Bell-housing alignment help

-
Pardon my ignorance, as I've only slapped low budget cars together, but I've never done this on any of my cars before! I know the closer to perfect the better, but what are the benefits/disadvantages and what would the symptoms be of one done incorrectly?
 
vntned said:
Pardon my ignorance, as I've only slapped low budget cars together, but I've never done this on any of my cars before! I know the closer to perfect the better, but what are the benefits/disadvantages and what would the symptoms be of one done incorrectly?
Click to expand...


Breaking the front bearing retainer. Hard shifting. Clutch chatter. I'm sure there is more, but that's the big stuff.
 
yellow rose said:
I'm over in Selah. I can UPS it to you if you want. Just so you know...it's ORANGE. I didn't paint it that color.

Let me know.
Click to expand...
Let me figure out this one before we spend coin on UPS. More than likely I am doing something wrong. Prior to taking it apart the 4 speed was shifting nicely and I had zero complaints.
 
WSUTARD said:
Let me figure out this one before we spend coin on UPS. More than likely I am doing something wrong. Prior to taking it apart the 4 speed was shifting nicely and I had zero complaints.
Click to expand...


Ok let me know. I'll cover the shipping. It can't be that much. Hell, I can drive over there in a couple of hours!!!
 
Set the indicator to check the rear face of the bell. Maybe the bell is cocked.
If good, maybe pull the dowels and see what the housing bolts will allow.
 
RustyCowel brought his small indicator and confirmed my readings.
0 @12
.05 @ 3
.094 @ 6
.06 @ 9

Not sure what to do at this point. My plan was to get the engine back in the car this weekend. I am already 3 weeks behind my schedule and am on hold till I get it back in. Previous to pulling the engine I would never have guessed there was a "problem".
 
The max I've sen is ROBBMC's 21 degree deals. You need to move it down towards 6 by .047... So I would suggest you get the .021 and re-measure. If it had no issues before (and I can't imagine it didn't...lol) you will be "better", even if it's not totally in spec. The issues I've sen usually revolve around poorer shifting and vibrations.
 
moper said:
The max I've sen is ROBBMC's 21 degree deals. You need to move it down towards 6 by .047... So I would suggest you get the .021 and re-measure. If it had no issues before (and I can't imagine it didn't...lol) you will be "better", even if it's not totally in spec. The issues I've sen usually revolve around poorer shifting and vibrations.
Click to expand...
I did have weird slow pulsing vibrations in the car at a stop. Other than that, I had no complaints.
 
Hold the phone a sec..... looking at all the pix, it looks like several bellhousing bolts are not installed. Put them in, torque ALL the BH bolts to final torque, and re-measure. You may well find things have moved around. A large cast piece like this can move a lot.
 
it's possible, but highly unlikely.when it's on the dowel pins, there is no movement at all. We tried to see if we could take the slop out of the bolts, and force the BH down, and it didn't move at all.
 
I am not thinking movement up or down or left and right; I am thinking warpage that will occur in a casting like that when torqued down. A few thousandths movement at the mounting face in or out will move the retainer hole's position relative to the crank centerline around quite a bit. I've found .004"-.005" movement in cast iron blocks back in the BH mount area with as little as 25 ft lbs of torque on BH bolts. So such movement of a thin AL casting is quite possible.

It bears IMHO checking since things look to be so far out. If the bolts were ALL in, and ALL torqued when the last measurements were done, then that would take care of the concern.
 
nm9stheham said:
I am not thinking movement up or down or left and right; I am thinking warpage that will occur in a casting like that when torqued down. A few thousandths movement at the mounting face in or out will move the retainer hole's position relative to the crank centerline around quite a bit. I've found .004"-.005" movement in cast iron blocks back in the BH mount area with as little as 25 ft lbs of torque on BH bolts. So such movement of a thin AL casting is quite possible.

It bears IMHO checking since things look to be so far out. If the bolts were ALL in, and ALL torqued when the last measurements were done, then that would take care of the concern.
Click to expand...
I was wondering how long it was going to take you to find this thread. :thumbsup:
Well, thanks to RustyCowlls help I know that my last setup was at least within a few ticks of parallel readings. So, it wont hurt to do this again. I will try to find some time to do it and then post back here.
 
WSUTARD said:
I was wondering how long it was going to take you to find this thread. :thumbsup:
Well, thanks to RustyCowlls help I know that my last setup was at least within a few ticks of parallel readings. So, it wont hurt to do this again. I will try to find some time to do it and then post back here.
Click to expand...
Sorry to be late to comment! Believe it or not, I have been following along and last night at about 4 AM in bed, my brain started whirling, and I started questioning a few things. Most had been addressed long ago (there may be one trig error but it does not effect that BIG vertical offset), but not this item. It may be nothing at all, so I'll apologize in advance if it wastes your time, but stuff DOES move around when bolts are torqued in place.
 
I didn't look closely enough.. you DEFINATELY have to have all the bolts in and torqued to spec before you dial the bell. All cast items can move. I dealt with a welded bell that was really bad until all the bolts were in... Then it only required a small adjustment. Thanks nm9s.
 
nm9stheham said:
Sorry to be late to comment! Believe it or not, I have been following along and last night at about 4 AM in bed, my brain started whirling, and I started questioning a few things. Most had been addressed long ago (there may be one trig error but it does not effect that BIG vertical offset), but not this item. It may be nothing at all, so I'll apologize in advance if it wastes your time, but stuff DOES move around when bolts are torqued in place.
Click to expand...
moper said:
I didn't look closely enough.. you DEFINATELY have to have all the bolts in and torqued to spec before you dial the bell. All cast items can move. I dealt with a welded bell that was really bad until all the bolts were in... Then it only required a small adjustment. Thanks nm9s.
Click to expand...
OK, I am happy now! I torqued up all the bolts. Even found one I was missing that feeds in through the block side over by the oil filter.

I also found a better way to mount the indicator. Here are my readings:

12 = 0
3 = .017
6 = .042
9 = .030

Vertically: push down .021
Horizontally: push left .0065

So, if I place the .021 offsets in the 6:10 direction I should come within .005 spec.
IMG_1650.JPG
IMG_1651.JPG
 
Well, wudja lookit that..... LOL... Much Nicer. The comments of others that this BH was waaaay out triggered the "Why is that?" thought processes going.

BTW, the offsets interact due the measurement methodology; the 3 and 9 o'clock readings will get a lot smaller, and their difference may get smaller, if you just put the .021" offset dowels to move the BH straight down. A lot of the 3 and 9 o'clock non-zero offset is just due to the BH being upwards off-center. I'd probably move it vertically straight down first and then see how the horizontal offset ends up that way.
 
When you get your offset dowels, from the side that goes into the block, drill and tap the center of that dowel section all the way through to the other side for a 1/4-20 thread. That way, if you need to remove and turn the dowels, all you have to do is screw a 1/4-20 bolt into the dowel and push it out of the block.
 
IQ52 said:
When you get your offset dowels, from the side that goes into the block, drill and tap the center of that dowel section all the way through to the other side for a 1/4-20 thread. That way, if you need to remove and turn the dowels, all you have to do is screw a 1/4-20 bolt into the dowel and push it out of the block.
Click to expand...
Or, I can use these trick RobbMC pins that already have set screws in them!
image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg
 
yellow rose said:
IMHO, and I know it will be hated, but that bell housing is JUNK. I have never seen one that far out. I've never even had a Lakewood that far out. I'd bet I have indicated somewhere around a hundred bells and never seen one that bad.

I'd find another one and see if the issue is the bell or the block.
Click to expand...

I've measured a LOT of them and I've never had one out enough I had to worry about. I think either he's measuring wrong, or he has the worst out of spec bellhousing ever.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I've measured a LOT of them and I've never had one out enough I had to worry about. I think either he's measuring wrong, or he has the worst out of spec bellhousing ever.
Click to expand...
Had this been at the beginning of the thread I would have agreed that I am doing it wrong. At this point, I should open up my own bell-housing alignment shop!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top