primed?
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I highly doubt it's a "lost it's prime" issue as oil pump clearances are so tight they'll rarely have issues pulling up oil. You need an oil pickup gap of at least 1/4" and preferably 3/8" or it can't suck up enough oil for the system. If the pickup is nearly touching the bottom of the pan as you say that's the issue.
 
BTW, 1/4',to 3/8" oil screen to pan clearance,optimal.
 
Ok, so the engine ran just fine. Then you pulled the pan and pump out to replace it with a new one. Now you have Zero oil pressure, engine is knocking and running bad. Im sorry to say, the engine is SCREWED. The oil pump is either broken or not installed right? Did you have to remove any main bolts to install the tray? Did you forget to torque them back down if you did remove them? Did you fill it back up with oil?

Its not magic, you messed something up and you need to pull the pan off and check out what you did wrong.
 
did you forget to put oil pump drive shaft in?? it coulda stripped or broke,...need a lil clearance on that pickup too,..did you prime pump for you put it on??
 
MRL Performance said:
Ok, so the engine ran just fine. Then you pulled the pan and pump out to replace it with a new one. Now you have Zero oil pressure, engine is knocking and running bad. Im sorry to say, the engine is SCREWED. The oil pump is either broken or not installed right? Did you have to remove any main bolts to install the tray? Did you forget to torque them back down if you did remove them? Did you fill it back up with oil?

Its not magic, you messed something up and you need to pull the pan off and check out what you did wrong.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the SCREWED diagnosis. Yes I removed the main bolts and yes I torqued them as required. Yes I put oil back in.
 
73Swinger318 said:
Thanks for the SCREWED diagnosis
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LOL Im sorry. That was kinda mean. All Im saying is if the engine is really knocking then you have a big problem. Your human, and mistakes happen. I once put an engine together and forgot to tighten the oil pump bolts. It had very little oil pressure and wiped the rod/main bearings out in less than a minute.

First thing I would check is the oil pump drive and see if the hex got broken off. This is fairly common, I have seen it many times. If that is good, get a priming rod and try to pump the oil with a drill and see if you get any pressure or resistance while turning the pump with said drill. If you dont get any oil pressure you are pulling it back out and taking the pan off to investigate what went wrong.
 
inertia said:
Did you diss-mantle the pump,, and if you did, did you try to turn it by hand, before installing it? If you inverted the idler gear,, it can lock up the pump...

Is it a used pan, and pick-up? Is it possible a piece of debris in the pickup tube, from a previous engine, jammed the pump?
Click to expand...

No did not take the pump apart. It is a new Milodon pan and pick up.
 
dirty white boy said:
did you forget to put oil pump drive shaft in?? it coulda stripped or broke,...need a lil clearance on that pickup too,..did you prime pump for you put it on??
Click to expand...
impossible, the engine would never re-fire. the distributor runs off the oil pump drive
 
MRL Performance said:
LOL Im sorry. That was kinda mean. All Im saying is if the engine is really knocking then you have a big problem. Your human, and mistakes happen. I once put an engine together and forgot to tighten the oil pump bolts. It had very little oil pressure and wiped the rod/main bearings out in less than a minute.

First thing I would check is the oil pump drive and see if the hex got broken off. This is fairly common, I have seen it many times. If that is good, get a priming rod and try to pump the oil with a drill and see if you get any pressure or resistance while turning the pump with said drill. If you dont get any oil pressure you are pulling it back out and taking the pan off to investigate what went wrong.
Click to expand...

You have to pull the timing chain off to spin it with a drill right?
 
73AbodEE said:
no, with the oil pump drive out, the priming rod goes in place of it with a drill.
Click to expand...

A cheap priming tool I made years ago is I cut the gear off a stock la oil pump drive, and welded an la push rod to it.
It cost me nothing but I have used it for over 20 years.
 
sireland67 said:
A cheap priming tool I made years ago is I cut the gear off a stock la oil pump drive, and welded an la push rod to it.
It cost me nothing but I have used it for over 20 years.
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thats a good idea, i will be making my own soon as well. i think summit has them for 10 bucks plus shipping, but im cheap lol
 
73AbodEE said:
impossible, the engine would never re-fire. the distributor runs off the oil pump drive
Click to expand...

The oil pump runs off the distributor drive, not the other way around.
(So it would start, but not have oil pressure)

Still early I guess. :D
 
TrailBeast said:
The oil pump runs off the distributor drive, not the other way around.
(So it would start, but not have oil pressure)

Still early I guess. :D
Click to expand...
how is the distributor going to turn if this isnt in it ?

140.jpg


still early yet LOL
 
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