Blank canvas, steel sided 40x60 pole barn. Thoughts on insulating, electrical, heating???

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Johnny Mac

Johnny Mac

www.blueprintengines.com
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Hey all, long story short, I have been planning a 40x60x14 pole building for some time now.
My builder called me with a surprise opening, and its nearly done.

I am a busy guy, and haven't put much thought into "finishing" it with electrical, insulation, and heat.

Opinions on the following?
Insulation
Spray foam?
Roll bat?
Foam board?

Wall finish
Osb?
Obx?
Plywood ?
Rather not drywall

Electrical
External conduit if I do osb walls?

Heating
There is no gas here
Electrical 220 heaters?
Radiant floor heat? I hear recovery is poor and expensive to install...

Obviously not looking to break the bank...so spray in foam may be out...same with floor heating. Just looking to do this logically and not do things twice...or backwards.

Thanks for the opinions all.
20201230_153152.jpg
 
I'm finishing my 40x56 right now. Im drywalling, plywood is rediculous right now and I hate the way it looks. Drywall is cheap and doesn't echo. Check out inferred tube heaters quiet and very efficient. I went with bat r26 in a 2x6 wall. Spray foam is nice but I can buy alot of propane for the price difference. It's also a nightmare to rip that crap apart if you ever add on... Don't ask... Nice shop you have,..
 
Johnny Mac said:
Hey all, long story short, I have been planning a 40x60x14 pole building for some time now.
My builder called me with a surprise opening, and its nearly done.

I am a busy guy, and haven't put much thought into "finishing" it with electrical, insulation, and heat.

Opinions on the following?
Insulation
Spray foam?
Roll bat?
Foam board?

Wall finish
Osb?
Obx?
Plywood ?
Rather not drywall

Electrical
External conduit if I do osb walls?

Heating
There is no gas here
Electrical 220 heaters?
Radiant floor heat? I hear recovery is poor and expensive to install...

Obviously not looking to break the bank...so spray in foam may be out...same with floor heating. Just looking to do this logically and not do things twice...or backwards.

Thanks for the opinions all.
View attachment 1715660321
Click to expand...

Looks nice! Black canvas? Can you elaborate? Oh and from everything I've seen with friends shops around here and read on the net, plywood seems to be the best compromise 'tween price and durability.

Oh "BLANK" canvas. Nevermind. I'm stupid.
 
While is may be more up front. With the right spray foam you could heat the entire building with a candle (slight exaggeration).

You could use drywall if you put backer boards where you know you need support.

If it is humid in your area use moisture proof drywall, and paint with proper primer and paint.

Electrical. You could install conduit at floor level and at 8 feet up all around the walls. Put junction boxes every 4 feet or so. Use oversized conduit to allow for changes down the road.

Heating / cooling, put in whatever is the most efficient. Propane / electric etc.
 
There was a recent thread about insulating a steel building last week.
And another one about heating a garage.
Pretty good suggestions if you can search those threads.
 
Id blow in the attic and do bats in the walls. Sheetrock. Good old proven conventional construction.
 
I have a shop same size as yours w 12 ft ceiling. I put R19 batt fiberglass in walls and blown in fiberglass in ceiling to R30. I ran electric wires up above ceiling then down posts to outlets and thru ceiling for light outlets. I think that is so much neater than conduit. I did combo of osb on some walls and 3/8" beadboard on others for more finished look. In a garage drywall gets damaged too easy.
For heat I put in hot water floor heat in concrete with electric source heater/pump system. I love that floor heat. I divided the space into 20 x 60 main shop, 10 x 60 storage/office/tool room, and 10 x 60 unheated garage. I have been real happy with the shop.
20201120_143823.jpg
 
I agree with the radiant floor heat while you still have the chance. After the slab is poured with the heat pipes in it, you can heat it with a variety of choices, including 110/220 electric, propane, natural gas(if available), or even solar panels. The more you spend up front, the more inexpensive in the long run.
 
I had a 30x40x8 garage in Ohio that was fully finished with blow in insulation in the attic, bat in the walls and fully drywalled. I used a wood pellet stove, and one night when it was 10 below zero, out of curiosity I cranked up the stove, and had the thermometer well over 85 degrees within an hour.

l've also heated with anthracite coal, which is the most energy dense heating option available, followed by fuel oil, then I believe hardwood, and propane are very close.

When I lived in Ohio 2 friends had radiant floor heat, which is incredibly comfortable. Set frozen boots, dripping cars etc on the heated door and within 15 minutes dry and toasty warm, which is the same effect you will get with radiant tube heaters-all the objects in the shop will become warm and kind of........radiate heat.One of the shops used a wood fired outdoor boiler to heat the floor, and another one used natural gas. They both consumed a lot of fuel to heat the floor, but were extremely comfortable with the thermostat set in the mid 60's as for recovery, if you don't leave an overhead door open for long periods it would not be a problem.

If you are going to be in the shop everyday and don't mind a little labor, maybe consider a wood or anthracite stove would probably work well, and my anthracite stove would burn 20 hours on about 20lbs, and from what I've read a modern air tight wood stove will have about the same burn time.

A forced air fuel oil furnace is another cheap option. I was never a fan of propane. Too expensive.

If you are running a business out of it I would consider fuel oil forced air with a supplemental back up of wood, or anthracite.

Regardless of heat source, with 14' ceilings, I would insulate the **** out of it with blow in up top, and bat in the walls, along with insulated sectional overhead doors, NO roll doors!! Do your best to seal it all up, and eliminate drafts.

Spend money once up front on a good insulation strategy, and it will pay itself off in comfort and savings after that.

I don't miss those long cold dreary northeast Ohio winters, although they are good for drinking beer in the shop with buddies, and there's plenty of time to get projects done while there's salt on the road !
 
Go and spray foam it now. I have a 48x48 and dis the bat insulating and osb boards. Works ok but really wish I had it sprayed.
 
If you're thinking of using wood for a heating source, please check with your insurer. You'd be surprised how much higher your rates will be. Just saying, check all your options. I used R21 in the walls, and R34 in the ceiling in my 24X34. I can heat it with a small ceramic or kerosene heater for cheap all winter. If I could do it again, it would be some form of floor radiant heating. I'm pretty happy with what I have. Go for the best insulation you can afford. Paul.
 
Ditch pickle said:
I'm finishing my 40x56 right now. Im drywalling, plywood is rediculous right now and I hate the way it looks. Drywall is cheap and doesn't echo. Check out inferred tube heaters quiet and very efficient. I went with bat r26 in a 2x6 wall. Spray foam is nice but I can buy alot of propane for the price difference. It's also a nightmare to rip that crap apart if you ever add on... Don't ask... Nice shop you have,..
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Thank you, I assume you used a roll bat, then drywalled over? Is yours steel sided?
 
3406pk said:
I have a shop same size as yours w 12 ft ceiling. I put R19 batt fiberglass in walls and blown in fiberglass in ceiling to R30. I ran electric wires up above ceiling then down posts to outlets and thru ceiling for light outlets. I think that is so much neater than conduit. I did combo of osb on some walls and 3/8" beadboard on others for more finished look. In a garage drywall gets damaged too easy.
For heat I put in hot water floor heat in concrete with electric source heater/pump system. I love that floor heat. I divided the space into 20 x 60 main shop, 10 x 60 storage/office/tool room, and 10 x 60 unheated garage. I have been real happy with the shop.View attachment 1715660342
Click to expand...
If you don't mind me asking...how expensive was that floor heat. And did you install yourself? Any tips or links to what kind of unit or materials? Thank you!!
 
I know 2 friends who used the spray foam for insulation & it works VERY well. Not a cheap insulation, but worth the expense. It will pay for itself in no time. Also one heats his garage with a wood stove. Between the wood stove & the spray foam, it stays very comfy in there, & his pole barn is Huge! Long enough to park his Peterbilt with a sleeper, & a 48' trailer on one side with room to spare at front & back, plus the other side that you could probably fit 6 cars in. I think it's 60'w X 80' long. It's a big shop. He swears by the spray foam.
 
I envy you guys with the pole barns its a nice inexpensive way to get a closure up. Our subterranean termites would have a field day with one down here.
 
Hey John, noticed the sheet metal is not on it yet. I kick myself in the *** not putting translucent panes up just under the eves, you get a ton of light in the day that way.
 
Also paint the floor before you put anything in it or it will never get done.
 
halifaxhops said:
I kick myself in the *** not putting translucent panes up just under the eves, you get a ton of light in the day that way.
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Great point!! It's unbelievable how much light those translucent panes let in

Hey Halifax i got a sawzall im sure we can get those panes on your building!:lol:
 
How much you spend on insulation really dictates on the quality of time you would want to spend in your shop. So I pretty much insulated it as if it was a house I was going to live in, I spend almost every waking day in my shop. I also ran all of my electrical and air lines outside the wall, easy to wire and plumb and alterations can be made on the fly. As you can see in the photos I used Tyvek first to cut down on air travel between the corrugated metal panels and the horizontal supports. Rolled batten overlapped and stapled nice and tight, cover it with whatever looks nice to you. I went with tongue and groove with four foot metal panel for looks. For the ceiling metal furring strips, galvanized tin with blown in insulation. My shop is 40 x60 in a pole barn that was a 60 x 120, I use a house LP furnace and go through a tank a winter season which is about 550 a fill.

shed 007.jpg


IMG_4287[1].JPG
 
I'm helping a friend with his new building and he went with heat in the floor but he is using a waste oil furnace to heat the fluid that runs through the floor. So if you have clean waste oil or transmission fluid you can burn that and it works great. And can cut down on energy cost as well. We use a 25000 btu heater to heat my 7 bay shop and machine shop. We burn about 3000 gallons of waste oil a season. But the oil is free.
 
Johnny Mac said:
Hey all, long story short, I have been planning a 40x60x14 pole building for some time now.
My builder called me with a surprise opening, and its nearly done.

I am a busy guy, and haven't put much thought into "finishing" it with electrical, insulation, and heat.

Opinions on the following?
Insulation
Spray foam?
Roll bat? This in the walls, blown in the ceiling. Use a good vapor barrier on both.
Foam board?

Wall finish
Osb?
Obx?
Plywood ?
Rather not drywall
Metal liner panels on walls and roof.

Electrical
External conduit if I do osb walls? Go with conduit, much easier to make changes. When you get that lathe you always wanted it won't be a PITA to wire it.

Heating
There is no gas here
Electrical 220 heaters?
Radiant floor heat? I hear recovery is poor and expensive to install... I have propane fired hot water radiant heat. You will never, ever regret doing this. Just an example, middle of winter, -10 degrees, with forced air you open the big door, all the heat goes out the door. With floor radiant, once the door is closed, your back in business in minutes. It also seems warmer. I have my shop set at 45 degrees and it feels like 55 when you are working in it as the floor radiates heat upward heating objects and not the air. Just make sure you have enough insulation below the heating grid.

Obviously not looking to break the bank...so spray in foam may be out...same with floor heating. Just looking to do this logically and not do things twice...or backwards.

Thanks for the opinions all.
View attachment 1715660321
Click to expand...
 
If you don't mind messing with wood, that's honestly the best heat in my opinion. Saves some on the power bill too. But I get not wanting to start a fire everytime you go in or keeping wood nearby.
 
It's already too late. You should have sunk a pair of in floor heating coils in the thing.......liquid heating, a coil to use and a coil for spare, or use both and block off one if it ever failed
 
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