Cheap insulation. Is there such a thing?

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RustyRatRod

RustyRatRod

I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday.
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I am in middle Georgia so it does not get too terribly cold for too long. But it does get pretty hot in the summer. My shop is made from one of those metal awning kits and was enclosed. 24x28 with 12 foot peak and about 9.5 foot sides. Two 10x10 roll up doors and one 4 foot personnel door. Is there a cheap insulation I can get and do a little at a time that will help keep the temp stable? Maybe help if I ever get an A/C unit or some heat out there?
 
You didn't say what you have for interior walls. I'm imagining just a corrugated steel panel between inside and outside. If that's the case, anything you add to the inside to create a dead air space between the walls will be a great help. Keep it white though. Black poly will soak up all the light.
Next time you're at a convenience store, look at their temporary Coca-Cola and Budwiser displays. That material is a corrugated styrene, about a 1/4 inch thick and contains its own dead air space. It is a great insulator. Light weight enough to install with most any adhesive.
It is quite flammable though, doesn't pass any fire code.
 
Yeah that's all I have. The metal studs with the sheet metal screwed to the outside. I aint sure I want anything flammable in there.
 
Im not sure of cost down there Rob, Blown in insulation is a cheaper way here. Poly the ceiling and blow it in. Here you can get the machine free if you buy a certain amount of insulation. Since its blown in you can move it around easily to add wiring, duct work ect. Hope it helps
 
I think we have hit the "Magic Triangle".
Pick any two. Can't have all three.



If it has to be fire resistant, that rules out cardboard and scrap bubble wrap, etc.

The only thing that comes to mind is foil backed poly.
It's only R 4

Which reminds me to go to Lowes Depot this AM and get a fire bottle for the car.
 

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So is the structure metal? Can you put a basic frame up? Sheetrock will help a great deal.

Not sure if foam board insulation is cheaper than fiberglass rolls, probably almost the same for the same area. You'd probably only need 1/4" or a lower R rating since the temp swings in your area are not that great. Your cost obviously would be in volume.

My garage is wood framed and unheated but it is insulated and sheet rocked which helps regulate the temp pretty well. Sure it gets very cold or very hot but the temp inside does not change as fast as it does outside which mitigates condensation somewhat. I don't remember how much it cost to do my 20x22 garage but it was not terribly expensive, probably a couple hundred bucks for the sheet rock and insulation. I did the job myself.

My ceiling is uninsulated though - obviously I lose a lot of heat there when its cold and it can get really hot in there during the summer. Poor construction in my house made it tough to do right so I went without. If I was to re-do it, I would insulate the ceiling.
 
Reflectix-
Bubble insulation is ideal for crawl spaces, radiant floor heating, and basic floor heat retention applications as well as for insulating pole barns, post frame, and metal and steel buildings.

This is what I used on my Metal Pole Barn. You don't want to use regular insulation with metal walls it will cause the walls to rust.

Here is what it looks like , this is not my Garage just a picture off there site.
 

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Cat on a hot tin roof.

Good morning Trip... That's an interesting question.
I presume that your shop gets direct sun most if not all of the day essentially making it a hot box. What we have here is a cool Hand Luke scenario (sorry).

My first thought is shade, if you could provide shade to keep the sun off of your shop that would be a huge step. If shade is not an option. I would recommend installing an exhaust fan and fresh air vents to draw air through the shop which could help keep the heat from staying trapped inside the shop.

Insulation is also a good idea but keep in mind that it works both way (keeping temp out and in). I suppose you could go to the local DIY warehouse store to pick insulation up there. Some things I would consider:

* if the garage is dry you can go with either roll or panel.
* if the garage is wet I would stay away from roll because it could trap water.

I believe that one thing will marginally improve the situation alone. But a combination of air circulation and insulation will yield improved result. Better result will come from insulation combined with AC. Best result come from a combination of shade, insulation and AC.

I know that this info isn't an earth shattering revelation. It's just food for thought.

Take care.

AlV
 
Another easy insulator is a hedge like Leland Cyprus. They grow very fast and serve as both sun and wind break. More beneficial in summer. Set 6 or 8 feet off the wall, 10 or 12 feet apart.
 
dwire67 said:
Reflectix-
Click to expand...

Two things about that reflective stuff - first is the adhesive backing. Most of them are petroleum based and can give off an odor, especially when it gets warm. Second, AFAIK, it's way more expensive per square foot than regular insulation. Not sure where you got yours and how much you paid for a roll but based on what I've seen it going for (even at the big box stores) it wouldn't be a cost-effective solution for a larger area.

I can speak from direct experience regarding the odor as I used some of it on the floor of my car. I had to drill a decent-sized hole through some of it. The heat from the drill caused the surrounding area to get warm and it definitely smelled of petroleum product. Not overwhelming but enough to notice, even from a small spot. If you covered your whole interior with it, you would notice it for sure.
 
AlV said:
Cat on a hot tin roof.

Good morning Trip... That's an interesting question.
I presume that your shop gets direct sun most if not all of the day essentially making it a hot box. What we have here is a cool Hand Luke scenario (sorry).

My first thought is shade, if you could provide shade to keep the sun off of your shop that would be a huge step. If shade is not an option. I would recommend installing an exhaust fan and fresh air vents to draw air through the shop which could help keep the heat from staying trapped inside the shop.

Insulation is also a good idea but keep in mind that it works both way (keeping temp out and in). I suppose you could go to the local DIY warehouse store to pick insulation up there. Some things I would consider:

* if the garage is dry you can go with either roll or panel.
* if the garage is wet I would stay away from roll because it could trap water.

I believe that one thing will marginally improve the situation alone. But a combination of air circulation and insulation will yield improved result. Better result will come from insulation combined with AC. Best result come from a combination of shade, insulation and AC.

I know that this info isn't an earth shattering revelation. It's just food for thought.

Take care.

AlV
Click to expand...


X2 the above...that's what I found when I built my shop. The only thing I'd add is consider a spray on heat block as part the the "shade"...do your research and pick one that blocks at least 80% of the radiant heat...I used STSCoatings. not flammable and won't smoke. You can brush, roller, or spray it on. The temp will still be the same as outside, but it will be like standing in the shade...add airflow and it's like being in the shade with the wind blowing. It gets really hot here in Tx and I can work in my metal shop even when it's over 100. I'm not in there everyday though. Best is heat block, small airspace layer, insulation, drywall, air conditioning...especially if you'll be working in there every day. On a tight budget like I was on the heat block has been great. Blocking that radiant heat is key to keeping all the metal inside your shop heating up that then heating you up. You can spot spray roof hot spots to save $$ too...say a tree provides 1/4 shade...well, you get the idea. I checked Internet auction sites and found panelling to do most of my shop for $5. Tax collector bought the old Sears building and wanted the panelling gone...sad when the tax office is expanding and business's are leaving!
 
Look a Celtex it comes in 4x8 sheets and it is fairly cheap, it is foil backed foam.
Lowes sell it for about $7.00 a sheet.
I have it on the celing of my garage, it made a huge difference in keeping heat in.
 
Just a question.....what would be wrong with roll in fiberglass insulation?
 
rmchrgr said:
Two things about that reflective stuff - first is the adhesive backing. Most of them are petroleum based and can give off an odor, especially when it gets warm. Second, AFAIK, it's way more expensive per square foot than regular insulation. Not sure where you got yours and how much you paid for a roll but based on what I've seen it going for (even at the big box stores) it wouldn't be a cost-effective solution for a larger area.

I can speak from direct experience regarding the odor as I used some of it on the floor of my car. I had to drill a decent-sized hole through some of it. The heat from the drill caused the surrounding area to get warm and it definitely smelled of petroleum product. Not overwhelming but enough to notice, even from a small spot. If you covered your whole interior with it, you would notice it for sure.
Click to expand...

It does not have any tar backing at all, it is aluminum foil on both sides with bubble wrap in the middle-basicly and I did a 24x32 pole barn with it
It was $60 a roll for 4' wide and 100' long and I think I used 5 rolls?
Beside spray in insulation Pioneer Pole Buildings only says to use this stuff.
Fiberglass insulation will hold moisture and cause the metal to Rust and the insulation to mold
 
One problem with rigid foam it has to be covered with dry wall , since it burns very quick and gives off very nasty fumes

The other problem with fiberglass is rodents love it!
Bubble insulation also does not provide a growth medium or nutritive value for fungus, insects, or rodents
 
Another thing to keep in mind is vapor barrier. I don't know what "you folks" do down there with the humidity. Depending on the situation, the climate, you can generate a situation where the wall cavities and insulation become a sponge for condensing moisture. Very bad.

That of course is not an issue with things like rigid foam but IS an issue with stuff like fiberglass batting
 
Contact the people in your area that build and sell metal building supplies. There are several In my area. They usually insulate as the building is assembled. Some use plastic backed, some use foil backed and some use foil/bubble/foil. All of it is pretty low in R-value, maybe R6. Most fiberglass for 2x4 walls is R11-R13, and would have to be enclosed.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Just a question.....what would be wrong with roll in fiberglass insulation?
Click to expand...

Roll in fiberglass on metal walls = water in the fiberglass, not good.

Your best bet is closed cell vs. open cell spray in foam, it won't allow for condensation and it won't absorb moisture.
 
Did not read all of the post so if this has been mentioned sorry......if it has a metal roof you will need to create a barrier of sorts to keep the hot air in the winter and cool air in the summer form reaching it......otherwise you will get condensation issues. Just stuffing insulation up against will not work to prevent this, all it takes is one very small air leak that allows the heated/cooled air to reach it and it will start dripping. Same with the sides except on the sides it will just saturate the insulation. Might end with a mold farm if you are not careful...
 
Bad Sport said:
Roll in fiberglass on metal walls = water in the fiberglass, not good.

Your best bet is closed cell vs. open cell spray in foam, it won't allow for condensation and it won't absorb moisture.
Click to expand...

This stuff is VERY pricey......And if not done right will end of falling off....There was a very large law suit a while back against one of the companies that manufactures/installs spray foam insulation....
 
dwire67 said:
It does not have any tar backing at all, it is aluminum foil on both sides with bubble wrap in the middle-basicly and I did a 24x32 pole barn with it
It was $60 a roll for 4' wide and 100' long and I think I used 5 rolls?
Beside spray in insulation Pioneer Pole Buildings only says to use this stuff.
Fiberglass insulation will hold moisture and cause the metal to Rust and the insulation to mold
Click to expand...

Guess I didn't know the specifics on that particular brand, my reference for it was the Thermo tec stuff in my car. Thanks for the info, seems like a good thing to use.
 
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