Build me a 800hp NA 512 b block using pump gas

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Fullbore71

Fullbore71

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Hey guys, well this has bees eating at me for some time so I have decided to ask for help. I am looking to build a 800hp NA 512 out of a stock 400 block. Ok, I know about the limitations of a stock block but lots of people are building up to 700-775 with a stock block with BCR aluminum mains and a girdle. My goal is 800hp and very low 9's if not 9 flat on pump gas. Like a drag week engine. It will see limited drag strip use once my goal is reached. Not something that will be raced every weekend.This is a personal thing for me. The car is set up for this as it has been built for SG - SS or anything in between. Back halfed, 16x33's, full cage etc.etc. This goal of mine has all been discussed with the chassis builder so the car is right and can handle the horsepower.
You guys have some really impressive engine builders here. MRL, AndyF, and IQ52 just to name a few. So I'm hoping for some input. I would like to stick with Edelbrock MW Victors or Indy heads is possible. Not really wanting to go Brodix but if need be ok. Please tell me your thought and how you would build one. I've seen so many threads I'm confused and have a headache. There is nothing at 800hp. with a b block that I have found. BTY I have read Andy's book. Thank you in advance.
 
I hope this isn't kicking a dead horse. Yes, I have also checked out post your nine second combinations but nothing specific there either.
 
hey i like your idea and have had the same idea, because its cool and i love pump gas motors, have a 600 hp small block one now and when money allows i am thinking of a similar build, i talked to mrl about it and the best i can remember it will work with max wedge porting but streetability isnt very good, he has some impressive stroked big blocks running big power in street cars , i would give him a call and he can point you in the right direction where you wont be disapointed and what he say the combo will do will be almost on the money , he knows his stuff, imm and andy f knows there stuff to just havent dealt with them as much, but they know hp to, :blob:good luck and keep us posted
 
Is E85 an option for you? That way you could bring the compression up, which can also allow you to run a more aggressive cam. An aftermarket block would be much better but you already know that. And B1 original heads would get you there easily.
 
moper said:
What does the car weigh?
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Unfortunately that's one thing I can't answer right now. The car weighed 3210 with the complete stock interior, stock front end, stock leaf spring rear, etc. That was just before going to the chassis shop and being back halfed and a roll cage, aluminum tin work, wilwoods front and rear, 1 Kirkey seat etc. etc. Still need to replace the front crossmember with a tubular one etc. etc. Still lightening the car as I go. Lots more to rip out and the fiberglass fenders and hood are at the body shop right now.
 
ProSport said:
Is E85 an option for you? That way you could bring the compression up, which can also allow you to run a more aggressive cam. An aftermarket block would be much better but you already know that. And B1 original heads would get you there easily.
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I wish. Three stations that were supposed to carry it don't. I'd rather run pump gas if possible but open to 50/50 mix race/pump. Not really a street car. Maybe once in a while for certain occasions.
 
Fullbore71 said:
Thank you sir, What would you personally run for heads? Would the Edelbrock MW Victor heads ported be good or would you recommend something else?
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My sentimental favorite is the Edelbrock Victor, BUT, I won't use them on my builds anymore unless the customer requires it, they just have too many problems and are too much trouble.

So that doesn't leave us with much. Therefor, simultaneously in order of cost and power potential, lowest to highest.....a really good set of Indy EZ, the ported Indy 440-1 or as mentioned earlier, the B-1 original.

The Indy EZ? Yes. A short while back we did a horsepower test on a 10.3:1 440 with EZ heads and an old Racer Brown roller from 1968. It made 658 HP.
 
IQ52 said:
My sentimental favorite is the Edelbrock Victor, BUT, I won't use them on my builds anymore unless the customer requires it, they just have too many problems and are too much trouble.

So that doesn't leave us with much. Therefor, simultaneously in order of cost and power potential, lowest to highest.....a really good set of Indy EZ, the ported Indy 440-1 or as mentioned earlier, the B-1 original.

The Indy EZ? Yes. A short while back we did a horsepower test on a 10.3:1 440 with EZ heads and an old Racer Brown roller from 1968. It made 658 HP.
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I had no idea the Edelbrock Victor heads had problems and are too much trouble. Now I know. Guess I had better start looking for a set of Indy 440-1 heads. I had heard (maybe hearsay) that some of Indy heads were poor quality and Indy themselves wouldn't warrantee them. That's why I shied away from them but then again that could be just BS from a disgruntled customer maybe. I read that if they come from a Indy dealer there's less hassle if there should be a problem. I don't know if any of that is true but if you are recommending them they must be fine. You are the professional at this. Definitely not me. I do very much appreciate your input on my project.
Thank you again
 
You have the answer...just read Andy F's book. Better use a girdle and steel billet or aluminum main caps. You would be stretching the stock block without those upgrades.
It's all cubic inches, good rods and pistons and rings, good oiling system, massive roller cam with good springs and retainers, the Best roller rockers, INDY high flowing ported heads, INDY Tall Single Plane Max Wedge, of course, Big dominator or maybe tunnel ram with a couple carbs, MSD 7 Ingnition box, 2 1/8 TTI headers...its all doable....just how much do you want to spend....You could just order the motor from INDY and install it...very simple..and that is what I would do...Its a no brainer if you have the cash and want to spend it on an 800HP motor...And I would also then go with a 4 bolt INDY Aluminum block so you dont have to worry about girdles, etc. Just looked at INDY site....605" Street Master Pump Gas (750HP) but add a 1150 Dominator and a couple of other things to get right at 800HP...that should be fast enuf for even your appetite (with PUMP GAS, low compression motor, not 14-1 etc) and it is $19,450 plus $2240 for the Max Aluminum 4 Bolt Main Block puts you at $21,690 Plus about $1000 for options to take it from 750HP to 800HP plus freight to your shop...there you have it for only about $23,000 and just bolt it into your car...but...better have a really great transmission and converter to hold all that plus a DANA 60 rear end with Moser or Strange Internal and Axles with Spool...plus a compelte 4 Link or Cal Track setup plus good slicks and a tranny brake, plus a great fuel pump and plumbing setup, etc ,etc,,,etc,etc...plus 8.50 certified cage, and all the NHRA required clothing, helmet, etc, etc, plus your NHRA membership and drivers license plus your enclosed trailer..cant let that sit outside..wow...my dream setup...
 
66 Pro-Street said:
You have the answer...just read Andy F's book. Better use a girdle and steel billet or aluminum main caps. You would be stretching the stock block without those upgrades.
It's all cubic inches, good rods and pistons and rings, good oiling system, massive roller cam with good springs and retainers, the Best roller rockers, INDY high flowing ported heads, INDY Tall Single Plane Max Wedge, of course, Big dominator or maybe tunnel ram with a couple carbs, MSD 7 Ingnition box, 2 1/8 TTI headers...its all doable....just how much do you want to spend....You could just order the motor from INDY and install it...very simple..and that is what I would do...Its a no brainer if you have the cash and want to spend it on an 800HP motor...And I would also then go with a 4 bolt INDY Aluminum block so you dont have to worry about girdles, etc. Just looked at INDY site....605" Street Master Pump Gas (750HP) but add a 1150 Dominator and a couple of other things to get right at 800HP...that should be fast enuf for even your appetite (with PUMP GAS, low compression motor, not 14-1 etc) and it is $19,450 plus $2240 for the Max Aluminum 4 Bolt Main Block puts you at $21,690 Plus about $1000 for options to take it from 750HP to 800HP plus freight to your shop...there you have it for only about $23,000 and just bolt it into your car...but...better have a really great transmission and converter to hold all that plus a DANA 60 rear end with Moser or Strange Internal and Axles with Spool...plus a compelte 4 Link or Cal Track setup plus good slicks and a tranny brake, plus a great fuel pump and plumbing setup, etc ,etc,,,etc,etc...plus 8.50 certified cage, and all the NHRA required clothing, helmet, etc, etc, plus your NHRA membership and drivers license plus your enclosed trailer..cant let that sit outside..wow...my dream setup...
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I would never spend a dime on a Indy crate motor. They make very good parts and castings but I would not trust them to build a motor. They can't even assemble a set of heads right. I got my Indy 572-13 heads from Modern Cylinder. I would highly recommend them.
 
66 Pro-Street said:
You have the answer...just read Andy F's book. Better use a girdle and steel billet or aluminum main caps. You would be stretching the stock block without those upgrades.
It's all cubic inches, good rods and pistons and rings, good oiling system, massive roller cam with good springs and retainers, the Best roller rockers, INDY high flowing ported heads, INDY Tall Single Plane Max Wedge, of course, Big dominator or maybe tunnel ram with a couple carbs, MSD 7 Ingnition box, 2 1/8 TTI headers...its all doable....just how much do you want to spend....You could just order the motor from INDY and install it...very simple..and that is what I would do...Its a no brainer if you have the cash and want to spend it on an 800HP motor...And I would also then go with a 4 bolt INDY Aluminum block so you dont have to worry about girdles, etc. Just looked at INDY site....605" Street Master Pump Gas (750HP) but add a 1150 Dominator and a couple of other things to get right at 800HP...that should be fast enuf for even your appetite (with PUMP GAS, low compression motor, not 14-1 etc) and it is $19,450 plus $2240 for the Max Aluminum 4 Bolt Main Block puts you at $21,690 Plus about $1000 for options to take it from 750HP to 800HP plus freight to your shop...there you have it for only about $23,000 and just bolt it into your car...but...better have a really great transmission and converter to hold all that plus a DANA 60 rear end with Moser or Strange Internal and Axles with Spool...plus a compelte 4 Link or Cal Track setup plus good slicks and a tranny brake, plus a great fuel pump and plumbing setup, etc ,etc,,,etc,etc...plus 8.50 certified cage, and all the NHRA required clothing, helmet, etc, etc, plus your NHRA membership and drivers license plus your enclosed trailer..cant let that sit outside..wow...my dream setup...
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Thanks for the advice 66 Pro-Street but I have built my own engines since 1974 and this one will be no different. The only difference is this is my first big block Mopar.Yes I have the BRC caps and girdle and a few other parts already gathered up so no worries there. I think the car is more than capable of holding the horsepower as it was purpose built for this. After certification in April I will be making licensing runs hopefully by end of May. If I were to buy a complete engine for that kind of money it would probably be something a little more powerful than 800hp.
 

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MidTexCuda said:
Boost and/or NOS would be SO much cheaper. May not hold together super long but would do the job and be a ton more streetable IMO
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Yes, a nice 200 shot would wake her up. It is a lot cheaper but I really didn't want to go that route again. It's always a possibility. I've got 4 blocks sitting waiting to be abused. LOL
 
a good naturallly aspirated motor :Dalso has a huge tendencey to piss a lot of chevy and ford guys off to which is priceless ha ha ha ha ha ha:D
 
Fullbore71 said:
Thanks for the advice 66 Pro-Street but I have built my own engines since 1974 and this one will be no different. The only difference is this is my first big block Mopar.Yes I have the BRC caps and girdle and a few other parts already gathered up so no worries there. I think the car is more than capable of holding the horsepower as it was purpose built for this. After certification in April I will be making licensing runs hopefully by end of May. If I were to buy a complete engine for that kind of money it would probably be something a little more powerful than 800hp.
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Solid paint scheme on your dart:D. Im running a set of procomp "pretend victors"....imo not worth it. Go B-1's from the get go.
 
572 B1 MC headed combo will make over 800HP on pump gas....it just takes $$$!
Merry Christmas!!
 
Hey guys, I am new on here but not new to this world. I own an engine shop in MD called Crutchybilt Performance. Just two of us, my partner John and I. I figured I would chime in here if I could. Depending on how deep in the 9's you want to go and what the car really weighs 750-800 should get you into the low 9's. We have one customer with a 3650lb Roadrunner, 499 with Eddy heads (lots of porting), pump gas, 727 3.90 gear on a 30X10.5 tire and its best has been 10.09 at 135 and change. What I wanted to say is there are many ways to get to the 9 second barrier. It is always easier to get the car as light as you can make it. But that combo I just talked about is a 9.50 player if it is under 3000lbs. I would suggest doing all the research you can do, ask all the questions you can and remember, you can have a million hp but if you cant use it efficiently then you will always go slow. I have seen 586 hp go 9.07 in a 2600lb car. But it is an extremely good chassis and is very well sorted out.

I came on to this site to cruise around for parts for my own race car that I am building and to help people in any way that I could. Be it building an engine or answering questions. I am by no means an expert, but this is all we do and we are pretty good at it. Lots of BBM's out there running to include some 7 second stuff all the way to the 12's.

Thank you

Don
 
B1 Originals, EFI w/crank trigger and meth/water injection and you may be able to get away with pump fuel. Unless you plan on doing a lot of driving, I wouldn't bother and just build something to use 110oct leaded or 100oct unleaded and not worry about marginal batches of gas at the pump.

I built my B-1 for E85 and I'm at 13.8:1 static compression. S/F....Ken M
 
IQ52 said:
Okay, here, E85.........It is however 440 based with Victor heads.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,81562.0.html
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Thank you again IQ52. Now...to sound really stupid here. The first article you sent showed a 451 with ported RPM heads (349@800) making 770hp on pump gas. You said the Victor heads were troublesome. Here's a thought that might seem stupid but I have to ask. I keep seeing you guys talking about the Trick Flow heads and how well they flow OOTB compared to RPM's. If they flow 332 @ 700 with out porting I'm thinking they should possibly be able to be ported enough to surpass the 349 flow it took to reach 770hp from your combination. Any thought on this?? E-85 around here is scarce. It would be easier to run to the track and just get race gas.
 
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