build strokers or buy them

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winstoninwisc

winstoninwisc

Taint easy livin free,season ticket ona 1wayride
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I been wanting my 360 strokedfor almost a year , been hit buy every thing lifecould put in my way sonow I am to the point do I just build a 360 .030 over
for the short block , build a stroker shortblock , or buy a stroker shortblock
im not going crazy just a 425 or 450 hp not a 10 k motor << cast crank is fine I have scat rods just need either hyprerutectic or some diamond forges aliuminum if the pins are in the same position // no drag strips here or would go way diff,
 
One way or another you're spending. So the $20M question is what can you spend?
 
I had my 360 stroked last summer at a local shop .030 over cast crank mild cam nothing too crazy,your build sounds similar to mine. Cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $3-$4K. I cant remember exactly, bought brand new Indy X heads and a carb for it as well so probably closer to the $4K amount. Runs great no complaints! If you already have a block to work with I say have it built by a reputable shop.
 
I'd love to see a breakdown of the individual costs a complete $3-$4k stroker build.
 
You can always buy a stroker kit or you can have them built the block with you picking out the parts you want in it.
 
If you already have good rods you really dont need a kit.

Get a crank and pistons, the crank is probably going to cost the same as if you were going to have the 360 crank machined to the same quality. Maybe cheaper. The pistons can be cheap or expensive. Personally I would go with Hypers on a cast crank and scat I beams.

Everything else is going to be the same costs either way. So really, if you think about it the stroker and the 360 rebuild is about the same costs. Pistons either way and the crank is roughly the same costs. The only money extra for the stroker build yourself over the kit is the costs of balancing.

As far as buying a complete short block over building yourself. I say buy the complete short block. You will at least have some form of a warranty, and the time will be reduced alot. No waiting on your block to be machined and your kit to come in, blah, blah, blah,.

Find a machine shop close to you so you can get pick the short block up instead of shipping. And you might be able to get the machine shop to knock off some money for the parts you have. Or, you can sell everything off on ebay or craigslist. You will probably get a little more for the second than the machine shop.
 
I would contact mike at MRL performance and see what he says.
Why not start by going to an expert?
And he is a supporter to this site as well.
 
Winston, been here,done that. Buy the Scat forged kit. The rods clear stock bores.
 
frosty_the_punk said:
I'd love to see a breakdown of the individual costs a complete $3-$4k stroker build.
Click to expand...


I`ll try and dig up my receipts. Maybe my math is off and it`s closer to $5k

I remember about a $1K for the rotating assembly,new heads around $1K-$1,200,machine work around a grand. Which leaves out prices for a flat tappet cam & lifters, head bolts, gaskets, carb, ect and anything else i`m forgetting! So cost was definatly north of the $4K range!

I already had the block, intake manifold, rocker arm assembly,valve covers, stuff like that so I never included those in the cost of my build.
 
I've built mine very similar to what you are talking about. But i started with nothing and had to buy every piece. I am closer to 6k invested.
 
Just to answer the title question only, in which I think this will cover it;

A lot depends on the target HP level. Your abilty which I'll assume you have. And the coin in the pocket. Moper has been around the block a few times on building engines.

My answer is build your own IF the power level is low and for a daily driver to a moderate street strip car. HP levels under 500HP can be done without anything a home mechanic can't handle. Nothing trick, moderate clearances, mild cam (style not important) basic hot rodding/engine revuilding 101 but with just more stroke.

Have it built if a nasty street strip contender or a more of a deadaceded racer is intended.
Something well into the 500+ HP range.
This would be an engine where things can get a little wacky with tight clearances, non stock replacement parts that require clearancing, odd parts redesigned for racing. Like crank bearings come to mind. Etc...

This is where a pro builder comes into the picture. At this level for many, it takes a lot of burdon off your plate and the engine gets done right. We have a few good fella builders here on the site that can build it for you if there is a issue or questionable or unknown quality buder by you, or if at all.

I do so think Mike Listen (MRL) is close to you. Very personable fella. MoPar man all day long.
 
The cheapest I've done is about $6500. That's with a customer's core, re-using rods and heads, and running a modest hydraulic with stamped arms. I think worrying about horsepower shouldn't be a concern if budget is the main restriction. Torque is where it's at and torque is easy to get with a 4" crank. The horsepower side needs more ariflow, more camshaft, more $$$.
A really basic budget build breakdown similar towhat I did is the customer's usable block: shortblock - $2500. Heads - $2000, misc needed $1000, valvetrain - $1000. Because it's my pricing and my build it's my rules - so I sonic test the block, won't use hyper pistons, always stud the mains, and always internal balance.
 
Moper,forged pistons,internal balance both outstanding choices. Hopefully someone learns something here....
 
My point was not to say "you have to...". But to explain the costs for me. I also pay a big premium for machine work - so I'm sure something can be done cheaper. Hell I could do cheaper if I cut things. I just don't believe in cutting. The "best" way to make it cheaper is to just build a very solid 360. No sonic testing, no main studs, hyper pistons, and you could externally balance if you felt the need. Coupled with savings from the parts purchases that would cut almost a grand off easilly with minor affects on performance.
 
moper said:
The cheapest I've done is about $6500. That's with a customer's core, re-using rods and heads, and running a modest hydraulic with stamped arms. I think worrying about horsepower shouldn't be a concern if budget is the main restriction. Torque is where it's at and torque is easy to get with a 4" crank. The horsepower side needs more ariflow, more camshaft, more $$$.
A really basic budget build breakdown similar towhat I did is the customer's usable block: shortblock - $2500. Heads - $2000, misc needed $1000, valvetrain - $1000. Because it's my pricing and my build it's my rules - so I sonic test the block, won't use hyper pistons, always stud the mains, and always internal balance.
Click to expand...

Wow you have $3k in the heads and valvetrain. How much HP we talkin and is this a race motor you are building?
Blueprint sells a $3.5k complete 408
Cast crank, hyper pistons? Sure!
But at the end of the day it is a "408".

If one were to spec out a 350hp, 400hp, 500hp and 620hp motor there would be huge jumps in price.

350hp is a $3500 blueprint engine (or any machine shop) with smogger heads.
620hp is closer to $10k with forged internals, rhs heads, custom cam and harland rockers.
Studdin mains is pretty much race stuff, right?
Not using hyperss adds $$$ to the customers build.
How much you charge in labor to balance the motor? I know mallory is a separate variable charge.

At the end of the day both are 408
 
Also, I'm coming from the daily driver perspective.
I have a stock rebuilt non balanced, basically a parts store ordered 360 that I want to go to 408 to use in my daily commute.
I drive my truck 70 highway miles per day (35 mile, 45mins each way) so all I'm looking for is a weebit more power to zip around the streets in.
My sisters 5.9 magnum durango has a 4.5k redline and I doubt I've been anywhere close to that in the many months I drove that truck.

I buy and build for my intended purposes.
I went to orvis to buy a fly rod and the guy shows me $2k setups.
I'm a beginner not trying to land a 80lbs tarpon.
My buddy pointed me to a kit at bass pro shops for $180

Building and buying boats I've had similar experiences. Its all about your individual program.
 
You get what you pay for Buddy , you want to daily drive a $3500 stroker go ahead , you will be building another next year , people are trying to tell you not to cheap out on the build with shyte parts and cheap work ,build it right the first time and pay once , we have a couple of very reputable builders around here who will build you a good motor for between 6k-7k thats what it costs for proper parts and labour the base price for my build was $6495 plus dyno break in and tuning , plus head porting , plus some extra bolt ons and i was just north of 8k for more power and torque than you want but this motor has been back and forth across Canada twice and is going again this summer at more than 10k miles round trip each time with no issues . Try that with a $3500 blueprint stoker that is going to show up untested ,untuned without proper break in .
 
Do it right, do it once. Having the block squared up, align honed with main studs, torque plate honing, removing casting flash... All things I'll always do. I just took apart a 440 that was a mess inside, and none of these things were done. I won't use hypereutectic pistons either. Spend money on good forged I or H beams, doesn't make sense for that to be the weak link between a nice set of forged pistons and a forged crank. Strict budget builds never seem to stay together long, especially if you're planning on beating the snot out of it ever. But, everybody does things different....Good luck to ya!
 
nitrojunkee said:
Do it right, do it once. Having the block squared up, align honed with main studs, torque plate honing, removing casting flash... All things I'll always do. I just took apart a 440 that was a mess inside, and none of these things were done. ....
Click to expand...

What kind of specific mess did you find caused by not squaring/true decking, not align honing with studs, and not torque plate honing?

What horsepower level was that 440?
 
Worked at a shop years ago that did "production" style rebuild. No deck squaring, no torque plates etc. Only head work was hot tank, bead blast, and a quick valve job. Usually ran well. Back then we would do a sbc for right around $900. CROWS racing head service would get around $1500 for a "stock" sbc. Bored/honed with plates, blueprinted, degreed cam, 3 angle valve job, minor port flaws cleaned up. Both engines idling side by side even an untrained ear could hear the difference. At times you do get what you pay for....
 
cannucky said:
You get what you pay for Buddy , you want to daily drive a $3500 stroker go ahead , you will be building another next year , people are trying to tell you not to cheap out on the build with shyte parts and cheap work ,build it right the first time and pay once , we have a couple of very reputable builders around here who will build you a good motor for between 6k-7k thats what it costs for proper parts and labour the base price for my build was $6495 plus dyno break in and tuning , plus head porting , plus some extra bolt ons and i was just north of 8k for more power and torque than you want but this motor has been back and forth across Canada twice and is going again this summer at more than 10k miles round trip each time with no issues . Try that with a $3500 blueprint stoker that is going to show up untested ,untuned without proper break in .
Click to expand...

At times we tend to think because we pay more for an item it is better than a cheaper one purely because of cost.
I work with bean counters that charge other companies for my services so Ive learned how they trim our fat but still charge for our fatty services.
When you list out items and services needed in a shortblock,
You see where charges are inflated or not.
Ever wonder why one shop charges $80 for an oil change and another wants $50?
Same car too.
I see MRL and moper builds engines here. Brian at IMM out in Cali as well as Shadydell. Shady lists some prices online. I'm sure these four shops will have different price points for the same engine.

Build it right, build it once is true, but I don't think we need to .000 deck a block or put girdles on a daily driver.

Why put $3k worth of heads on a cruiser that never sees the track? porting heads on a truck motor that wants grunt under 4k rpm?

mopars are cool but I think we are pricing ourselves out of fun at times.
 
cannucky said:
you get what you pay for buddy , you want to daily drive a $3500 stroker go ahead , you will be building another next year , people are trying to tell you not to cheap out on the build with shyte parts and cheap work ,build it right the first time and pay once , we have a couple of very reputable builders around here who will build you a good motor for between 6k-7k thats what it costs for proper parts and labour the base price for my build was $6495 plus dyno break in and tuning , plus head porting , plus some extra bolt ons and i was just north of 8k for more power and torque than you want but this motor has been back and forth across canada twice and is going again this summer at more than 10k miles round trip each time with no issues . Try that with a $3500 blueprint stoker that is going to show up untested ,untuned without proper break in .
Click to expand...
* indeed!
 
autoxcuda said:
What kind of specific mess did you find caused by not squaring/true decking, not align honing with studs, and not torque plate honing?

What horsepower level was that 440?
Click to expand...

It was an iron headed 440 that the previous owner had put a procharger on. He had the heads off of it 4 times according to him, and couldn't get it to run right. After it pushed a head gasket, I tore it down. The deck of the side that pushed was out by almost .030 and measured at factory height. The crank didn't spin very well either. After taking getting the bottom end apart I could tell it hadn't been align honed. Yet the guy paid to have the rotating assy internally balanced with an SFI damper. He even had the counterweights polished. None of it made sense to me. There is no way I'd put together any engine like that, especially one that was making 15lbs of boost. There were a ton of other issues like exhaust leaks, carb tuning, plug gap, timing....But he completely skimped on machine work imo.

But like I said, everyone has their own way of doing things, so whatever.
 
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