Best K-Frame for improved handling?

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ramcharger said:
Thank you autoxcuda!
This is great information for those who do not have the funds to purchase an AlterK. I also should have been more specific on what it was that I have so here's some more info:

'72 Duster that had a 318 from the factory so it has a v8 k frame. I will be using a 360 block too. I am also planning on using the tubular UCA and LCA from CAP automotive products: http://www.capautoproducts.com/Control_Arms.html A Wilwood disk brake conversion is also on the board.

Thanks again for your input.
Click to expand...

So, are you swapping a V10 into your 72 Duster or a 360?

The V10 swap is going to present some issues with the oil pan and exhaust at the very very least. Also I think it will be too long. I think the V10 conversions in E and B-bodies needed the Radiator mounted on the other side of the radiator support to gain room.

The alterkion might allow you to keep the stock oil pan and exhaust. That might be $2,000 in custom header and custom oil pan work.
 
autoxcuda said:
So, are you swapping a V10 into your 72 Duster or a 360?

The V10 swap is going to present some issues with the oil pan and exhaust at the very very least. Also I think it will be too long. I think the V10 conversions in E and B-bodies needed the Radiator mounted on the other side of the radiator support to gain room.

The alterkion might allow you to keep the stock oil pan and exhaust. That might be $2,000 in custom header and custom oil pan work.
Click to expand...
Nope, just a stroker 360.
 
Just got off the phone with Bill at RMS: no swaybar available for the Early-A kit. May be forced to buy the swaybar setup from Magnum Force and fabricate brackets to accommodate the AlterKtion setup. :wack:

Not happy..............
 
Decided to bite the bullet and order the AlterKtion kit.:supz:

When I placed my order with Bill yesterday, he informed me that he is developing a sway bar for the early A-body! :cheers:

Looking forward to taking my car apart again!!:tard:
 
Well I hope XV builds a kit. I am tired of being a second class citizen A-body
onwer. Challenger and Cuda E-bodys HA did you know the Dart had more wins in Trans-Am (three) than both the Callenger (zero) and the Cuda (one).
 
i personally do not like the Alterkation kit.. may be some durability issues there.

hey vkarapanos,
I spend my vacations in Ano Korikiana, Corfu (Kerkyra), Greece.. small world lol!
 
Burntorange70 said:
Well I hope XV builds a kit. I am tired of being a second class citizen A-body
onwer. Challenger and Cuda E-bodys HA did you know the Dart had more wins in Trans-Am (three) than both the Callenger (zero) and the Cuda (one).
Click to expand...

The Cuda win was an A-body Cuda also. I thought there was more 66 Cuda wins than one?
 
Alterkation, Hotrodusa, lets face it there both just based on a Mustang II front end with slight adjustments to fit the application. if I can buy one for $3000 or less I might just buy one. hot rod usa's just a few miles from me I might just have to go check it out.
Richard
 
GЯEENHOЯNET;258466 said:
i personally do not like the Alterkation kit.. may be some durability issues there.

hey vkarapanos,
I spend my vacations in Ano Korikiana, Corfu (Kerkyra), Greece.. small world lol!
Click to expand...

Yep small world indeed... did you see any Mopars in Corfu? LOL
 
EP87 said:
Alterkation, Hotrodusa, lets face it there both just based on a Mustang II front end with slight adjustments to fit the application. if I can buy one for $3000 or less I might just buy one. hot rod usa's just a few miles from me I might just have to go check it out.
Richard
Click to expand...

They use a Mustang II 'based' spindle. The geometry is totally unique.

The Mustang II spindle is front steer to move steering componets away from headers. Also there are tons readily availiable disk brake kits for that spindle and are less expensive than the low volume custom Mopar stuff. They sell Mustang II drop spindles in various drops. Nobody makes a Mopar drop spindle.

GЯEENHOЯNET said:
i personally do not like the Alterkation kit.. may be some durability issues there.
Click to expand...

I don't see how the Alterkation durability issues. Maybe I'm missing something. What do you consider the weak point?
 
autoxcuda said:
They use a Mustang II 'based' spindle. The geometry is totally unique.

The Mustang II spindle is front steer to move steering componets away from headers. Also there are tons readily availiable disk brake kits for that spindle and are less expensive than the low volume custom Mopar stuff. They sell Mustang II drop spindles in various drops. Nobody makes a Mopar drop spindle.

I don't see how the Alterkation durability issues. Maybe I'm missing something. What do you consider the weak point?
Click to expand...

I'm no suspension expert but as far as I can tell its pretty close to the geometry used for street rod kits just sized to fit the application.http://www.heidts.com/heisinfo.htm

Btw Fatman make's a drop spindle for a-bodies http://www.fatmanfab.com/ In fact one of the members has them installed on his car, though I'm not sure if he's had it on the road yet.http://www.70duster440.com/chassis.html

As far as Alterkation durability issues, I don't remember questioning that. as far as I know there a quality item. I just don't like the idea of spending $4000
plus when there might be a simular item avalable for $1000 less. Since hot rod usa is close to me I just might check it out.http://www.hotrodsusa.com/store/controlfreak_ifs.html
Richard
 
EP87 said:
I'm no suspension expert but as far as I can tell its pretty close to the geometry used for street rod kits just sized to fit the application.http://www.heidts.com/heisinfo.htm
Click to expand...

Heidt says they just copy the Mustang II design. Alterkation uses a tread width real close to stock. I don't think your car would blow up or self destruct using a Heidt unit though. I just think the Alterkation is designed specifically for mopars and to overcome some of their specific fitment issues.

Bill Reilly (Alterkation) started with a Mustang II spindle, the position of the four K-member bolts, no chassis cutting , and a clean sheet of paper. The geometry is different and design unique for Mopars. Moving a bolt hole 1" in certain places changes the geometry dramaticaly.

They do share the idea of upper and lower single piece A-arms with a spring in the middle. But so does a 70 Chevelle, 75 Buick LaSabre, 74 D-150 Dodge truck...

EP87 said:
Btw Fatman make's a drop spindle for a-bodies http://www.fatmanfab.com/ In fact one of the members has them installed on his car, though I'm not sure if he's had it on the road yet.http://www.70duster440.com/chassis.html
Click to expand...

Those are not real stout pieces. OK for a cruiser. They were developed for Street Rods that use the F-body fully contained K-members. They are F-body height too btw. I know someone that had some interference issues with his 11.75 disk brakes. Fatman customer tech support had no clue about them.

EP87 said:
As far as Alterkation durability issues, I don't remember questioning that. as far as I know there a quality item.
Click to expand...
My bad, fixed that.
 
Burntorange70 said:
Well I hope XV builds a kit. I am tired of being a second class citizen A-body
onwer. Challenger and Cuda E-bodys HA did you know the Dart had more wins in Trans-Am (three) than both the Callenger (zero) and the Cuda (one).
Click to expand...

Consider yourself lucky to be second class citizen. :toothy10: As an early A-body owner sometimes I feel more like an outdoor pet................:protest:

GreenHornet > What are your durability concerns? Wheel load stresses?
:drinkers:

And to repeat information stated earlier in this thread, XV (Control Freak) seems to be a tubular copy of the AlterKtion setup, other than perhaps the use of cast aluminum lowers for the E-body crowd. But since they don't make an early A flavor, they were never a consideration for me.
 
Silver Fish, awesome car. Read you build up and pics.

You interested in getting it out on the track with all the other Mopars at Spring Fling Speed Festival ?? We'd love to have you come and join in on the fun.

Bob Tarozzi the designer of the 70 Trans Am cars will be there. He's going to help tech cars. And answering questions.
 
autoxcuda: Thanks!

I have a tremendous amount of interest in spending some time on the track, unfortunately, timing for me is terrible for the Spring event. I already have two conflicting activities that weekend. I am however adding the October event to my calendar so I can plan for it in advance!

I am hopeful that I can get it up to Thunder Hill before Summer is over.

Cheers!
 
autoxcuda said:
Heidt says they just copy the Mustang II design. Alterkation uses a tread width real close to stock. I don't think your car would blow up or self destruct using a Heidt unit though. I just think the Alterkation is designed specifically for mopars and to overcome some of their specific fitment issues.

Bill Reilly (Alterkation) started with a Mustang II spindle, the position of the four K-member bolts, no chassis cutting , and a clean sheet of paper. The geometry is different and design unique for Mopars. Moving a bolt hole 1" in certain places changes the geometry dramaticaly.

They do share the idea of upper and lower single piece A-arms with a spring in the middle. But so does a 70 Chevelle, 75 Buick LaSabre, 74 D-150 Dodge truck...



Those are not real stout pieces. OK for a cruiser. They were developed for Street Rods that use the F-body fully contained K-members. They are F-body height too btw. I know someone that had some interference issues with his 11.75 disk brakes. Fatman customer tech support had no clue about them.

My bad, fixed that.
Click to expand...

No matter what the goal is still to position the control arms so the radius on
the spindle stays as flat as possible, provide proper caster for Ackerman,
and position the rack to avoid bump steer.
 
SilverFish said:
autoxcuda: Thanks!

I have a tremendous amount of interest in spending some time on the track, unfortunately, timing for me is terrible for the Spring event. I already have two conflicting activities that weekend. I am however adding the October event to my calendar so I can plan for it in advance!

I am hopeful that I can get it up to Thunder Hill before Summer is over.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Well it's on Thursday not the weekend.

David Frieburger (old Hot Rod Ed.) and the Car Junkie TV crew will be testing there 24hrs of LeMons 73 Plymouth Fury.
 
Thanks for dangling that carrot (I'm working towards my Master's at night, and Thursday night is the last class before finals) but I'll buck my usual trend and be a responsible adult. :snakeman:

In fact I timed my project purchases such that they wouldn't arrive and be laying on my garage floor tempting me before finals are over. Thanks for the invite, and take lots of pics! I am sure when I view the website after the event I will regret my decision to stay home.

Cheers!
 
SilverFish said:
And to repeat information stated earlier in this thread, XV (Control Freak) seems to be a tubular copy of the AlterKtion setup, other than perhaps the use of cast aluminum lowers for the E-body crowd. But since they don't make an early A flavor, they were never a consideration for me.
Click to expand...

XV and Control Freak are not the same thing (not even close). However, I agree with you that the Control Freak looks like a copy of the AlterK.
 
rokketride said:
XV and Control Freak are not the same thing (not even close). However, I agree with you that the Control Freak looks like a copy of the AlterK.
Click to expand...

i thought that the hotrod usa is the exact tubular version of the alterktion? i think the control freak one lets you still use torsion bars.
 
rokketride said:
XV and Control Freak are not the same thing (not even close). However, I agree with you that the Control Freak looks like a copy of the AlterK.
Click to expand...

Good point, the current XV Stage II system is an aluminum K-member, Corvette aluminum spindles and lower arms, so absolutely no kinship with the Control Freak setup. Though my feeble brain says that when XV first appeared with their first Challenger in the magazines a few years ago they mentioned Control Freak suspensions. Again, emphasis on feeble.............

:blackeye:
 
redfastback said:
i thought that the hotrod usa is the exact tubular version of the alterktion? i think the control freak one lets you still use torsion bars.
Click to expand...

I think the system you are thinking about is the CAP system (that uses torsion bars). I have not seen the hotrod usa system.
 
Hot Rod usa is the shop, their product line is called control freak. Someone posted a link on the previous page.
 
Got it. Link wasn't working for me when I was at work (when it was originally posted) though I should have realized the content by the text at the end of the link.
 
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