Best street susp setup?

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NWDave

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I have a lowly 1971 Valiant 318 V8 4 door, that I plan to do a resto mod on. The stock suspension is sagging badly, and it sits way to low for my liking. Whats a good set of rear springs, front torsion bars, and shocks for this beast, to both restore its ride height, and give it some firmer handling? It's not a racer, just a street cruiser.
 
People never believe me when I say this but....

Full and complete stock rebuild of the front suspension using quality parts.

Front sway if you don't have one (rear is optional)

.890 or .920 Torsion Bars.

Full and complete stock rebuild of the rear suspension using quality parts.
(XHD Springs or equivalent and replacement of all bushings)

Bilstein Shocks custom valved for the above set up.

Good performance tires on a light wheel up to 16" (I feel anything over 16" is a waste on an A-Body).

A proper, professional alignment.


Or you can spend an extra $1000-$2000 for something that will look cool but be little improvement over the above on a street car.
 
I would put atleast 1" torsion bars in. Call espo and order a set of xhd rear springs with stock, +1 or +2" height. Front and rear sway bars and a firm feel stage 3 power steering box. And just as important a good set of tires. I would go 17 or 18".

All that's assuming that the front end is in good shape. If not rebuild that with quality parts.
 
The OP just wants to "restore its ride height, and give it some firmer handling".

I don't want to get in a pissing match over wheel size but these are some things to think about...

The less side wall, the harsher the ride and you do start to reach a point on larger wheels (like when going to 20" or another crazy size) where the profile of the tire is so short that the contact patch shrinks and becomes very thin...

Another thing is wheel weight.... Many fall into the trap of buying by size, with no regard to wheel weight. Big, heavy wheels will make your car slower and corner worse.

Oddly enough... Factory options (like the Mustang wheels)are usually lighter than normal consumer after-market wheels.

So.... If you do go big just make sure you shop around (take a look at wheel weights) and make an informed decision.
 
I ordered 1 inch over XHD type springs from espo.com (AKA springs and things) and for T-bars, I would do 383 bars. Fore and aft sway bars as thick as they come better than ave. shocks and tires as wide as they can get. Rim size is your choice, but I went w/14 all around.
 
Thanks for all of the advice, I'm new to Mopars, and need all of the pointers I can get. Converting to front disc brakes, and the larger 5 on 4.5" BP wheels is in the plans, as the wheel selection is so much better. I'm split on just getting some nice Wheel Vintiques 15" chrome rally wheels, or stepping up to some 16 or 17" wheels, for the modern look.
 
Thanks for all of the advice, I'm new to Mopars, and need all of the pointers I can get. Converting to front disc brakes, and the larger 5 on 4.5" BP wheels is in the plans, as the wheel selection is so much better. I'm split on just getting some nice Wheel Vintiques 15" chrome rally wheels, or stepping up to some 16 or 17" wheels, for the modern look.

with disk brakes you may need to go to 16" or more depending on the set up.

my brothers car is more of a weekend cruiser and a front end rebuild kit with front and rear sway bars made a big difference! He needs disk brakes, his drums don't cut his driving style.
 
Yes, my right leg muscles are getting a workout driving with manual drum brakes!
 
with disk brakes you may need to go to 16" or more depending on the set up.

my brothers car is more of a weekend cruiser and a front end rebuild kit with front and rear sway bars made a big difference! He needs disk brakes, his drums don't cut his driving style.

You can use OE wheels with OE brake parts. Theres a bunch of stuff in the for sale section that is OE for easy trouble free upgrades. You can even use later B body parts.
 
The OP just wants to "restore its ride height, and give it some firmer handling".

I don't want to get in a pissing match over wheel size but these are some things to think about...

The less side wall, the harsher the ride and you do start to reach a point on larger wheels (like when going to 20" or another crazy size) where the profile of the tire is so short that the contact patch shrinks and becomes very thin...

Another thing is wheel weight.... Many fall into the trap of buying by size, with no regard to wheel weight. Big, heavy wheels will make your car slower and corner worse.

Oddly enough... Factory options (like the Mustang wheels)are usually lighter than normal consumer after-market wheels.

So.... If you do go big just make sure you shop around (take a look at wheel weights) and make an informed decision.



the ride will be fine with a 17 or 18" wheel. plus more choice of sizes help out too.

stock ride height can and will be achieved with 1" + torsion bars and the springs from espo can be ordered stock height, +1" height or +2" height. some don't like how the stock height looks to sag some. just throwing options out there for him.
 
I don't like the current look, with the rear sagging a bunch, and the front low as well, with smallish 195/70-14 tires. It sits level, until I throw my 2 teenage kids in the back, seat LOL!
 
Firm up Handling, eh? Not real precise. IMO it would be best to make subtle improvements to a factory setup before swinging at the fence.

Start with replacing the joints and bushings in the front end and new shocks. Recommend polygraphite bushings. Afterward add an alignment by a shop that knows its way around TB Mopars. (Quick test) If they don't know how to adjust the front ride height (or look at you funny when you ask), they don't know TB Mopars.

AutoXCuda & GMachineDart seem to have the most interest in this stuff. After looking at some of their older posts, I came up with this chart.


Alignment specifications:

Caster angle (degrees) -1/16 to + 15/16 desired +2

Camber angle L +1/8 to +7/8 desired +1/8
R -1/8 to +5/8 desired -1/8
Toe-In 3/32 to 9/32 desired +1/8


The range is what the factory specifies for a 75 V-8 Dart (which is essentially what is under the Demon. The desired would produce what I would call an aggressive street setup. I think AutoXcuda uses +4 deg of caster on one of his cars. I've found that too much caster with hard bushings makes the car "hunt" under heavy braking.

I would upgrade to BBP and disk brakes. It's a fairly easy swap and will allow a greater choice of wheels. I've seen a few A-bodies with 17" wheels that don't look cartoonish. I did the swap on the Demon and went with 235/60-15 on cop car wheels. The 73 is getting the swap and a set of 15" Magnum 500s. Tire size TBD.
 
I'm going to pretty much agree with what's been said so far. Replace all of your bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, etc. You can go either with rubber or polyurethane bushings, the polyurethane will firm things up and give a more precise feel, but they also tend to squeak. A lot. So you may want to stick with rubber if you're going to be driving it a ton.

I would go with 1" torsion bars, I think that on an A-body they should be about right as far as spring rates for compromising handling and comfort. Any bigger will likely be pretty stiff, especially if you go to shorter sidewalls with a set of 17" rims.

Front and rear sway bars. You may not need the rear depending on your spring choice though, if you go with SS springs they're rate is about 160 lbs, which is more than stiff enough without a sway bar. XHD's could still use a rear bar.

New rear springs. XHD's are decent enough, you can go EXPO if you want a custom arch.

New shocks. If you're building a serious corner carver or racer the Billstein's are awesome, but if you just want a street car that doesn't wallow all over the place a set of KYB gas adjusts will be fine.

If you do all that you'll be able to tell right away if your steering box is any good when you get back on the road, any slop or play left will be the steering box. Firm feel does awesome rebuilds.

The alignment specs above I don't agree with. Positive camber and modern tires are not a combination for good street manners. This is the set up I run on my Challenger...

-.7 degrees camber
+4 degrees caster
1/16" toe in

For a regular street car -.25 to -.5 degrees camber is fine, I had mine set more negative because I'm trying to set the car up as a serious corner carver, and I just like the way it handles with that amount of negative camber. I also have tubular a-arms with a bigger adjustment range, you may need an offset bushing kit to get those numbers. Anything more than -1 degree camber will wear out tires on the street, too much straight line driving. +4 degrees caster isn't necessary either, you may not be able to get that much even with an offset bushing kit. Its good for power steering, especially the mopar "no road feel at all" power steering. But that much can make the steering a little heavy if you've got manual steering.

For an example on negative camber, check out the tires on this 'cuda set up for Pikes Peak. Negative camber=better cornering. I would suspect that to be between -2 and -3 degrees.

2712329929_7ca2500a6d_o.jpg

Not my picture obviously, credit to Mike Rogers. I believe I got it off of Flikr.
 
with disk brakes you may need to go to 16" or more depending on the set up.

my brothers car is more of a weekend cruiser and a front end rebuild kit with front and rear sway bars made a big difference! He needs disk brakes, his drums don't cut his driving style.

Shouldn't need 16" with rotors less that 12" diameter and a stock type calipers. There may be some 15" aftermarket rims that won't work. Mostly old 15" aftermarket rims from the '60's.

Stock 10.75" disk can be run on 14" rims.

Stock type 11.75" disk can be run on 15" rims.
 
The OP just wants to "restore its ride height, and give it some firmer handling".

I don't want to get in a pissing match over wheel size but these are some things to think about...

The less side wall, the harsher the ride and you do start to reach a point on larger wheels (like when going to 20" or another crazy size) where the profile of the tire is so short that the contact patch shrinks and becomes very thin...

Another thing is wheel weight.... Many fall into the trap of buying by size, with no regard to wheel weight. Big, heavy wheels will make your car slower and corner worse.

Oddly enough... Factory options (like the Mustang wheels)are usually lighter than normal consumer after-market wheels.

So.... If you do go big just make sure you shop around (take a look at wheel weights) and make an informed decision.


Very good points. The lighest rim will be the smallest diameter rim that will fit over the calipers.

There are some issues though with getting performance Z rated tires in 15" size. Like you can't unless you buy some oddball stuff like Avon and I think Mickey Thompson make some. There are more expensive than the Z-rated 16" and 17" stuff.
 
A little note on the Bilsteins, I have them and have had them for almost a year now from RCD. They are in NO WAY custom valved for Mopars, so for those of you who are writing this stuff obviously don't have these parts. I am still trying to get a hold of my contact at RCD to get the valving changed, but to no avail so far...
 
A little note on the Bilsteins, I have them and have had them for almost a year now from RCD. They are in NO WAY custom valved for Mopars, so for those of you who are writing this stuff obviously don't have these parts. I am still trying to get a hold of my contact at RCD to get the valving changed, but to no avail so far...

Who's RCD?

For custom valving and all kinds of wacky trick shock stuff our raceteam goes to:

http://www.naake.com/

His stuff is on the money, we have our own shock dyno to monitor condition and check new stuff.

BTW I met Mike Musto (Mr Angry) tonight. Saw the Charger and the Daytona. Took 4x as many picture of the underneat of them than the tops of them. Trying to find them some track time at Willow Spring Raceway or Buttonwillow.
 
GLad you saw the cars. I have lots of hours in the both of them, but so do many others...

Race Car Dynamics is the supplier I used. They sold me direct which they normally don't do. I was supposed to be getting matched shocks for my t bars, but they aren't....

Do you have any connections?
 
GLad you saw the cars. I have lots of hours in the both of them, but so do many others...

Race Car Dynamics is the supplier I used. They sold me direct which they normally don't do. I was supposed to be getting matched shocks for my t bars, but they aren't....

Do you have any connections?

I forgot the guys name. Someone else on the team deals with that directly. They were very helpful. We were doing race stuff. I know sometimes these race oriented shops don't show a whole of interest and effort for street stuff. We haven't delt with them at that level, so I can't comment on that.

Tell the the #50 High Point Racing guys at Irwindale sent you.
 
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