Best Reliability ?

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MagicMan

MagicMan

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Inexperienced newbie here looking for some advice from all you seasoned veterans. I recently acquired a 69 Dart with a 2bbl 318, it will be my daily driver and sole means of transportation. As of right now the old car runs like a top, when you can get it started that is ! It seems to flood itself out without even touching the gas. I have electronic ignition on the way so that should help some. My question is should I leave the 2bbl and rebuild it ($40)? Possibly replace it with a rebuilt unit ($125)? Or swap the manifold and put something like a 625 Street Demon on it which has electric choke and a fast idle circuit($500) ?
As I said, this will be my daily driver, so my priorities are 1) Reliability ! 2) Fuel Economy 3) Performance.
 
Go with electronic ignition, 4-bbl with electric choke (much more reliable), and consider dual exhaust like 2 1/4" pipes.

The accelerator pumps on the original 2 bbl carbs wear out too fast and can be problematic. Run 4 bbl with electric choke, hooked up to the input side of the ballast resistor. To find the input side, disconnect both wires to the ballast resistor and turn the ignition on. Hook a test light up to a ground, then poke the pointy side into each of the terminals that you took off of the ballast resistor. The one that lights up is the input side.

Dual exhaust will help with performance and economy. Take the car out on the highway and start at 55 mph and see how long it takes to accelerate to 80 or 90. Then get dual exhaust put on and try it again. You will see a big difference.
 
I can not comment on the new street demon but the size is right. In the past, I used a Carter/Fed-Mougal 625 AFB. Dead reliable.

After the cost of carb, tuning kit and gaskets, the intake is the next issue to contend with. On your engine, ethier a Edelbrock Perdormer or a Weiand Action Plus will work great. I echo the above for exhaust but suggest a MSD or equal for an ignition. You'll get better mileage and off the line pep. Been there done that. (This, what your considering to do.)

I had a '79 Magnum W/a 360, 2.76 gears and 235/60/15's. the engine was given the basic bolt on treatment. No headers, just a 2-1/4, H pipe connected exhaust pipes with twin cats (needed for the time) into Thrush turbo mufflers to the bumper.

The engine was upgraded to a (72?) OE trap door air cleaner, 625 AFB, OE '79 4bbl. intake, vacuum advance distributor and a orange box which gave way to the MSD. The reward was 20mpg's Hwy. at its best.

You'll have a nice increase in performance and mileage with this combo.
 
So how many miles are on this engine ?
Here's how it goes... The engine has wear patterns set to the back pressures created by the amount of air flowing both in and out. Changing the that volume and back pressures will change those wear patterns. A 4 brl, headers, etc.. also change the sound and performance experienced in the drivers seat. All too often the driver will stomp the fire out with the throttle petal.
If I was investing in a high mileage engine for dependability and longevity..
A timing set, a good 2 brl intake and carb, electronic ignition, and a charging system that will supply proper voltage to it ( all 73 or later OEM ).
So now you have completely different responses and there surely will be many more. Tough part is you have only the one engine for trials. Good luck with it.

p.s. I honestly don't recall if 69 came with a dual plane intake or not.
 
Thanks guys, I understand the air in, air out concept. Right now it has a new exhaust system the previous owner installed consisting of dual 2 or 2 1/4 pipes that y into a 2 1/2 inch dynomax muffler before the rear axle and then stays 2 1/2 single on out. I know its not optimal, but its new, and sounds really nice for a daily driver, deep, mellow, and perfect volume.
 
If he had a y brains, he did the large size pipe. That system is good to go. No worries there. That is the way it shod be for a single exhaust system on a mill like yours. Just go for the dual plane intake, carb and MSD (or equal) and tune that baby well. Your good to go.

Redfish, I have never heard of such a thing. You could sell bridges here in NY with a line like that.
 
If the car runs good after you get it started, look and see if the choke is operating.
With the car cold you should push the accelerator once to the floor, this will set the high-speed idle and close the choke.
There is a down-load on here for a factory service manual, use it for your initial settings.
 
sireland67 said:
If the car runs good after you get it started, look and see if the choke is operating.
With the car cold you should push the accelerator once to the floor, this will set the high-speed idle and close the choke.
There is a down-load on here for a factory service manual, use it for your initial settings.
Click to expand...

The choke is not operating, but you can't even think about touching the gas to set it or you will flood the engine.
 
Where are you located at?
Sounds like the float in the carb is set too high, but you would have stalling issues going around sharp turns.
 
Have not noticed any stalling issues on sharp turns, I may go ahead and try a rebuild versus throwing a lot of money in a 4 barrel setup for now. I am trying to keep a tight budget on this project and I am happy with the way it runs with the 2 barrel, I just need to get more reliable starting. I also found a place that sells electric choke conversions for the 2 barrel carb and may try one of those just because.
 
You'll want to pick up the thickest available carb spacer/base gasket too.
I think the CARQUEST guy found it listed for 75 model 318.
 
Solves fuel percolation in the carb bowl. Same reason the factory put it there.
You'll need to adjust the bends in the choke lift rod too. Like if a 1/8 inch base gasket comes out and a 1/2 inch base gasket goes in, the rod needs to be 3/8 inch taller.
 
Red is right on the thick gasket, they were pretty much stock in the 70's.
I am still thinking that if the car runs great down the road, there is not much wrong with the carb.
Hard starting cold is a choke issue or fuel shot.
You say it is flooding, but I think it is lean?
You said the choke does not work.
70's intakes clogged up with carbon, and the heads did too.
This may be why the choke is not working, the carbon would clog the intake and the heads not allowing heat transfer to the bi-metric strip on the choke rod.
This made the choke not "OPEN" when the motor was warmed up.
 
Gotcha on the rods and base gasket,makes sense, as I said, I'm going to go with an electric choke conversion to get away from the current system. The choke is not closing at all, its doing nothing, it stays open all the time. Everything is hooked up and you can move it by hand. I am certain it is flooding, you can smell the raw fuel and I have pulled a plug and its soaked. Fuel is fairly fresh, had a quarter tank in it and I stopped at the gas station and filled it up a week ago when I drove it home. I am not blaming all this on the carb, thats why I have an electronic ignition on the way. Just looking for options to make this 45 year old car as reliable as possible.
 
You are getting some suggestions from hard-core racers, and you are a newbie. If you change to a 4 bbl, you would need to install a 4 bbl manifold (~$150), which is a chore, plus different throttle and transmission linkages. Unless you care about screaming the engine at 4000+ rpm, the 2 bbl is fine. Chrysler sold most V-8's that way for a reason.

I agree that your problem is the choke, and that is a simple and inexpensive fix. I would get the parts from a much later car to get the better electronic setup. I pulled them off an 80's Diplomat type car w/ 318, which aren't hard to find at the junkyard and most used the same Carter BBD carburetor as yours (w/ more emissions stuff). You can find some of those parts new, but not everything, so JY is best. Buy a new "choke pull-off", which is the vacuum diaphragm at the top of the carb. Adjust everything per the manual. Basically, you want the choke to close fairly tightly when the engine is cold. That is important to get the initial fire. As soon as the engine fires, the choke pull-off should pop the choke open slightly (manual says measure w/ a drill bit) so it doesn't run rich, flood, and maybe foul the spark plugs with soot. Unless all that works right, you will always have cold-starting problems.

Down the road, install an O2 sensor in the exhaust, so you don't fly blind. I have bought new Holley or MSD lean-rich indicator kits for $25 on ebay ($170 list), and even a new kit for Onan generators for $5 that worked fine (but long time constant). Wideband O2 is even better, and is getting affordable. The Carter BBD is great because you can adjust the metering rods instead of having to install a different main bleed, but don't touch those until you have an O2 sensor or you might screw it all up. BTW, I bought a new BBD for $28 on ebay a few years ago for my 65, but you must spend a lot of time trolling to beat this CMB.
 
MagicMan said:
I drove a 68 Barracuda everyday with a 318, electric choke, and electronic ignition, and dual exhaust. When the choke was set up to a good 12 V source, all I did in the morning was pump the gas twice, crank her up and when I got full oil pressure, put it in drive and it drove away without stalling/hiccuping. Even in 0° Detroit weather.

Electric choke makes a big difference in reliability.
Click to expand...
 
BillGrissom said:
You are getting some suggestions from hard-core racers, and you are a newbie. If you change to a 4 bbl, you would need to install a 4 bbl manifold (~$150), which is a chore, plus different throttle and transmission linkages. Unless you care about screaming the engine at 4000+ rpm, the 2 bbl is fine. Chrysler sold most V-8's that way for a reason.

I agree that your problem is the choke, and that is a simple and inexpensive fix. I would get the parts from a much later car to get the better electronic setup. I pulled them off an 80's Diplomat type car w/ 318, which aren't hard to find at the junkyard and most used the same Carter BBD carburetor as yours (w/ more emissions stuff). You can find some of those parts new, but not everything, so JY is best. Buy a new "choke pull-off", which is the vacuum diaphragm at the top of the carb. Adjust everything per the manual. Basically, you want the choke to close fairly tightly when the engine is cold. That is important to get the initial fire. As soon as the engine fires, the choke pull-off should pop the choke open slightly (manual says measure w/ a drill bit) so it doesn't run rich, flood, and maybe foul the spark plugs with soot. Unless all that works right, you will always have cold-starting problems.

Down the road, install an O2 sensor in the exhaust, so you don't fly blind. I have bought new Holley or MSD lean-rich indicator kits for $25 on ebay ($170 list), and even a new kit for Onan generators for $5 that worked fine (but long time constant). Wideband O2 is even better, and is getting affordable. The Carter BBD is great because you can adjust the metering rods instead of having to install a different main bleed, but don't touch those until you have an O2 sensor or you might screw it all up. BTW, I bought a new BBD for $28 on ebay a few years ago for my 65, but you must spend a lot of time trolling to beat this CMB.
Click to expand...
Take this from a rookie who was once in your shoes. Listen to Bill. You'll be pretty happy. When my truck was completely stock and all was functioning fairly well, it was fun and would roast a tire off with the 2bbl carb and exhaust manifolds.
 
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