Cheap insulation. Is there such a thing?

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RustyRatRod said:
Just a question.....what would be wrong with roll in fiberglass insulation?
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One thing about fiberglass insulation is that it will mold if it gets damp. You're in Georgia, which gets pretty humid I would imagine. Check out Roxul mineral wool insulation. It will not mold and it's fire resistant. It's also a better insulator than fiberglass.

http://www.roxul.com/stone+wool/overview/fire+resistance

I'll be using it when we remodel our house next year.
 
lilcuda said:
One thing about fiberglass insulation is that it will mold if it gets damp. ......................... Check out Roxul mineral wool insulation. It will not mold ..............................
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What you say may be true, but it might leave a false impression

ANY "open" insulation such as bats MUST have at least one vapor barrier..........in this country it's the warm side of the installation, and as Inkjunkie pointed out, ANY opening can allow moisture to condense.

In the case of something "extreme" like a freezer cabinet...........to show how bad this can be...........a very small unsealed opening in the outer skin can allow moister to collect which will freeze, expand, and ruin the cabinet

My point is you MUST have a moisture barrier. I'm not familiar with convention "down there" in the south, so Rob needs to check this. Where it's very humid both indoors and out, an inner / outer barrier might be pretty much required.

Convention up here with these metal skin "pole" (kit) buildings is a completely sealed bat affair that looks sort of like a mattress........the entire bat is sealed into a bag, outer and inner. THAT particular stuff must be very expensive to buy
 
:D:D:DI paid 220.00 for 1006ft of r13 for my shop walls and have some left..:D:D:D:D:D
 
I don't think there is such a thing as cheap insulation. But if you're on a budget, like I was when looking for insulation, check Craigslist regularly. I found a smoking deal on some polyiso that I used on my project. It has a super high R value, easy to work with too.
 
In the Georgia heat, I think the cheapest and most effective temp control isn't insulation and a/c. I would spray the outer surface of the metal roof with highly reflective silver or white paint and install a high CFM exhaust fan either in the roof or as up high in one of the gables as possible.

If you do go with insulation, insulate the roof 1st as most of the solar gain will be through that roof. But paint it 1st.

Your issue in summertime is the sun heats that roof and the roof heats the air in the shop. Limit that solar gain and get that hot air out of the shop and you'll see a nice improvement for pennies on the dollar vs insulation and a/c.
 
The outside of the building is already white.
 
Rob have you ever thought of spraying the outside of your building with truck liner to seal it so it could be insulated it on the inside? It's not common to do but that is what the liner spray was originally designed for the military to spray the outside of the buildings.
 
Cliff, I think if I did that, I would do the inside, since the outside is white.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Cliff, I think if I did that, I would do the inside, since the outside is white.
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It can be used inside and out.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fURK1n00WEk"]Safe Room Walls Made Possible by Polyurethane Spray Lining - YouTube[/ame]
 
Check out the bigger companies.The laminate guys get theirs shipped in crates with a Styrofoam insulation in the crate its 3/4 -1/2 white They will give it to you free and it works great for insulation. Up here when its cold we even sit on it outside amazing stuff and I get it for free.
 
340duster340 said:
you can put an oscillating sprinkler on the roof on really hot days to help with the heat.
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That sounds nuts, but really works. The key is to cool the roof, prevent the roof from transfering the heat to the room (roof insulation) and then removing what gets through (exhaust fan in the hot zone).
 
spray insulation is high.I was going to do it when I built my shop so I got the cheaper stuff!I use this blue board insulation on my 18 wheeler roof It helped the temps.


 
Just some info on heat block products. Look carefully at emissivity (e) big word alert! It is "the relative ability of surface to emit energy by radiation." Low number like .1 to .2 good; high number like .8 bad. The Reflective Insulation Manufacturers Association (RIMA) establishes standards and rates Radiant Barriers....according to STS Coatings they are rated #1 by RIMA. i have visited their facility and talked to old farmers around here who have used their product and I can recommend them...hey, maybe they're looking for distributors in GA...you could be RadiantRustyRatRod! Sorry, been a long day.

I looked at PPG info above and saw e of .8--this is bad...hopefully a misprint or I'm messed up. But I was equally not impressed with how little heat it reflects and how after 3 years it's even worse...wouldn't waste my money on that. You can have something that reflects well, but if it HEATS up and allows the heat to pass through it into your shop (high emissivity) your going to be feeling the heat! This is why it can be 100 outside and 130 in your metal shop...the metal roof with high emissivity let's through energy which will heat objects above the outside air temperature based on the metal properties present.

The bubble wrap stuff with aluminum on either side sounds cool...and the Free insulation. A combo where the sun hits hardest would really help for the least $$. The radiant heat barrier won't hurt if down the road you decide to insulate and air condition...in fact, it'll lower your electric bill considerably. I give radiant heat block a thumbs up for cost and simplicity...if I was going to work in there everyday I'd insulate and a/c, but I was on a budget and started w/ heat block as a foundation. Just my 2 cents. Good luck with whatever you decide!
 
ht413 said:
That sounds nuts, but really works. The key is to cool the roof, prevent the roof from transfering the heat to the room (roof insulation) and then removing what gets through (exhaust fan in the hot zone).
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yup! it's what I do in the summer
 
340duster340 said:
you can put an oscillating sprinkler on the roof on really hot days to help with the heat.
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Actually you could even build a water recovery system, IE gutters into a tank which acts as the source for the sprinkler. A giant swamp cooler. There are "some" commercial buildings which have similar schemes. I thought about doing that one time, run say, a 3/4" pvc on the roof line drilled full of holes with a small pump. Would not take much.

Below, example, is or was the then new Penny's store at University Shopping center in Spokane. I used to maintain the AC on that roof a giant PITA. It had an expensive rubber membrane roof, covered with round river stones and was uncomfortable as 'ell to walk on. But it retained about 1" of water which acted as a giant cooling device.

On a side note, look how damn close the AC units are to the roof edge, There is no parapet there, and a couple of them are less than 8' from a Great Big fall. This was before OSHA and others decided to mandate fall protection on roofs.
 

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MrDuster said:
Just some info on heat block products. Look carefully at emissivity (e) big word alert! It is "the relative ability of surface to emit energy by radiation." Low number like .1 to .2 good; high number like .8 bad. The Reflective Insulation Manufacturers Association (RIMA) establishes standards and rates Radiant Barriers....according to STS Coatings they are rated #1 by RIMA. i have visited their facility and talked to old farmers around here who have used their product and I can recommend them...hey, maybe they're looking for distributors in GA...you could be RadiantRustyRatRod! Sorry, been a long day.

I looked at PPG info above and saw e of .8--this is bad...hopefully a misprint or I'm messed up. But I was equally not impressed with how little heat it reflects and how after 3 years it's even worse...wouldn't waste my money on that. You can have something that reflects well, but if it HEATS up and allows the heat to pass through it into your shop (high emissivity) your going to be feeling the heat! This is why it can be 100 outside and 130 in your metal shop...the metal roof with high emissivity let's through energy which will heat objects above the outside air temperature based on the metal properties present.

The bubble wrap stuff with aluminum on either side sounds cool...and the Free insulation. A combo where the sun hits hardest would really help for the least $$. The radiant heat barrier won't hurt if down the road you decide to insulate and air condition...in fact, it'll lower your electric bill considerably. I give radiant heat block a thumbs up for cost and simplicity...if I was going to work in there everyday I'd insulate and a/c, but I was on a budget and started w/ heat block as a foundation. Just my 2 cents. Good luck with whatever you decide!
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Great point, I only picked the PPG because it's common paint name thrown around the B Body site (where i normally hang out). Armed with your insight, I bet Rob could lower his temps quite a bit.
 
67Dart273 said:
Actually you could even build a water recovery system, IE gutters into a tank which acts as the source for the sprinkler. A giant swamp cooler. There are "some" commercial buildings which have similar schemes. I thought about doing that one time, run say, a 3/4" pvc on the roof line drilled full of holes with a small pump. Would not take much.

Below, example, is or was the then new Penny's store at University Shopping center in Spokane. I used to maintain the AC on that roof a giant PITA. It had an expensive rubber membrane roof, covered with round river stones and was uncomfortable as 'ell to walk on. But it retained about 1" of water which acted as a giant cooling device.
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Hey, Rob, you guys have some smart people here on the A Body board, take their advice! Evaporative cooling system, heck, as a test, you could run a garden hose up to the roof and literally connect it to enough sprinkler to cover most of the roof. It'll work. Water recovery system - take a roof leader and dump it into a 55 gal drum or a spare garbage can. Drop a submersible pump in there in the 30-50 psi and 2-3 gpm range would do fine.

Honestly, I would try this before paying for a roof coating. You may find that if you do it yourself and buy wholesale, the roof coating might be well within a reasonable price range, but if you get this to work, this could make it unnecessary and cost maybe an afternoon of work and very little money.

FAR less labor and FAR less operating cost than insulating the shop and running an A/C all summer.
 
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