Carb or efi

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A/MP

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I am putting together an everyday street car, 360/727/3.23 gears, A/C. Is it worth spending 2K for an after market efi or can I get a 650 Holley to run with 10* ethanol/gas without much of a problem. Cold or hot start ups issues? Thanks
 
Boy, tough call. I started out (I'm 67) after decades of hiatus. I decided I should know how to deal with carbs. One flaw in this thinking is "alcoholized" fuel, which vapor locks and boils way way worse than "the old days" of "real gas."

I managed to improve mine, and it was a "build on the go" "as you go" etc etc, I had gone to a rear mount pump, vapor return system, and carb isolate, which helped

THEN I fell into an old Holley Pro-jection, cheap, and then immediately after, a Holley Commander 950 (TBI version, it can also handle multiport) and THEN after letting all this "get to me" (I ran both of them a short time, the Commander most of the summer)

I ended up !!!!!?????!!!!!! upgrading the Commander system computer with a Holley HP and harness.

I only got to run this one summer before painting the car. I would not go back for all the tea in China. By that I mean "back to a carb."

Money? up to you. You CAN do it a bit cheaper if you look around. 2K, tho, is not expensive, "what aftermarket" system are you considering?

My junk

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=209528
 
I put a 2001 5.9 Magnum with EFI in my '68 Barracuda convertible. I had a 727 hooked to an 8 3/4 rear end with 3.23's.

It cost me about $2000 to do the EFI with complete fuel system.
 
My home built 650 DP...cost $249...to acquire/build.....plus a $20 insulator gasket....

I live in Oregon..it gets down to -20....I have no choke....it gets up to 105 here in the summer....it doesnt boil over/spit up/puke/hiccup/ sputter/whistle/bog/stall/ or FAIL TO PERFORM.

I tune it with (1) screwdriver....

Holley DP gets my vote for cost vs. performance.
 
Like Prine says except my 750DP was free.
Oh and it doesnt get over 100*F here. My engine doesnt care how hot it gets.I put it into storage when the insurance runs out every Oct 10th.
Its only E10. Thats 10% alchohol. Thats 1/10. 1 gallon in 10. But yeah it doesnt stay fresh for very long. Up here Shell says it puts stabilizer in it, before it ever gets into the tank. Judging by how long it actually does stay fresh, I suspect its true. I just squirt a bit extra in if I intend to not drive the car for a week, and also at the end of the summer.Starts right up in spring, which can be 7 or 8 months later.
Its really hard to justify all that cash.I need it for normal wear items. Like tires, clutch discs,fluids,tires,brake shoes,tickets, dent repairs,oh, and tires.Heh-heh.
 
if your talking tbi my opinion is that its nicer then a carb but i have yet to see reports of performance increases, and thats almost the cost of a multi or sequential port injection set up. also with the tbi you dont get to have fun figuring out the crank and cam position sensor.
 
A/MP said:
I am putting together an everyday street car, 360/727/3.23 gears, A/C. Is it worth spending 2K for an after market efi or can I get a 650 Holley to run with 10* ethanol/gas without much of a problem. Cold or hot start ups issues? Thanks
Click to expand...

Its tough to beat the drive-ability of efi. I swapped over and I'll never go back to a carb.
 
I have to put my two cents into this thread I did try a TBI system it works great as long as you use your car as a everyday driver because, the way it was set up was the more you drive the more the computer learns your motor. The other thing you need to consider is unless you understand computer programing or how a fuel injection systems work than you are held hostage by the chip writer to get back to you with a new chip while getting the system dialed in. With TBI you lose all control on how your car runs unless you know how to program your system. If you are like most of us who drive your car only when the sun is out which usually means the car will sit for weeks at a time than when you go to start it up after that length of time it will fire instantly to 1600 rpm. With a carb you crank over your motor after sitting for a week or so it gives the oil pump time to get oil throughout the motor before it fires. What I'm getting at with FI it will fire instantly which it happened to me and your motor sounds like a sewing machine until the oil gets to where its supposed to be. I fought it for one whole summer and decided it was a total waist of money and, went back to the carb. Like I said this was just my opinion.
Pat Faley
 
Prine said:
Holley DP gets my vote for cost vs. performance.
Click to expand...


I did a FAST EFI 1.0 setup on an impala last year. Mild 454. Even after sending it to a rep shop and dyno tuning and everything, it isn't what you'd expect from EFI. I was disappointed. The guy who owns it revels at the way my chokeless HP carb starts and runs.

I would waste your money on a EFI setup unless you have a shop that can slap a guarantee you can live with on it.
 
fuzzman said:
unless you understand computer programing or how a fuel injection systems work than you are held hostage by the chip writer...........it will fire instantly to 1600 rpm. With a carb you crank over your motor after sitting for a week or so it gives the oil pump time to get oil throughout the motor before it fires. What I'm getting at with FI it will fire instantly which it happened to me and your motor sounds like a sewing machine until the oil gets to where its supposed to be. I fought it for one whole summer and decided it was a total waist of money and, went back to the carb. Like I said this was just my opinion.
Pat Faley
Click to expand...

None of this is necessarily true, not of either the Holley stuff nor Megasquirt. Yes, you will need to learn to do some changes to the map. This is not "computer programming." This is no different than getting on the internet or using email. It's a skill you can learn. You were not born with the knowledge to change carb jets, and you were also not born with the ability to run the Holley EFI or any other program. So far as high RPM startup, mine does not because it's not set up that way. And, there are ways around this. You can easily "rig" a "prime" button to crank the starter with no ignition or fuel and build pressure. Easy.

I do agree this is a choice and it may or may not be worthwhile.
 
I used the factory sensors and ECU on my EFI conversion, as it istarted out as 2001 5.9 Magnum pull- out. It is now a well-built 408" motor with cam and ported aluminum heads.

I did buy a Hotwire Auto hot rod harness and a hand held tuner to update my tunes. I had to hook up 4 wires from the harness to my car's wiring. It was plug and play. It makes the car a pleasure to drive, starts right up every time and the drivability, performance and gas mileage is amazing.

My other car has 3 carbs on it that are very well dialed in. There is still a stark contrast between the two cars from a drivability and start up standpoint.

The EFI car would be measurably less fun and unrefined of an experience if I had to run a carb on it. It is by far one of the best upgrades I've made to the car.
 
My '69 Dart has an engine setup a little more hopped up than what you are building. It had a 650 DP with no choke. No matter whether it's a cold morning or after driving it hard and it gets heat soaked it starts up easily every time. It ran great with the only minor issues being a flat spot mid way through the cruise circuit and it ran a little rich no matter what I did to it even after rebuilding it. But, I've had other similar builds in different cars that were a bit of a pain to drive. If you go with a carb-BUY A NEW ONE that isn't worn out or has been futzed with.

That being said, I pulled the Holley off the Dart and installed an Eddy EFI and the difference is pretty impressive. The car starts a little easier now and the throttle response is a lot crisper and smoother. It has that new car drive ability feel I was looking for. I can't say anything for mileage increase because I haven't had it on that long yet. I like the fact that it is self learning so you can set it and forget it. Or, you can tweak it to death if you are so inclined to do so.

So it comes down to $400 for a new carb or $2k for that little more extra refinement. What's it worth to you.?
 
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