Camshaft And Valve Timing Event Articles

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12many said:
Or just start a “what cam” thread. Likely your best bet if all you want is to know, without learning!:rolleyes: Me? I want to learn....because.....I want to know about these things. mondello.com - Camshaft Theory
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That was interesting. Of note, Comp always talks about Rod ratio and how it affects cam timing and I'll say ignition timing.

There are some very big names out there who say it doesn't matter. It probably doesn't matter on a 287 inch Comp Eliminator engine with 18 degree (or better) heads or a Pro Stock deal but it matters for anything induction limited.
 
The Hughes cam mentioned in the article was ground by Bullet at that time. Hughes cams are now ground by Howards, a step back IMO.
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I don’t “know” one way or another...... but I was under the impression the older Hughes cams were done by Engle(and this appears to be common knowledge).
And they are now done by Howards(also seems that be common knowledge).

You’re saying there was some point in between Engle and Howard’s where the Hughes cams were from Bullet?

Looking at the Bullet master list, I don’t see anything that matches up with the specs in that article.
 
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PRH said:
I don’t “know” one way or another...... but I was under the impression the older Hughes cams were done by Engle(and this appears to be common knowledge).
And they are now done by Howards(also seems that be common knowledge).

You’re saying there was some point in between Engle and Howard’s where the Hughes cams were from Bullet?

Looking at the Bullet master list, I don’t see anything that matches up with the specs in that article.
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As best as I know.
Years ago I had them grind me a custom cam that I was told I'd be waiting on Bullet to grind. The lobes on the cam card match with lobes in the bullet .904 lobe master list.
From what I know Hughes has had Engle, Bullet, and Howards grind their cams.
The current STL solids are Howards, the HLT solids were Bullet, and the HEV solids were Engle.
Not stating this as 100% fact, its just what I understand to be the case.

Camshaft Profile Archives
 
That’s interesting.

I wonder what they used for lobes, since they don’t have anything that matches up on their .904 flat tappet solid master list.
The old UD are pretty close, but those lobes have duration @.050 numbers that are “odd” instead of “even”.
 
I'll call Bullet Monday or Tuesday and see if they can elaborate on this. Seems some HLT lobes match up and some don't. The lobe my old custom HLT4848AS looks like a
FC275/375 275 248 166 .3750 .009 CRS.
 
I would argue that the .3750 Bullet lobe doesn’t match up with the Hughes specs.
Bullet lists the lobes out 4 spaces.
The Hughes 248 lobe is listed as .560 lift......which would be a .3733 lobe..... not a .3750 lobe.

I’ll be curious to hear what they tell you when you call.
 
The hughes lobe is .563 lift. Here is a pic of a cam card for a Hughes HTL4852

dsc04782-jpg.jpg

Here is pic of my custom HTL4848
FRZUUyy.jpg
 
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No exact match for the 252 lobe on the Bullet site though.

Like I said...... I’m curious to hear what they tell you.
Like...... could they sell someone that same 264/268 cam that was used in the article?
And if so..... what are the actual lobes used?
 
To add to mystery when I talked to howards about the hughes grinds he said hughes sends them the masters and they just grind them, he made it clear they are not howards grinds but was nice enough to give me all the timing specs.
 
lead69 said:
To add to mystery when I talked to howards about the hughes grinds he said hughes sends them the masters and they just grind them, he made it clear they are not howards grinds but was nice enough to give me all the timing specs.
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From what I'm seeing the Howards lobes are used on Hughes cams, but they don't share the same duration splits or lobe separations in their respective shelf cams that use the same lobe profile. IE Hughes cams aren't reboxed Howards shelf cams.
 
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skrews said:
From what I'm seeing the Howards lobes are used on Hughes cams, but they don't share the same duration splits or lobe separations in their respective shelf cams that use the same lobe profile. IE Hughes cams aren't reboxed Howards shelf cams.
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According to howards they are not based on existing howards lobes and they grind them per hughes requested specs. He actually compared a couple similar lobes they have at multiple lift points and the hughes are a touch faster. So, did the handful of redesigned/fast rate of lift chrysler cams from howards come before or after they started grinding cams for hughes?, and who initially came up with the timing events for the hughes lobes? idk. Only thing he said for sure was the hughes cam profiles are specific to them and are not howards lobes.
 
Composite faced lifters? That's a new one for me. Far from being a guru or racer but it surprised me.
 
Hughes specs the camshafts they have ground. I have several solid cams that Engle produced for Hughes.
That was a number of years ago.
Howard has some nice lobes for Chrysler in their own right.
 
lead69 said:
According to howards they are not based on existing howards lobes and they grind them per hughes requested specs. He actually compared a couple similar lobes they have at multiple lift points and the hughes are a touch faster. So, did the handful of redesigned/fast rate of lift chrysler cams from howards come before or after they started grinding cams for hughes?, and who initially came up with the timing events for the hughes lobes? idk. Only thing he said for sure was the hughes cam profiles are specific to them and are not howards lobes.
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Not trying to say what you were told isn't true. Howards does use a Landis LT1VE CNC cam grinder which makes grinding unique lobe profiles much easier than grinding cams manually on a Berco with actual physical masters. But I find it highly unlikely given the evidence I'm looking at.

After studying the majority of the Hughes cams, I can find the corresponding lobe in the Howards FM .904 lobe list. It looks like Hughes just rounds the Howards lobe up to the next .001 of an inch from what I'm seeing. If Howards has a .5876 lift lobe Hughes calls it a .588. Again not saying what you were told isn't true, but if there is a legit difference it is virtually nothing.
 
skrews said:
Not trying to say what you were told isn't true. Howards does use a Landis LT1VE CNC cam grinder which makes grinding unique lobe profiles much easier than grinding cams manually on a Berco with actual physical masters. But I find it highly unlikely given the evidence I'm looking at.

After studying the majority of the Hughes cams, I can find the corresponding lobe in the Howards FM .904 lobe list. It looks like Hughes just rounds the Howards lobe up to the next .001 of an inch from what I'm seeing. If Howards has a .5876 lift lobe Hughes calls it a .588. Again not saying what you were told isn't true, but if there is a legit difference it is virtually nothing.
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I understand and I actually agree with you but I'm just repeating what was told to me by the tech at howards. I have looked at the master list a bunch of times and that's why I called them in the first place was to ask about those profiles vs hughes. It was funny because the tech seemed on the offensive at first like it may be a warranty and they wanted no part of it (I was calling about the specs for hughes grind I have and mentioned the core) and he mentioned that the cores are sent to them by hughes and are not the ones they use for their cams.
 
skrews said:
Not trying to say what you were told isn't true. Howards does use a Landis LT1VE CNC cam grinder which makes grinding unique lobe profiles much easier than grinding cams manually on a Berco with actual physical masters. But I find it highly unlikely given the evidence I'm looking at.

After studying the majority of the Hughes cams, I can find the corresponding lobe in the Howards FM .904 lobe list. It looks like Hughes just rounds the Howards lobe up to the next .001 of an inch from what I'm seeing. If Howards has a .5876 lift lobe Hughes calls it a .588. Again not saying what you were told isn't true, but if there is a legit difference it is virtually nothing.
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Btw did you ever notice that the howards master list has some Harold Brookshire cams?
 
Looking at the Howards master list, I can find the current Hughes cams lobes there...... so there is no mystery as to what those are.

Looking the the Hughes site, their
STL6468BS3-8 cam(.414/.421 lobe lift)...... then look at the Howard’s master list....... the lobes are right there.

The mystery for me is still....... what lobes and from what supplier were the previous generation of Hughes cams ground from?
Like the HTL6468AS.

The Howard’s lobes are 28* major intensity....... so they're pretty fast.
The Comp MM lobes are actually a touch quicker(26* MI).

My “opinion” on the stories from Howard’s with regards to the Hughes cams is....... it’s politics.
They don’t want to just come out and say they can grind you the exact same cam you can get from Hughes........as a courtesy to Hughes.
 
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PRH said:
My “opinion” on the stories from Howard’s with regards to the Hughes cams is....... it’s politics.
They don’t want to just come out and say they can grind you the exact same cam you can get from Hughes........as a courtesy to Hughes.
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My thoughts exactly.
 
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