Can small block oil pump be replaced without pulling the engine?

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MRGTX

MRGTX

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I have a Magnum-based stroker and I will be replacing the oil pump in the coming weeks. I have a engine hoist on hand and two engine swaps for this car under my belt but none since the 4spd conversion (not sure if this is better or worse)... but frankly, I'm just trying to figure out if I can do this with as little re-work as possible.

I assume that the motor will have to be unbolted from the mounts and lifted to clear the K member... Would this be enough clearance for the job? If so, can this be done without separating the motor from the trans?

Thanks for any tips.
 
Shouldn't be a problem to do while in the car. I did a new pump and rear main seal while on my back in my garage and i'm old......Of course it would be much easier out of the car.
 
Yes, you will have to remove the suspension centerlink, unbolt the mounts from the K member, most likely remove the distributor. This should allow enough room to remove the oil pan and change your oil pump. 65'
 
As Plymouth 65 says shouldn’t be a problem. Your biggest concern is getting the oil pan off. Removing the distributor or at least the cap and maybe rotor is good advise..
 
Did it in my dart with a stock pan and windage tray, 4 speed, and Doug's headers. It's a pain but it can be done.

Aftermarket pan my yield different results.
 
Depends quite a bit on your set up.

What year K frame? What oil pan? Headers? Stock bell housing or a Quiktime/Lakewood bell with a block saver?
 
If I had amy doubts about anything else in the engine needing attention, even just the timing chain or a core plug, I would just pull the engine if at all possible.
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MRGTX said:
I have a Magnum-based stroker and I will be replacing the oil pump in the coming weeks. I have a engine hoist on hand and two engine swaps for this car under my belt but none since the 4spd conversion (not sure if this is better or worse)... but frankly, I'm just trying to figure out if I can do this with as little re-work as possible.

I assume that the motor will have to be unbolted from the mounts and lifted to clear the K member... Would this be enough clearance for the job? If so, can this be done without separating the motor from the trans?

Thanks for any tips.
Click to expand...

I have done it before.
Lift the motor to give better access to front pan bolts and pull the center link.

When I did it the reason was to replace the rear main seal and all the lower bearings.
Takes time, but piece of cake.
 
The trick is turning the crank to get the counter-weights and rod throws to give max wiggle-room/clearance when removing/installing the pan.
Don't rtv the chit outta it, or it'll leak worse.
Contact cement (3M weatherstrip adhesive) to hold the side gaskets in place, and 4 pea-sized dabs of RightStuff prefered, but rtv has been known to work, only where the end and side gaskets meet.

Why are you replacing the pump ?
 
Make sure you hold it firmly in place while tightening the screws. Otherwise it will drop slightly and then crack when tightened. Won't see it but there will be no oil pressure.
 
Some responses in this thread seem like they are from dudes that never turned a wrench.
No, the engine does not have to come out. Those that suggest it are wrong.
If the car is a 73 Dart Sport as shown in writing at the bottom of the original post, that is one of the easiest cars to do this with the engine still in place.
What logic is there in draining and removing the radiator, ATF lines, headers or exhaust pipes, fan-alternator-power steering systems, radiator hoses, wiring, fuel lines and motor mounts, disconnecting the bell housing and torque converter bolts to get to an oil pan that is at the bottom of an engine?
The 73-76 A body has a center link that can be removed easily. From there, you drain the oil, remove the oil pan bolts and lower the pan out. Yeah, you might need to raise the engine a little to clear the oil pickup tube or crank counterweight but so what? Use an engine hoist with a chain across the two frontmost intake manifold bolts or a floor jack with a block of wood under the harmonic balancer. It is simply that easy.
Those that chime in with useless advice are not helping matters.
Inertia has it right, Dano does too.
Why would you remove the distributor??? There is plenty of room.
 
Kern Dog said:
Why would you remove the distributor??? There is plenty of room.
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maybe just the cap and rotor, if you have to lift the front of the motor high enough to get the pan out from the K member area it may just pivot enough to kiss the firewall/wiper motor area and crack the cap. Cheap insurance for two spring loaded screws. Imho
 
You can, sure. IMO though, and we all know what that's worth, it's much MUCH easier to get everything to seal going back together with the engine upside down on an engine stand. Laying on your back, upside down is just a pain trying to get the pan gasket and end seals all lined up and get them to defy gravity and stay put. But if that's how you roll, go for it. lol
 
RustyRatRod said:
You can, sure. IMO though, and we all know what that's worth, it's much MUCH easier to get everything to seal going back together with the engine upside down on an engine stand. Laying on your back, upside down is just a pain trying to get the pan gasket and end seals all lined up and get them to defy gravity and stay put. But if that's how you roll, go for it. lol
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hey now, i do some of my best work from my back-- and there's a long list of ladies that'll attest to that.
 
I loosen the dist cap and just tip it forward, then go tie a shop towel around the steering wheel to remind me to put it back on properly, before I try to fire it.
Some cars have interference, others not, I just automatically do it.
I also use a coupla bigger 1/2 drive sockets to space the motor mount biscuits up, you may need the 1 1/4 to turn the crank, but the counter weight holes work well with an extension stuck in, to rotate the crank.

Why are you replacing pump ?
 
Kern Dog said:
Some responses in this thread seem like they are from dudes that never turned a wrench.
No, the engine does not have to come out. Those that suggest it are wrong.
If the car is a 73 Dart Sport as shown in writing at the bottom of the original post, that is one of the easiest cars to do this with the engine still in place.
What logic is there in draining and removing the radiator, ATF lines, headers or exhaust pipes, fan-alternator-power steering systems, radiator hoses, wiring, fuel lines and motor mounts, disconnecting the bell housing and torque converter bolts to get to an oil pan that is at the bottom of an engine?
The 73-76 A body has a center link that can be removed easily. From there, you drain the oil, remove the oil pan bolts and lower the pan out. Yeah, you might need to raise the engine a little to clear the oil pickup tube or crank counterweight but so what? Use an engine hoist with a chain across the two frontmost intake manifold bolts or a floor jack with a block of wood under the harmonic balancer. It is simply that easy.
Those that chime in with useless advice are not helping matters.
Inertia has it right, Dano does too.
Why would you remove the distributor??? There is plenty of room.
Click to expand...

Maybe if everything is stock it’s easy, but it can get complicated fast with aftermarket parts.

There are aftermarket distributors and caps that are taller than the stock ones are, so yeah, popping the cap off the distributor before you tilt the engine a bit isn’t a bad plan. Maybe not necessary with stock stuff, but not everyone runs stock stuff.

I put the questions on my post because they absolutely can make a BIG difference. I can tell you that on my Duster, with a Milodon road race pan, QuickTime T56 bell housing, headers and a spool mount K it’s not “simply that easy”.

I dropped the oil pan and replaced the rear main seal and pan gasket on my car earlier this year. Dropping the steering center link and lifting the engine off its mounts were steps 1&2 of the several dozen steps that it took. I’m not sure it would have been easier to drop the whole engine and transmission out the bottom, but it wasn’t far off.

So yeah, if @MRGTX is running some aftermarket parts on that engine it might not be as easy as you think it is.
 
Well I DID just this on Vixen a few years ago before I swapped the 225 in. I resealed the pan, replaced the oil pump, rod and main bearings and put a new timing set in her original 170. I could have done it all in the car, but rather than roll around on the ground, I pulled the engine and transmission both. It took Kitty and I less than an hour with hand tools and I had the engine on the stand. With all the other work you have to do to do it in the car, you're going through the same amount of labor.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Well I DID just this on Vixen a few years ago before I swapped the 225 in. I resealed the pan, replaced the oil pump, rod and main bearings and put a new timing set in her original 170. I could have done it all in the car, but rather than roll around on the ground, I pulled the engine and transmission both. It took Kitty and I less than an hour with hand tools and I had the engine on the stand. With all the other work you have to do to do it in the car, you're going through the same amount of labor.
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I imagine that /6 vs V8 would also change that operation substantially. OP has a magnum V8.

My car’s a bit of a special deal, there’s no way the 340/T56 will come out the top with that road race pan. When I put the engine in from the top I couldn’t even have the flywheel attached because of the combination of that oil pan and spool mount K-frame, it has to go straight down with no angle at all. Only way the engine/transmission comes out together is out the bottom on my car.

So yeah, the difficulty level of pulling the engine or doing it from the bottom will depend a lot on what components and aftermarket parts are used.
 
72bluNblu said:
I imagine that /6 vs V8 would also change that operation substantially. OP has a magnum V8.

My car’s a bit of a special deal, there’s no way the 340/T56 will come out the top with that road race pan. When I put the engine in from the top I couldn’t even have the flywheel attached because of the combination of that oil pan and spool mount K-frame, it has to go straight down with no angle at all. Only way the engine/transmission comes out together is out the bottom on my car.

So yeah, the difficulty level of pulling the engine or doing it from the bottom will depend a lot on what components and aftermarket parts are used.
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Yeah, that's a bit of labor right there. On anything that will come out the top though, I would normally get the engine out.
 
Rusty may be right if you have an engine hoist and engine stand, the extra work may be worth it.
What I will remind you of, is when you roll that engine over, all sorts antifreeze you thought you drained gets all over the floor, - so do it outside, cuz antifreeze doesn't evaporate well, sqweegee/mopping may be nec., so you're not rolling around on a wet floor, been there. Don't let pets/animals ingest any antifreeze ! !
I live on a farm, so the poisoning of any living thing can end up as food for something else to eat, it cruelly blinds them first, so caution .
 
inertia said:
Rusty may be right if you have an engine hoist and engine stand, the extra work may be worth it.
What I will remind you of, is when you roll that engine over, all sorts antifreeze you thought you drained gets all over the floor, - so do it outside, cuz antifreeze doesn't evaporate well, sqweegee/mopping may be nec., so you're not rolling around on a wet floor, been there. Don't let pets/animals ingest any antifreeze ! !
I live on a farm, so the poisoning of any living thing can end up as food for something else to eat, it cruelly blinds them first, so caution .
Click to expand...
Ain't that the truth! I don't care how good you "thought" you drained it, you always lose some.
 
I've done it several times;
68 Barracuda, 360 4-spd on a 70 Duster K with biscuits. TTI Headers, Milodon Road race pan (with tray) with the side bump-outs, and steering from a 73 Dart.
On my back of a cement floor, or on a 4-post.
Either way, I thought it was pretty easy.
on this Barracuda, I think I did that at least three times maybe more.
Done it on other 67 to 75 A-bodies too, with SBMs, but with stock pans .

A tip for reinstalling is to put a couple of line-up bolts, one on each rail with the heads cut off and the shanks slotted for a screwdriver. Then it's just a slamdunk.
Don't forget to pull the dipstick out before you start, and Disconnect the Battery.......
 
AJ/FormS said:
I've done it several times;
68 Barracuda, 360 4-spd on a 70 Duster K with biscuits. TTI Headers, Milodon Road race pan (with tray) with the side bump-outs, and steering from a 73 Dart.
On my back of a cement floor, or on a 4-post.
Either way, I thought it was pretty easy.
on this Barracuda, I think I did that at least three times maybe more.
Done it on other 67 to 75 A-bodies too, with SBMs, but with stock pans .

A tip for reinstalling is to put a couple of line-up bolts, one on each rail with the heads cut off and the shanks slotted for a screwdriver. Then it's just a slamdunk.
Don't forget to pull the dipstick out before you start, and Disconnect the Battery.......
Click to expand...

Lol, well if you think it was easy you can do mine next time.

I had to drop the steering link, lift the engine 2” (max, T56 hits the tunnel), unbolt the headers from the flanges and the heads (left them hanging), pull the radiator hoses, slide the torsion bars back, unhook the steering coupler, separate the lower ball joints and drop the entire K frame down to get the Milodon road race pan out on mine. Car on jack stands, engine on the hoist and the K balancing on the floor jack. The spool mount K and the QuickTime T56 bell make it MUCH harder. And honestly, I think any SFI bell with a block saver plate would make it a lot more difficult, doesn’t have to be a T56 bell.

Possible? Sure, dropped the pan, replaced the gasket and rear main seal. Easy? Not a chance.

Like I said before, it’s completely dependent on what components you’re running. Stock stuff? Sure, easy. Aftermarket stuff? Depends on the combo.
 
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