Broken down college kid

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DartThis74

DartThis74

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Hey all, I have a '74 Dart sport with a slant six and is my only means of transportation. I was driving to a friends house across town the other night and noticed my amp meter gauge was reading in the -40 side instead of directly at top center as usual. I also noticed the dash lights were much dimmer than originally. So coming up to a stop light my car stalled, I started it back up and stalled again. I got it started again luckily. On my way to my friends I turned a corner and the car died again, but before that the engine felt like it was misfiring when I would try to accelerate, it would stutter and kind of pause. I got my car started up once again and I parked it in my friends driveway finally. I go back out to it some time later to start it and it wouldn't start at all.

Long story short, I took the alternator off had it checked out, it failed the test at Advance Auto, as well as an alternator shop. I got a newer alternator to replace it, hooked it up and the engine still won't start... Could this be something else wrong such as a voltage regulator. One thing I forgot to do before I left after replacing the alternator was pushing the seat belt interlock button. Would that button need to be pushed to reset the mechanism? That keeps the car from starting correct? Thanks for any help
 
yes sorry I forgot to mention. The battery seems to had a lot of juice since all the lights work fine and the engine cranks over as if there has never been any issue before. It's just that it seems as no spark is getting to the engine. But also I did have jumper cables hooked up to my battery and tried that route as well and it still won't start.
 
as far as hooking the wires back up to the alternator. There is a ground wire i believe that uses a nut to fasten to it with some black plastic shroud around it. and then I have two connectors one is point directly up and one points toward the engine. One wire is blue and the other is green. How are these to be connected, I might have them backwards. I have the green wire on the terminal pointing straight up and the blue is on the terminal directed toward the engine.
 
The push on wires (the blue and the green) connecto to two matching push on connectors on the alternator. It does NOT matter which one is which. The black with the "shroud" hooks DIRECTLY to your battery

When you say it won't run, explain exactly?

It does / does not crank with the key in start?

It does crank, but the engine does not fire?

If it cranks, does it do so "briskly" or normally, or does it barely crank?

Battery could be down, or you could have other problems.

Does anything in the car work, like lights, accessories, heater blower, radio, etc?

You have a shop manual/ diagram? If not, you can download one at "My Mopar:"

(in two parts)

These diagrams do NOT show the seatbelt interlock system, if used. I'd advise disabling it, not needed. On the relay, there should be two "yellowish" wires. Pull those out and hook 'em together.

(This thread here:)

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=14304&highlight=interlock

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1974/74DartA.jpg

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1974/74DartB.jpg
 
the car cranks over like normal just without any notion of trying to start. All lights work etc... I did forget to push the interlock button do you think that could be an issue as to why it won't start. It would need to be reset correct ?
 
It won't crank if the interlock isn't working.

You need to get yourself a test lamp and multimeter.

Have you checked for spark, that is, remove the coil wire, hold it close to the block, and have someone twist the key?

You sure it's getting fuel? Should be able to remove the air filter, look down the carb throat, and with the choke open, work the throttle a couple of times. You should see a "shot" of fuel when you work the throttle.
 
I will have to try the coil wire. it is getting fuel. I can see gas squirting into the carb when I hit the throttle lever. Could it be a fuse, might of blown after the alternator went out? I noticed one was kind of discolored when I looked at it, but it didn't appear to be blown though.
 
No fusees feeding the ignition system, except for the main "fusable link" out by the main feed into the bulkhead connector. If that is blown, the car will be completely dead, no lights, no crank, no nothing.
 
thanks for your help by the way. The ballist resistor shouldn't be bad as far as I know. I have an extra one in the car and it still does the same thing with it.
 
just a quick question. You mean to pull the primary coil wire off of the distributor cap and hold it near the block ?
 
Pull the secondary wire, the one that looks like a plug wire that goes to the center of the dist. cap. Pull it out of the CAP, not the coil. Hold it 3/8-1/2" away from the block and have someone crank it. You should get a nice fat spark.
 
So I attempted the coil check. there was no spark between the wire and the block. I got a new coil and voltage regulator. installed both and still nothing...
 
Don't start throwing parts at it, although a coil is not a bad thing to have for a spare.

Do you have a voltmeter/ test lamp?
 
that is what I will need to be checking on next i suppose. I have not other idea what could be going on. If it's not sparking from the coil then that eliminates everything from the coil to the plugs, so anything before the coil should be looked at.
 
67Dart273 said:
Do you have a voltmeter/ test lamp?
Click to expand...

As Aaron said earlier, thanks for attempting to help him. Looks like Dad (me) is going to be making a trip south tomorrow. Aaron is only an hour and a half from home, but when you are dealing with car trouble, it might as well be a day and a half.

He's getting it towed back to his apartment today, and I'll take all the tools I think we might need - including a test light and multi-meter. I could hear over the phone while he was trying to start the Dart that it has good, solid cranking power - it's just not firing. The thing he glossed over in his narrative is that it was running - idling just fine - when he killed it that last time in the driveway.

Am I correct in stating that the alternator is not directly involved in the starting system? If it could start, it would be able to do it with a bad alternator, as long as the battery is stout enough. Although the alternator tested "bad" and is now replaced, it appears that it was only one piece of the overall puzzle.

With the coil not producing a spark (even a new one), where do we go from here? Until I can get down there tomorrow with the test tools, I instructed Aaron to start tracing wires back from the coil to look for broken, melted, frayed, corroded, or other obviously bad conditions. What is it we should be checking for with the test light or multi-meter? Also, since he tried throwing a new voltage regulator into the mix with no success, is that a clue as to the likely remaining suspects?

I do have a brand new ECU from Aaron's Duster project car that I will take with me. It is one of the orange ones we got for his 360 V8, but the one in his slant six Dart is a black one. Is there any problem with swapping them out, if it comes down to it?

One last thought... and I don't know how reasonable it is, but could it be something as simple as the coil wire breaking down between the coil and the distributor cap?

Anyone else with some suggestions before I leave in the morning???

Thanks for any input,
Jerry
 
I'm not sure if a slant six works the same as my 360 but one thing to check is if you have power at the ballast resistor. I'm sure 67Dart273 will chime in here, his advice is always right on the money :)

You should have around 12 volt at the "run" side of the ballast resistor (usually where the blue wire is connected) with the ignition key in the "run" position (engine off). If you don't have any voltage on any of the ballast terminals your problem is most likely at the ignition switch or at the bulkhead connectors.

If you suspect a faulty ballast resistor, you can temporarily jump the 2 terminals, (hotwire them together) now it bypasses the resistor giving a constant 12 volts to the coil. If it starts and runs, replace the old ballast resistor with a new unit. The ballast resistor only protects the coil so don't worry about damaging anything by bypassing it for a few minutes. (unless you have a points distributor but even then it shouldn't be an issue to run it for a few minutes, please correct me if I'm wrong guys..)
 
67cuda360 said:
If you suspect a faulty ballast resistor, you can temporarily jump the 2 terminals, (hotwire them together) now it bypasses the resistor giving a constant 12 volts to the coil. If it starts and runs, replace the old ballast resistor with a new unit. The ballast resistor only protects the coil so don't worry about damaging anything by bypassing it for a few minutes. (unless you have a points distributor but even then it shouldn't be an issue to run it for a few minutes, please correct me if I'm wrong guys..)
Click to expand...
When you crank the engine it automatically bypasses the ballast resistor during "start" and the engine should fire but stop as soon as you let the key go back to "run" if the ballast is bad.
 
'74 Sport said:
Am I correct in stating that the alternator is not directly involved in the starting system?
Click to expand...

Correct. You should be able to start and run the the engine with NO alternator OR regulator even installed, other than running the water pump

'74 Sport said:
With the coil not producing a spark (even a new one), where do we go from here? ...... What is it we should be checking for with the test light or multi-meter?..
Click to expand...

Pull the distributor connetor off, and hook your multimeter to the two distributor leads on low AC volts. Crank the engine You should see about 1V AC being generated. If not, check the gap between the reluctor/ pickup with a brass feeler gauge, .008" If you have any chance of getting either a points or magnetic (electronic) distributor, take it along.

You might pick up a cap and rotor, they are cheap, good insurance

With the ignition switch in "run", engine off, measure the voltage at the ballast on the "key" (normally dark blue) side. Should be VERY close to battery, IE 12V. Measure the coil neg. This will vary, 4-6V and shows the coil is drawing current through the ignition box and that the ballast is "good."

Put your meter on the coil+ and crank the engine USING THE KEY. This voltage should be above 10.5V and should be no more than 1/2 volt below cranking battery voltage, IE minimum battery voltage WHEN CRANKING should be 10.5 or more

I believe you tried a coil? If the above checks out, try a box, make sure it's grounded.

Only caveat with boxes is some are "5 pin" newer are "4 pin." Newer "4 pin" boxes can use EITHER the newer 2 pin ballst, OR the older 4 pin ballast.

Older, "5 pin" ECU box MUST use a 4 pin ballast


'74 Sport said:
Also, since he tried throwing a new voltage regulator into the mix with no success, is that a clue as to the likely remaining suspects?Jerry
Click to expand...

No, car should start/ run with no alternator, no regulator


'74 Sport said:
I do have a brand new ECU from Aaron's Duster project car that I will take with me. ....any problem swapping them out,?Jerry
Click to expand...

Adressed above, make sure the ballast/ box is compatible. If the orange box had a 2 pin ballast, and this car is 4 pin, you are OK


'74 Sport said:
could it be something as simple as the coil wire breaking down between the coil and the distributor cap?Jerry
Click to expand...

YES and I should have addressed this. Pull the coil wire out of the coil, and use a clip lead grounded to a screwdriver/ probe, hold the device just at the opening of the distributor. You should get a REAL nice fat spark.
 
Thanks for the help everyone. My dad will be here pretty soon to help try and run these problems down with me, given that he has all of the supplies and tools needed to do the job and I don't haha.
 
UPDATE: so this is what we have found so far today. We started checking voltage at the ballast and every reading we got with the multimeter checked with specs as explained above. Since the ballast is good, we went to Neg coil terminal and it read around a little over 11 volts with key in RUN position. The Pos coil terminal read roughly 9.5 volts while cranking with the key.

Is this the problem because the coil is not putting out the 10.5 volts as suggested ? If so, what would be causing this because the coil is brand new when we tested. Would it help to try and jump the car off with jumper cables ? The battery is reading a little over 12 volts as is and is cranking the engine no problem, so is this necessary.
 
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