Change timing to run 91 octane with 12:1?

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Rodzilla

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Good day,

I know I will lose abunch of power but could I take enough timing out to run 12.2:1 compression on 91octane with no detonation?
Currently for max power it's set at 34deg all in but I run 100LL AV gas or I mix 50/50 premium with race fuel.
Thanks.
 
Iron Heads ? Mine is 9 to 1 Iron and with a initial of 9* it still pings at wide open with a total of 32* on 91.Any less initial causes a off idle stumble (auto trans) that is annoying but livable. Just a thought.
 
Doubt it. If your looking to drive long distances and you cant carry extra fuel, try Race-gas.com.

I have 11.75:1 500ci. and drive it on the street only. My timing is backed off 4 degrees, carb rejetted on pri, smaller pri power valve, and I run power steering, electric fans, AC and idle in traffic all day long. I know the fuel additive ain't cheap but it's not a daily driver. I do long distance cruises so I can't carry fuel tanks. Race gas mixes with 91-93 octane and gives you what you need in your high comp engine. I am not a paid spokesman, just been using at least a case a year for 3 years so I feel like I have experience with the product, and it works! A cheaper route would be to get lower comp pistons if your running on the street all the time. But then you loose the fun of having that beast of a motor on the streets.
 
New forum sucks on phone. Oops

Anyway. No to iron heads, Indy 360-2. Why? Cause I was thinking of cruising further without needing to pack fuel. This is a street car, power everything but no a/c. It's 600hp, so like I said no biggee if I lose power. I know I could pull off pump gas with 11:1. You'd think retarding could take care of enough. I guess I could try and see what happens. To the other post about that additive, I've seen that stuff online but would rather not need anything.
 
Aluminum heads,,It may be possible, but maybe boarder line.I ran a 451 with Edelbrock heads,10.5 pistons,5* initial on 87 octane during the Power Tour with no detonation.Just to see if it would pull it off. Also engine operating temperature may come into play too. So maybe..
 
Aluminum heads,,It may be possible, but maybe boarder line.I ran a 451 with Edelbrock heads,10.5 pistons,5* initial on 87 octane during the Power Tour with no detonation.Just to see if it would pull it off. Also engine operating temperature may come into play too. So maybe..

Good to know. I may have to experiment a bit. This motor run 180deg all day long until you get over 90 outside. Then stop n go will bring it up closer to 200. But hiway it stays cool too 100deg ambient no prob.
 
Good to know. I may have to experiment a bit. This motor run 180deg all day long until you get over 90 outside. Then stop n go will bring it up closer to 200. But hiway it stays cool too 100deg ambient no prob.

It will probably run hotter, I backed down the timing on my 10.5:1 360 with iron Mag heads from 34 total/mech to around 30-31 to stop pinging and it worked with very little loss in power but it does run hotter now. Used to barely go over 180* now it hangs around 190-195.
 
If it really has 12:1 and you back the timing down until it runs on pump gas, you will see a few things. All bad. It will run like total crap, have no power or drivability and it will also run hot and put way too much heat into the exhaust. It may even be bad on exhaust valves.

Retarding the timing makes the combustion process happen too late. As such. the combustion is still happening when the exhaust valve opens, dumping the still burning mixture into the exhaust.

It will be a really stupid thing to do all the way around.
 
^ what he said.

That's why your choices are to lower the compression via a piston change, hook up a trailer and carry a barrel or two of race fuel or carry a few 32 ounce cans of race-gas.

Alternately, you could just get an old truck and trailer and tow it around.
 
e85 carb. I live in the stix where e85 is everywhere
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If it has aluminum heads,and depending on the Dcr, here's what I would try;
What I would be trying to do is reduce the chamber temperature, to some level below the detonation threshold.
Then once it is detonation-free, I would start increasing the loading and increasing the coolant temp.

The very first thing is the cooling system.I would install a 160stat.I would make sure the cooling system can maintain a maximum of 180*F. If it cannot run a stable temperature, at or below 180*F,I would not proceed until it can. I would ensure the engine gets only fresh cold air.
I would disconnect the secondaries,and disconnect the Vcan(for now). I would run 3.55s or better, and a 2800TC or better,and a stand-alone tranny cooler.And I would run tires that fit in the stock tubs;ie 28 or shorter.
Then I would try it. with the 91
If detonation persists, I would figure out how little timing the engine will accept at about every 500 rpm,from 1500 to 4500, and build a timing curve to get it done. I would probably start with resetting the initial timing to 14/16*and the power-timing to 32*@ 4000. I might install a small Vcan, say 10*, and run it direct to manifold vacuum. That way the idle timing would be 24 to 26*. These are some of the things I would try.
Once the engine is running detonation-free, I would bring the secondaries back on line, and try it.
Then increase the minimum engine running temp with a 180stat
Then try to bring the power-timing in a little earlier.

If you have a 12.2 engine, there's a good chance you already have most of these elements,like; the gears,TC,Cooler,and street tires. So it shouldn't be too difficult to get the rest. If you don't have fresh air, pull the hood off for now, if it is legal for you to do so.
If you have a pretty big cam,(which would decrease the Dcr), you may get this to work,with some powerloss.
If you have a small cam,HaH! (with accompanying high Dcr),this is a probably,no-win situation.

I ran 10.7Scr,8.2Dcr with an aluminum headed 367, on 87E10 for over 14 years and 100,000 miles. Some of those miles were at 11.2/8.7, also on 87E10. I ran full timing of32 to 34, and loading was a non-issue. Except for the very first year,I have always run it at 200*F or a bit better.I did have to put fresh-air on it. At 11.2, I delayed my power-timing to 3600.This combo went 93 in the 1/8th and doing the math on that, makes about 420hp.

And like said, if all this fails, there's always water/meth injection.And if you go this way, you can put everything back where you found it.
EDIT
Hold on there;I just noticed on your home page, that you are running about 600hp; so then you're probably running a stroker.And Red Deere is probably a little higher than Winnipeg,Where I am(900ft) And you have got to be running a pretty big cam, so your ICA might be 70 to 76 *, Making your Dcr a hair under 9/1. If I'm close, then you are very close to being able to run 91 exactly as you are. Especially if your car is really light, and already has fresh air,and if you stay out of the secondaries.
So, then new plan. Block the secondaries closed,delay your power-timing to somewhere after 3600, Keep the engine cool,and road test it on pure 91.
So forget about all that earlier stuff.If it takes it try either bringing the timing in a little earlier OR see if she will take some secondary; but not both at the same time.
 
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Good day,

I know I will lose abunch of power but could I take enough timing out to run 12.2:1 compression on 91octane with no detonation?
Currently for max power it's set at 34deg all in but I run 100LL AV gas or I mix 50/50 premium with race fuel.
Thanks.


How did the car run on the AV gas? I'm thinking of running my 10:1 340 on it...the pump gas here seems to get worse every year.
 
How did the car run on the AV gas? I'm thinking of running my 10:1 340 on it...the pump gas here seems to get worse every year.

FWIW, I run my 10.7 -360 on 87E10(aluminum heads). Always have . 223/230/110 cam, or 230/237/110, same results.With iron heads, and 10.0,you should be good on 89/91, depending how SMALL your cam is.Feel free tp PM me.
 
FWIW, I run my 10.7 -360 on 87E10(aluminum heads). Always have . 223/230/110 cam, or 230/237/110, same results.With iron heads, and 10.0,you should be good on 89/91, depending how SMALL your cam is.Feel free tp PM me.
I just ran it this weekend and it was pinging a bit on Shell 91, last summer I filled it at the same station all summer and did not have any problem so I was going to just run AV 50/50, I don't want to start changing the timing or messing with things as the car runs good and only pings under full load.
Cam is a Crane 691191 solid 480 238 int 500 248 in a 9.8:1 340
 
How did the car run on the AV gas? I'm thinking of running my 10:1 340 on it...the pump gas here seems to get worse every year.

Runs great on the AV Gas, no issues. And I was buying it at the airport for 1.50-1.75 litre last couple years, so it's not a lot more then premium as of late. Not sure what price of AV gas is now. I still have a full drum to burn up before I find out.
 
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