Big Block into 1970 Swinger

-
marksmopars

marksmopars

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
352
Reaction score
27
Location
Minnesota
I am hoping some of you guys might be able to offer some guidance for me on a /6 to big block swap into a 1970 Swinger. I have a restoration project going with my 16 YO son, we pulled a 1970 dart Swinger out of the woods last year and have replaced the floor pans and are slowly working our way out from there. Lots of stuff left to do, but we are starting to think more on exactly what we want for a power train in this thing. Son wants a stick shift and since it was originally a 198 with 3 on the tree, it has the pedals installed. We have a 3 speed floor shift tranny, but haven't yet cut holes in the floor to accept this unit and I have some general questions I need to answer before we go too far. Being a cheap *** SOB, we are looking at using a 413 from a 65 chrysler 300 that I just happen to have sitting around. Now the car is /6 all the way and I expect the 7 1/4 and everything associated with it will need to go no matter what else we do. I have a 8 3/4 from the same Chrysler 300 with 4:10 gears which we think is our budget route to correct the rear end issues, just shorten and install. We expect to mount the springs inward from stock for the extra clearance in the wheel wells. I also have a 23 spline out of a 70 E body, but think that may be difficult to use in the A body. I also expect to have to install disc brakes up front to stop this baby. I also assume any horsepower will require sub-frame connections to keep it from becoming a pretzel.

Questions are as follows: 1) - Is it irrational to stick this 413 into this little car? 2) - Opinions on using the 3 speed transmission, good, bad ugly or indifferent? 3) - Do our thoughts regarding shortening the C body rear end to use in our A body make sense? Appears to be best cost approach at this point. 4) - Assuming the 413 is a viable idea, it has a stock cast intake, should I plan on replacing this and do you have recommendations for a replacement manifold/carb combo? 5) - Is there anything here which I should be aware of and haven't thought of that will bite me you know where later?

I have been I well treated by the members here and think I may save myself some headaches here by asking before dong, something on the order of measure twice, cut once if you know what I mean. Please if you have any thoughts, comments, suggestions or even derogatory remarks I have thick skin and would love to hear from you guys that have been there and done that. Thanks in advance for your support.
 
well for rearend at least my c body axles couldnt be shorted because there tappered i think is the word i want to use. But i did use the brakes center section and housing. I dont know anything about 413 but i have seen BB 3 speed cars on here. For the motor I would fig out if you can make the mounts or find someone that sells them I am pretty sure no one makes them :/
Another thing would be will manifolds fit or will some kinda header fit?
Other then that bigger radiator disk brakes sub frame connectors. valve covers depends on if you can have heat, mounts, exhaust(headers/manifolds), upgrade the manifold and get a 4 barrel carb of whatever your heart desires :p
 
unknownsnake said:
well for rearend at least my c body axles couldnt be shorted because there tappered i think is the word i want to use. But i did use the brakes center section and housing. I dont know anything about 413 but i have seen BB 3 speed cars on here. For the motor I would fig out if you can make the mounts or find someone that sells them I am pretty sure no one makes them :/
Another thing would be will manifolds fit or will some kinda header fit?
Other then that bigger radiator disk brakes sub frame connectors. valve covers depends on if you can have heat, mounts, exhaust(headers/manifolds), upgrade the manifold and get a 4 barrel carb of whatever your heart desires :p
Click to expand...

Good points, thanks. It is my understanding that the mounts are the same as a 383 and it is my expectation to go with headers.
 
Ditch the 3spd and use the 4, you will need a center sump oil pan and pickup. Do believe you will need to do some fab work for the clutch linkage unless you go with a hydraulic unit. In which case you will still have some fab work to do.
 
for the engine mounts and headers u can use the schumaker mounts and headers view them at engine-swaps.com u can also use the trans dapt mounts as well.same as the schumaker mounts.u can also the tti headers. view them at tti-exhausts.com
 
All the above is good advice. I had zero experience but hung out at BigBlockDart.com to figure out how to do the same thing (almost) you're doing. From that site I found FABO.

I have installed a 73 400 in a 72 Dart. I am currently using Schumacher mounts and 68 B body HP exhaust manifolds. I want to go to the Shumhacher headers when I can cough up the cash.

I am running a column shift 727 rather than a four speed and A-Body 8-3/4 which I got a killer deal on. (shortening B/C 8-3/4 seems to be the least expensive route most times). Cooling is via Summit aluminum radiator and a Mancini water pump housing. Avoid the 440Source housing if possible. I am using 440Source heads with no complaint however. I have tried to get as much weight off the nose with aluminum heads/manifold/ water pump housing etc. You're going to need larger diameter torsion bars too. I have power steering/power brakes. Power brake booster must be removed in order to pull drivers side valve cover. A Dakota starter works well on this swap (its just like a mini-starter in terms of size and works well). I've in-boarded the rear springs and mini-tubbed but that's not absolutely necessary. Good luck with your swap and keep posting on your progress!

Everything is a tight fit but its very doable.
 
the easiest way for mounting would be to follow Jim Lusk's infohttp://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/dck.shtml you can also see Jim on you-tube go through the entire process. Jim has obviously saved many people a lot of time and money, one smart guy!
 
i have built a few BB a-bodies as of now and plan to do more .....if your good at fabbing then making your own K-frame to accept the mounts of your choice is the way to go....schumachers are ok but they are a lazy design ....anyone can turn the rubber mount sideways .......if your going to use schumacher then i would reccomend the 73+ spool mount k-frame ......the spool mount is superior for a number of reasons....

you can :
A: cut and re-weld the perches on a spool mount to mimick the direct connection K-frame (i did this) and use factory C-body mounts

B: leave the spool mount K as -is and use the schumacher mounts for 73+ which are much much better then the biscuit type.

or on one of my builds i just completely built my own K-frame to accept BB truck mounts ....it came out pretty strong IMO.

73+ Ks are better too bcoz you can use the later style sway bars and enjoy all the factory improvements to the suspension compared to the earlier models.

i did a 383 on one build and i got B-body headers in there....with a 440 i am yet to get them in without extensive mods....for 440 i use B- body manifolds.......but a low -deck (361-400) you should be able to get headers in without cutting if thats what your after.

also if you running an auto ....this will be an easy build ....if your doing a 4 speed ...expect mega problems with the z-bar.......alll my cars are 4 speeds so i have gone as far as making my own z-bar ....which is a very time consuming project.


by the way a 413 is an excellent engine to use........stout engine .....if not you can always use the crank in a later 440 ....but i would use a 413 without any worries
 
I am looking for a bell housing for my dart, was /6 and looking at a 413manual transmission. Mostly always been a small block guy, any one with spare pieces or maybe just good advice as to what to look for or avoid? received some good tips so far, some work ahead but that is OK, I think I will need the bell housing so I can do some mock up. I would like advice, that is always cheap, some cheap parts would be OK as well, but I understand reality also.
 
marksmopars said:
I am looking for a bell housing for my dart, was /6 and looking at a 413manual transmission. Mostly always been a small block guy, any one with spare pieces or maybe just good advice as to what to look for or avoid? received some good tips so far, some work ahead but that is OK, I think I will need the bell housing so I can do some mock up. I would like advice, that is always cheap, some cheap parts would be OK as well, but I understand reality also.
Click to expand...


The 413 is a good choice but since it's a RB it is the highest when compared to a 383/400 and yes the Z bars an SOB. All things considered a stroked 400would be the direction I'll take next time. A friend took the time to build from scratch an hydraulic clutch but can't remember what he scrounged the master and slave cylinders off of. Shortening your existing 8 3/4 will be cheaper than trying to find/buy/and overhaul an existing A Body unit. Take a long look at aluminum rads and pick the best one you stick in with appropriate fans and shroud of course.

Almost forgot, Is that 340TA in your Avitars yours and if so what shape is she in.
 
I have a 74 Duster that has over 200 pass's down the drag strip using a 8 1/4 rear end.
Using one is another option for the build.

8 1/4 would be strong enough for your build.
For 3 years I've been waiting for it to fail to put a 8 3/4 in.
Runs 11.59 et
IMGP0363.jpg
 
demon seed said:
The 413 is a good choice but since it's a RB it is the highest when compared to a 383/400 and yes the Z bars an SOB. All things considered a stroked 400would be the direction I'll take next time. A friend took the time to build from scratch an hydraulic clutch but can't remember what he scrounged the master and slave cylinders off of. Shortening your existing 8 3/4 will be cheaper than trying to find/buy/and overhaul an existing A Body unit. Take a long look at aluminum rads and pick the best one you stick in with appropriate fans and shroud of course.

Almost forgot, Is that 340TA in your Avitars yours and if so what shape is she in.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. Yah the T/A is mine, picked it up in 1975 for $1,049.00, did not know what a T/A was at the time, just knew I wanted a 340 4-speed! It is in pretty decent shape, but I do drive it and have no appreciation for trailer queens. I last repainted it about ten years ago, refreshed the engine this past spring. It is a 340 six pack with T/A heads that are mildly ported, took the bumps out of the intake ports which is what they were designed to allow. Do not have a good T/A block as the original engine was gone when I purchased the car, looked for one for years but kinda gave up on that idea now.
 
it's gona be a great project for you and your son. you two will have a great time working together and having headaches together also. in the end you will be proud of the work and time you put in it. now when you're finish get AAA tow insurance because the 8 3/4" will eventually break behind the 4-speed at the worst time.
 
bOb shingler said:
it's gona be a great project for you and your son. you two will have a great time working together and having headaches together also. in the end you will be proud of the work and time you put in it. now when you're finish get AAA tow insurance because the 8 3/4" will eventually break behind the 4-speed at the worst time.
Click to expand...

What fun is owning them if you don't break them? I would say that if you haven't broken it then you simply haven't fully explored the potential. Also, have had the original 8 3/4 in my T/A and have broken transmissions (4 speeds), motor mounts and motors, but never broken the rear end so your comment surprises me a bit. My idea of a fun car is build it, drive it, break it and repeat:blob:

Thanks to all for the input, great group.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top