Carb Blues, Gonna Let It Go

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Hedgetrimmer

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Well, after nearly 5 years of enjoying my '65 Valiant, I believe the relationship has come to an end. My carb went out on me last month (Holley). I subsequently put on a rebuilt Carter. I couldn't get it to idle and wondered if it was just a poor rebuild. I took it back to the store and exchanged it for another one. This one seemed to be fine. It worked for about a week until a few days ago when it went out on me and left me stranded. I got the car towed home and commenced to try yet another carb, this time another Holley. It wouldn't work either. My brother, who is a mechanic, took a look at it and said with rebuilt carbs, especially the way they are sometimes shipped and turned all around and dropped, etc., the floats can get messed up. He said a person has to sometimes go through 3 or 4 just to find one that works right.

Siggggghhhhhhh. I've been missing a lot of work from my part-time job because of this car and have just about run out of patience. The guy who towed it home owns a shop and has several newer cars he's willing to trade for the Valiant, such as a '96 Civic. Yeah, I know, a Civic and a Valiant are wolds apart. But I think I might have to take him up on the offer. I just don't have the car know-how to keep messing with this thing.

I realize I'm not posting a question to the forum. I simply needed to let off a little frustration.
 
why not keep the valiant and buy the civic? it's a no brainer that way you can take your time with the valiant and get great service from the honda while doing so. just my 2 cents worth.
 
I don't have the money and have been struggling financially all year. Hence, the part-time job. Now that I haven't been able to get there (my full-time job is working from home, thank God), I'm in an even deeper hole. But I appreciate the suggestion. Buying the Civic and working on the Valiant over time would be ideal, but my situation is far from ideal. I need a car today!
 
You know what I'm going to say before I even type it...don't do it! I would fix what I have before I would trade it for a honda. I put myself in your shoes and would really not want to get rid of the Valiant. I have for years got on the internet and find out as much as possible about things that make my car's motor run, drive, interior, exterior,etc. It sounds like you need to get a new carb altogether or find some info about tuning the rebuilt carb. New carbs need to be tuned to your motor like idle mixture. They are most of the time set up enough to get car running but needs to be fine tuned to the motor. It is the carb since it won't run like it used to. Just take sometime and read up on tuning carbs and go at it. Now you can later on by you something that will be more dependable to back and forth to work. I have a 67 Barracuda and I have a 03 Dodge Ram. Most of the time these old cars are going to have problems because they were built in 60s and 70s so it is like the saying goes "What is it this time?" I guess you understand what I'm talking about. The car I have is a hobby not my daily driver and we all need something that is dependable to get us there when we need it.
 
Why won't your brother the mechanic help you out? I mean after all to a Pro mechanic tuning a carb should take all of a half hour, it's not a race car.
 
My brother helps me out whenever I ask for help, but sometimes I just get tired of having to lean on him so much. After putting in 12 hours at the shop, the last thing he wants to do is come over and mess with my car. Sure, he does it, because that's what family does, but I can only ask him to do so much. He's taking me to work this afternoon and picking me up after midnight.

As far as my current problem, I feel like I can get it fixed if I can get a decent carburetor. I don't know. I thought about perhaps just putting it in the shop and have them mess with it, but I feel like, man, I just spent $130 for a rebuilt carb, it should at least run for a little while. I'm just so frustrated with the whole thing right about now.
 
You and you're brother should team up and get that car going. Take the carb back and get another one if you have too. Fine tune the carb, set the floats, idle mixture get your hands dirty! lol Don't get frustrated I bet you're over looking something simple. Are you sure that you are getting good fuel pressure to the carb? Another words are your sure it is just the carb? Clogged up fuel filter?
 
Man I wouldn't trade that valiant for no stinking RICER! I would bet you will be sorry you traded if you do.I would keep getting carbs until one worked! You will spend more on the honda than you will on the valiant to keep it going!
 
No, it's not the filter. I just put a new one in, one of those transparent ones. I checked the pump. Fuel flow is good. When I turn the car over, it tries to catch but just sputters and then dies. Maybe I'll go out and mess with it a little more when I take my next break (working now as we speak). And you're right about it probably being something simple. Last week I had an electrical problem, and Ramcharger was able to diagnose the problem as a bad battery ground.
 
Listen to Mullinex95, and check fuel filter and fuel pump and be sure they're good to go, then set up carb. Make sure ignition is in good order and fuel is good. Then if carb won't idle and work properly exchange it. As stated above this all can be done in about an hour and now would be a good time to ask your brother for a hand. Buy some beer and get it done.
If you think that getting this Valiant running right is a problem, wait until you have a problem with a mid-ninties Civic and see what it costs you. Why do you think the tow driver is so willing to trade? Just my opinion, Mike
 
Hedgetrimmer said:
Well, after nearly 5 years of enjoying my '65 Valiant, I believe the relationship has come to an end. My carb went out on me last month (Holley). I subsequently put on a rebuilt Carter. I couldn't get it to idle and wondered if it was just a poor rebuild. I took it back to the store and exchanged it for another one. This one seemed to be fine. It worked for about a week until a few days ago when it went out on me and left me stranded. I got the car towed home and commenced to try yet another carb, this time another Holley. It wouldn't work either. My brother, who is a mechanic, took a look at it and said with rebuilt carbs, especially the way they are sometimes shipped and turned all around and dropped, etc., the floats can get messed up. He said a person has to sometimes go through 3 or 4 just to find one that works right.

Siggggghhhhhhh. I've been missing a lot of work from my part-time job because of this car and have just about run out of patience. The guy who towed it home owns a shop and has several newer cars he's willing to trade for the Valiant, such as a '96 Civic. Yeah, I know, a Civic and a Valiant are wolds apart. But I think I might have to take him up on the offer. I just don't have the car know-how to keep messing with this thing.

I realize I'm not posting a question to the forum. I simply needed to let off a little frustration.
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Please don't do it! I did the same exact thing with my 1970 Z28 Camaro once, I have regretted it ever since. It turned out to be a hole in the fuel line.

Buy a rebuild kit for the carb, you will know its done right. Or if possible, get a refund, and buy an edelbrock 1406 carb, it will run right out of the box, and its brand new. The edelbrocks even come with a manual for DIY step-by-step tuning guide. If you decide to keeps the stock carb, adjust the floats your self. If you PM me, I can email you a copy of an article on how to do it yourself. The rebuild kits cost about $25. Setting float levels is free, the Edelbrock 1406 costs about $228 from summit. The last 6 sold on ebay for about an average of $100 each.
 
Man, you guys should be politicians or lobbyists or something, 'cause y'all have essentially talked me into giving this car one more shot. Damn you, guys. Damn you! LOL
 
Hedgetrimmer said:
Man, you guys should be politicians or lobbyists or something, 'cause y'all have essentially talked me into giving this car one more shot. Damn you, guys. Damn you! LOL
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We're all behind you brother!
 
Thanks for all the support and feedback. The sun is shining bright outside, and it's beginning to warm up nicely. Life ain't so bad after all.
 
If I recall, you have a /6 in a car which sat for a while right? The carbs, both Carter BBS and Holley 1920 used on these engines are not exactly complex nor failure prone. They don't "just die" all of the sudden due to lack of things to go wrong (the original BBS on my 65 Dart is still working fine past 200K miles). And although parts-store rebuilds aren't 100% reliable, consider the statistical chance that your problem may not be the carb if more than 2 new carbs didn't fix it. Also a rebuild kit is about 25 bucks and you can easily do as good as the jobber shops which rebuild for the parts houses. Besides, unless you tear a gasket, you can pull the carb apart a couple times to clean before you need a kit.

Now, I've said it before and I'll say it again. 90% OF CARB PROBLEMS ARE IGNITION. You need 3 things to make an engine run; fuel, air and spark. To determine if the fuel system or ignition system is your problem, get a can of starting fluid. Open the throttle and give about a 3 second shot down the throat. Re-install the air cleaner assembly and start the car. If it starts your problem is fuel related, if not suspect spark.

For a quick carb diagnois look down the bore and see if the accelerator pump squirts when you open the throttle by hand. If not, it is probably a fuel pump not the carb. Take the line loose from the carb and crank the engine over. Fuel should squirt out pretty good on the 1st or 2nd revolution of the engine. If not, suspect the fuel pump. Don't trust clear fuel filters either. A bad PCV valve will cause all sorts of idle and starting problems.

Your 65 unless converted has points-type ignition. Worn/burnt points will cause exactly the symptom you describe. Remember, with points you NEVER want to leave the ignition switch in the on position without the engine running, or you will fry them quickly. Check your points gap (.020) and make sure the inside of your distributor cap is dry and clean. Also make sure all wiring is in good shape and securely fastned.

OK, to check for spark, you really need a helper. Pull a spark plug wire off the plug and stick a #2 Phillips screwdriver into the terminal. Place the screwdriver anw wire such that the blade of the screwdriver is about 1/16" off the valvecover but not touching metal anywhere. Crank the engine while looking for a spark. You should see a good healthy spark and hear a ticking sound as it sparks. If not, thats your problem. Bypass your balast resistor and try again, especially if it dies as soon as you release the key.

For a $100 trip to NAPA you can do a thorough tune-up on a slant which will have it purring. Plugs, points, condenser, cap, rotor, wires, PCV valve and filters. Cheaper than another "rebuilt" carb, and more likely to keep you rolling for quite a while. Also check all the simple stuff, vacuum/PCV hose hooked up? PCV valve stuck open? Choke hooked up?

Honda makes a good reliable car and all that, but reality check time here. If somebody offers to trade you a 10 year old Honda straight across for a 40 year old Plymouth be afraid, be very afraid. Ever price Honda parts, or nice late model Hondas? Besides depending, on mileage/abuse a 96 Civic is probably towards the end of it's service life. Unless you just got bit by the Solo II bug, think twice.

Here's my recommendation, fix the Valiant and run it for another year while you catch up on bills. Then if you are still attracted by the lure of fuel injection, air conditioning and 35 mpg, look at a NEW car (with a warranty). You will then still have the Valiant as a "pet" and something "practical" to get you around. Thats what I finally did a few years back. I love working on my cars (65 Dart, 71 Jeep J-4000, 73 Triumph TR6) but I hate having to work on them. Thats why the main family car is an 03 Jetta TDI wagon (and the TR6 is probably going to become a 04 Miata soon). No more all night wrenching sessions in the dead of winter so we can get to work in the morning.
 
Whew!!! We talked another one down. Good job MEN!!!!!
Let us know how it works out Hedgetrimmer. If ya get stuck just ask.
 
Thanks for detailed post, Chief. I'll have to let my brother read it and make sense of it, as I'm not all that savvy with cars. What little I do know, I only learned by having this car break down so much. LOL. You talk about a PCV valve perhaps being stuck open. I don't even know where to look for this part. When I bought my car 5 years ago, I was able to find an original Chrysler shop manual for my /6. It's a really thick, hefty book, costing about $60. The only problem is that the manual doesn't show where any parts are on the car. Sure, it's quite detailed in diagnostic procedures and taking things apart and replacing them, but there isn't one single picture that shows the exact location of any of the parts.
 
Your PCV or Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve is at the rear of the valve cover. There is a 3/8" rubber hose connecting this to the carb base. The valve mounts into a sheetmetal "hat" which slides onto the rear "stovepipe" on the valve cover. Try plugging the hose and starting the car. If it makes a substaantial difference, thats your ptoblem. A crudded up PCV valve may stick open causing a massive vacuum leak. Vacuum leaks and smooth running engines are mutually exclusive.

The factory service manual is an excelent source of information, but is written for a technician who has basic knowledge of automotive systems. The manual may show a picture of an individual component removed from the vehicle but not tell you where to look to find the part in the first place. Sometimes a little "Where's Waldo" is in order until you become more familiar with your vehicle. The good thing is a /6 A-body is an excelent car to hone your basic skills on. They are straightforward, have robust systems and basic service parts are relatively common and inespensive. Have fun and keep us posted.
 
Yeah, I sure will keep you guys posted. I'm off to sling some hash and brew now. Hopefully, I can get back on it tomorrow.
 
You know,while reading all the responses,I'm wondering if the problem is even associated with the carb. If it was running fine,then just died suddenly,could we be looking at a timing chain skipping a tooth or something? ....ballast resistor???...points not set???...vacuum leaks??? Sometimes, we're looking in all the wrong spots for the answers.

Hedge...you should post your location and maybe a list member in the area would volunteer to come over and give you a hand to get'er goin'!

Just my thoughts....
 
I had a girfriend with a Honda CRX and parts were expensive man! When her alternator went out I was floored when they told me that it would cost $400+ dollars from the dealer! Called the local NAPA and found another one for $325+. Luckily I used to drink at the bar with some guys who worked at the local auto electric rebuilders. $150 dollars for the alt to be rebuilt and $40 in drinks! Still the best deal I could get. This was back in '89. I can't imagine what they get for 'em now. :roll:

Your Valiant is a learning experience. Treat it as such and it won't seem such a burden. Those /6's will run forever it treated with just a little care and parts are way cheaper than for a modern FI car, domestic or imported.

C130 is right, sounds like an ignition problem. Check the condensor. These have a habit of shorting to ground. Is the distibutor hold down bolt loose? I've seen that before too.

Good luck! :headbang:
 
Also pull one of your plugs and see if it's got carbon build up. I had some carb problems recently and just running it for 20-30 minutes diagnosing the carb issue caused my plugs to carbon up and ran like crap till I pulled them and cleaned them up. Don't get rid of it, You will regret it later.
Cars are like men, they screw up every once in a while-you fix them-and then it's better than before. At least that's my wife says!!

Mine goes more along the lines of "if it's got tits or wheels.......it's gonna give you problems!!"

Good luck on your repair, stick with it and listen to all these guys, They sure have helped me out a bunch.
 
Dude, I cut my teeth on a 66' Valiant /6 at the age of 15. My dad made me do all the work on it and would only help me if I had a serious problem that I could not figure out by reading his car manuals. The best car ever to learn on. I still have the car today and never regreted keeping it. You will regret giving it away. We need all the Valiant owners we can get. They are the best Mopar bang for the buck these days. Many people on this board will agree, me included. Sounds like electrical/ignition to me. Those carbs are super simple. Follow the Chief :lurk:
 
Hey, guys. My brother and I were able to work on my car today. We put in a new battery, distributor cap, rotor button, ignition points, condensor and plugs. All that stuff was burned up to a crisp. The car now turns over very hard, tries to catch, but simply will not. I once again return to the carb as the culprit. Is there anything else I should check ignition wise before taking time to order another carb?

One more thing, I just went out and turned the car over a few times, noticing that there is thin black liquid just beneath the tailpipe. It appears to be a mixture of oil and water.
 
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