Clear up something in the original trans-am cars?

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Chevrolet 302 engine
1968: The Chevrolet 302 cubic inch engine with cross-ram intake manifold and double-pump carburetors took the Chevrolet Camaro to back-to-back SCCA Trans-Am championships in 1968 and 1969. The small engine was capable of producing 458 horsepower at 7200 rpm. (Photo by ISC Images & Archives via Getty Images)
hevrolet-302-cubic-inch-engine-with-crossram-intake-manifold-and-picture-id107459934?s=2048x2048.jpg
 
interesting picture, makes me wonder if that was a nascar gt or "baby grand" car.
The roll cage and shock mounting don't look TA legal.
 
sccachallenger said:
interesting picture, makes me wonder if that was a nascar gt or "baby grand" car.
The roll cage and shock mounting don't look TA legal.
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I don't have the specifics on the car itself. The photo from Getty and brief description may just have been focused on the SBC cross ram.
 
When I was flipping cars in the 80s, I had at least one version of any of the T/A cars at the time- Boss 302, Z29 with 302 etc. Javelin with 304, and both a TA Challenger and AAR cuda. The AAR is one of the few cars I will be looking to get again in my life.
 
Mattax said:
Exactly. Those pictured above are not built to 1970 trans-am rules.
There was an independent entry named Robinson in 1970 that drove an A-body Barracuda. The factory backed teams that year were all E-bodies and unfortunately had a lot to work out with both a new chassis and engine.
http://www.historictransam.com/results/1970.pdf

Several of the surviving cars are raced in a series called "Historic Trans-am" here's two - they are updated in various ways, but the original chassis.
Historic Trans Am
Historic Trans Am

Tony Adamowicz is one of several who noted that in '66 the 273's did not have the power of the Ford's but made up for that in handling. Tony Adamowicz, Group44 Dodge Dart

Tony also drove an Autodynamics' car at Riverside in 1970. Tony Adamowicz, 1970 Trans-Am, Dodge Challenger
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How bout that 77 car? She is beautiful! Thanks for a great post!
 
Cruisingram said:
When I was flipping cars in the 80s, I had at least one version of any of the T/A cars at the time- Boss 302, Z29 with 302 etc. Javelin with 304, and both a TA Challenger and AAR cuda. The AAR is one of the few cars I will be looking to get again in my life.
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AAR My favorite of the 340 E body's
 
When I was at Navy electronics school at Treasure Island, 68-69, there was the "orange club." One guy had a 69 Z28, another had a 67 GTX painted that color, and a fellow student had a brand new 69 383 4 speed RR that Daddy had bought him. They used to park up against one of the fences during morning muster LOL

One evening the guy who owned the RR, Dave, came to the ham club which was on the NW corner of the island. He had "duty" and was in dungarees, and back then you could not go off base in that uniform. He came in and told me "you have to see this." I went out there and here's a brand new Weiand with a pair of 2--4's on there. "Let's go for a ride" says Dave. "How you gonna get off base?" I asked. He fired that ***** up and roared right down the W side of the island, a fairly straight stretch, doing nowhere near the 25mph limit. Suddenly down toward the main gate end, he pulled over. "I'm f##ked". I looked back and you could barely SEE the 1 candlepower blinker on the SP truck. The whole deal was "gone" shortly. He and another student played tournaments in the "golf club" with some Commander. The Commander pulled rank on the head of base security, and all Dave got was "base restriction" for a couple weeks.
 
Mattax said:
Exactly. Those pictured above are not built to 1970 trans-am rules.
There was an independent entry named Robinson in 1970 that drove an A-body Barracuda. The factory backed teams that year were all E-bodies and unfortunately had a lot to work out with both a new chassis and engine.
http://www.historictransam.com/results/1970.pdf

Not to mention the battle of egos going on while building these cars
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67Dart273 said:
My neighbor is about 55, and he'd recently run across a guy with a "somewhat original" 68 or 9 Z28. We were talking about this and it occurred to me............

Chev created the 302/ Z28 for TA even though it was "pretty easy" for them by juggling SB Chev parts
Even so, it was a "new" created engine for that program so much as the required production vehicles

Ditto Ford, Boss 302, which really was a new engine creation, and they were also sold to the public as such

But Chrysler? CREATED NO SUCH street version of the destroked race engines. How did they "get by" with the rules of so many production numbers using the 340, instead of the destroked race engines?
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Negative 305 max
 
A56 said:
Chevrolet 302 engine
1968: The Chevrolet 302 cubic inch engine with cross-ram intake manifold and double-pump carburetors took the Chevrolet Camaro to back-to-back SCCA Trans-Am championships in 1968 and 1969. The small engine was capable of producing 458 horsepower at 7200 rpm. (Photo by ISC Images & Archives via Getty Images)
View attachment 1715911127
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Dual quads were okay, heck , MoPAr fan a six pack
 
Prior to 1967, Chevrolet didn't have much presence. The v8 cars under the 5 liter limit were 273 mopars, and 289 mustangs. I don't remember who won in 66. In 67 the Camaro showed up, and got their *** kicked with their 283, the corporate put together the 327 block with a 283 crank, and Shazam! Z28! Winner!
In 68, with the requirement of a FACTORY five liter (no destroking allowed, yet) the Z28s kicked *** again. Mopar knew the 273 was hopelessly uncompetitive, so they didnt try, Ford tried a tunnel port head on the 289, that was a complete failure.
69, still no destroking allowed, so Ford built a street boss 302 to be competitive, but i think Mark Donohues sunoco camaro still won.
1970, destroking allowed, Mopar late to the party, is uncompetitive, Parnell Jones boss 302 mustang is champ.
1971l AMC goes all out with the Javelin, I think I remember gm and Ford pulling major sponsorship, Javelin win kinda by default.
After AMC won, nobody cared anymore...
 
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Not sure I'd agree with that uncompetitive statement. For the first year of a doomed program I think both teams did really well. I mean by 1970 ford had been at it casually in '66, and seriously since '67. And gm seriously since '67. even amc had a couple of years on the Mopar teams. Too bad support didn't continue at least one more year. Great reflections on that era in Bob Tarozzi's book, a must read for a Mopar fan!
 
sccachallenger said:
Not sure I'd agree with that uncompetitive statement. For the first year of a doomed program I think both teams did really well. I mean by 1970 ford had been at it casually in '66, and seriously since '67. And gm seriously since '67. even amc had a couple of years on the Mopar teams. Too bad support didn't continue at least one more year. Great reflections on that era in Bob Tarozzi's book, a must read for a Mopar fan!
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I will stipulate that the mopars were fast..... when they weren't broke, Swede Savage in particular. If I remember right, it was an engine oiling problem that resulted in most of the DNF's.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I think I am correct in saying the cars used for sanctioned Trans AM races were destroked to 305 CI.

I think I understand what you're asking though. In other words, WHY wasn't Chrysler forced to make the street cars the 305 cubes? I have no clue.
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Yes, Chrysler used a destroked 340 motor for the racing Barracudas and Challengers, because it was within the rule space for T/A racing. Actually go look at the real specs for the Chev and Ford motors used for T/A racing and those which were made for the 'public' sold vehicles and you will see the differences that where there also.
 
Professor Fate said:
And actually, the "original" Mopar Trans-Am cars ran 273s...
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Yep they were the hipo 2783's solid lifters, different intake with the modified single/dual plain method, larger journals and bearings but same as that in street cars. Really good motors. Because of the head design of 273's Chrysler felt they would do better with the 340 type head - X or J, do not remember which -. destroked with factory stuff. Great motors, had friend in Alaska who had a real racing T/A Challenger, what a car to drive/ Sure was more than the advertised 275hp, mnore like 400 plus.
 
I had a ton (8 or 10) of AARs and TAs back in late 80s early 90s. I studied them a lot but I have forgot most of what I knew!
One article I remember said, the TA was mostly not too competative due to being too heavy..it was built by committee and each guy that built his portion, tried to make it super strong and thus too heavy!!!
 
boblonben said:
Yep they were the hipo 2783's solid lifters, different intake with the modified single/dual plain method, larger journals and bearings but same as that in street cars. Really good motors. Because of the head design of 273's Chrysler felt they would do better with the 340 type head - X or J, do not remember which -. destroked with factory stuff. Great motors, had friend in Alaska who had a real racing T/A Challenger, what a car to drive/ Sure was more than the advertised 275hp, mnore like 400 plus.
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Do you remember his name? I was pretty connected to the Mopar scene there and still am a bit. The pic of my valiant in my avatar is at the Alaska track!.I never did see a TA prepped ebody there!
 
boblonben said:
Yep they were the hipo 2783's solid lifters, different intake with the modified single/dual plain method, larger journals and bearings but same as that in street cars. Really good motors. Because of the head design of 273's Chrysler felt they would do better with the 340 type head - X or J, do not remember which -. destroked with factory stuff. Great motors, had friend in Alaska who had a real racing T/A Challenger, what a car to drive/ Sure was more than the advertised 275hp, mnore like 400 plus.
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I can't imagine a "real racing T/A" having just 275 hp. The offering to the public with the six pack intake were advertised as 290hp.
 
barbee6043 said:
I had a ton (8 or 10) of AARs and TAs back in late 80s early 90s. I studied them a lot but I have forgot most of what I knew!
One article I remember said, the TA was mostly not too competative due to being too heavy..it was built by committee and each guy that built his portion, tried to make it super strong and thus too heavy!!!
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Yeh, they should have made a "TA" "A" body. Could have called it a T/A-A !!
 
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