Beginner Road Track Racing: Feedback on Engine Options Wanted

[junkyardhero]

A warmed over 5.9 will be just fine for starters, but you will need to invest in cooling and oil control for it to last.

this. all of this. aaaalllllll of it.

hello $700 road race oil pan, $800 accusump, $300 oil cooler and like $400 in hose and fittings.

then we move on to a $1000 radiator, plus... well most of the same as above.

 

[Machineman63]

30 year SCCA racer... my class was GT-4 / also GT-lite . not a Mopar unfortunately but a full tube framed 200SX.
My most fun was when I had a street based motor in a race chassis, it took very little maintenance , ran on pump gas and I got tons of track time.
The biggest enemy of a racer is seat time, if you cant go fast with 100 hp on a road course 600 wont do you any good. you have to learn to drive and practice.
Track time and tires are expensive , spend your first money on a good chassis (full cage) and big brakes , I recommend an FIA homologated fuel cell and it may be required by some sanctioning bodies.

contact me by message I'll be more than happy to give you directions

 

[Torqueflite]

30 year SCCA racer... my class was GT-4 / also GT-lite . not a Mopar unfortunately but a full tube framed 200SX.
My most fun was when I had a street based motor in a race chassis, it took very little maintenance , ran on pump gas and I got tons of track time.
The biggest enemy of a racer is seat time, if you cant go fast with 100 hp on a road course 600 wont do you any good. you have to learn to drive and practice.
Track time and tires are expensive , spend your first money on a good chassis (full cage) and big brakes , I recommend an FIA homologated fuel cell and it may be required by some sanctioning bodies.

contact me by message I'll be more than happy to give you directions

thanks for your input and offer to contact you. I agree that I don't want to start off seeking the most power out of the engine since I want to get used to things and work my way up.

 

[MopaR&D]

I agree with @TT5.9mag

But I think it's more than being competitive. You want a safe, fun to drive car that handles well and has good driving dynamics.

This means expensive brakes, tires, cage, restraints, seats, helmets, suits, completely upgraded chassis, suspension. A warmed over 5.9 will be just fine for starters, but you will need to invest in cooling and oil control for it to last.

All this is just time and money. Just depends on how much of each you've got, really. I like the Miata idea because a lot of those bases are covered right out of the gate and you have a legendarily reliable and fun to drive car you can learn in.

Our beloved Mopars were not endowed with any kind of responsive handling in mind. So there's a lot of re-engineering required to build a fun track car.

Idk if I fully agree with that last part, maybe to some degree. @BergmanAutoCraft has already done the "re-engineering" also @Mattax and @72bluNblu have a lot of experience with this. I've modified the factory suspension on my '70 Duster to where it's worlds better than stock even though it still doesn't even have good shocks or aftermarket upper control arms.

I did track days with friends who drove Miatas and while they were competitive and are a great platform it's just so... boring. They're like the LS of the entry-level track car world. IMO better option is a SN95 or newer Mustang, those at least can be easily upgraded for more power when the need arise. Miata engines are quite fragile even in stock form.

 

[273]

What class is this for ?
What are the rules ?
Do you want to be competitive ?
Win seasons or the odd race or just have fun ?
Handing is gonna matter more then the engine.

You kind of have to know the rules inside and out to find any advantages, when I wanted to do Time Attack the rules seemed to put more value on stock hp ratings of the engine than modifications.
So I figured modifying the lowest rated V8 engine would of gave me the best advantage why my name is 273, cause it was gonna be either based on 2 bbl 273 or a 1980 (i think) 318 cause it was the lowest rated 318, would of been whatever engine they valued less but then I realized I'm not well off and this type of racing is above my pay grade among other things.

 

[HankRearden]

this. all of this. aaaalllllll of it.

hello $700 road race oil pan, $800 accusump, $300 oil cooler and like $400 in hose and fittings.

then we move on to a $1000 radiator, plus... well most of the same as above.

Yeah, I've never been on a race course but in my younger days I drove like I was.
I've blown up a couple LA's winging cars through turns at high rpm for extended periods.
My theory is the sustained high RPM sent all the oil to the top end and I starrved the oil pump pickup.
Even if parking lot autocross racing I would have a windage tray and baffled oil pan minimum.
When I build an engine I always make sure to do everything I know how to get the oil to drain back to the pan.

 

[Inertia]

I would like to suggest, this is going to be a long process, it may be a ton of fun to go to a track near you and see if you can join a crew of a current race team ( any class ).
You will learn aspects of "racecraft", rules, courtesies, car building, stuff you're gonna work on, so get to see it as it should be, and then bent, lol.
The other reason will likely be finding other team members to give you a hand, pass on their experiences, you actually join a "family".
Also consider picking up a "used racecar" any class, to go learn and have fun, and likely find more help.
I built and raced super modifieds and late model stock in the 70's and 80's, my daughter dragged my *** out of my recliner a few years ago to build her hubby a racecar, cuz he won all kinds a stuff I-racing against Hamlin etc.
After 6 yrs of racing we won 2 Championships and set 2 different track records in the oldest "used" car there.
Enjoy your new family.

 

[Torqueflite]

What class is this for ?
What are the rules ?
Do you want to be competitive ?
Win seasons or the odd race or just have fun ?
Handing is gonna matter more then the engine.

You kind of have to know the rules inside and out to find any advantages, when I wanted to do Time Attack the rules seemed to put more value on stock hp ratings of the engine than modifications.
So I figured modifying the lowest rated V8 engine would of gave me the best advantage why my name is 273, cause it was gonna be either based on 2 bbl 273 or a 1980 (i think) 318 cause it was the lowest rated 318, would of been whatever engine they valued less but then I realized I'm not well off and this type of racing is above my pay grade among other things.

I'm not planning on class racing or focusing on competition aside from pushing myself. I joined a regional club and will be competing against those cars when we rent the track. When not running on those days, I will run at open track days to have fun and learn. The goal is to have a classic Mopar on the track, learn to drive it, make improvements as I go, and have fun.

 

[Torqueflite]

I would like to suggest, this is going to be a long process, it may be a ton of fun to go to a track near you and see if you can join a crew of a current race team ( any class ).
You will learn aspects of "racecraft", rules, courtesies, car building, stuff you're gonna work on, so get to see it as it should be, and then bent, lol.
The other reason will likely be finding other team members to give you a hand, pass on their experiences, you actually join a "family".
Also consider picking up a "used racecar" any class, to go learn and have fun, and likely find more help.
I built and raced super modifieds and late model stock in the 70's and 80's, my daughter dragged my *** out of my recliner a few years ago to build her hubby a racecar, cuz he won all kinds a stuff I-racing against Hamlin etc.
After 6 yrs of racing we won 2 Championships and set 2 different track records in the oldest "used" car there.
Enjoy your new family.

Thanks for the advice. I'm not interested in class or competitive racing but building the Valiant to have fun on the track at open days and with a local club when we rent the track. There are very experienced racers in the club and some who race in regional classes, so I hope to learn a lot from them in the ways you describe. I will be the only vintage Mopar in the club, so it will be a nice challenge to run with them. There are a few running 60's/70's Fords and Chevys.

 

[273]

If for just fun and learning, what rpms will you most likely reach at top end in high gear, you at least want to be able to turn that, doesn't need to make peak there. As for torque you want the most you can hook up and control, A milder engine that can breathe to the rpms necessary probably better for learning, your chassis setup tires and brakes and diving abilities are gonna matter more than 50 or so hp. If need over 6000 rpms I'd probably get a 5.2l magnum refresh add a decent cam (reground?) air gap and headers and call it a day and if need under 6000 rpms get a 5.9l.