Coilovers?????

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inkjunkie

inkjunkie

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The following OPINON is my own. The torsion bar cross member is what supports the weight of the car from the factory. The top shock mounts purpose was to mount the top of the dampner, aka shock, not support the weight of the car. If you look at the picture you will see the car with the inner sheet metal fenders removed and the top shock mounts exposed. Now I can only speak for the a-bodies I have owned the top shock mount is in NO WAY connected to this sheet metal. What this means, in my eyes, is that if the upper shock mount were to see the weight of the car placed onto it it will at some point flex into the sheet metal inner fender. This inner fender is only spot welded onto the car. And where it is connected to the spot welded sheetmetal inner fender it is below the top shock mount, on a different "plane" if you will. Understanding a bit about leverage I fail to see how this flimsy arrangement is going to stop the top shock mount from flexing.
 

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Lived in AZ for years. Friends son owns a fab shop & I was around several offroad trucks. Sure complete different animal, but I got to ask a ton of questions over the years. And one thing is no different if you are talking about coil overs under the nose of an a-body or under the front of a Class 7 Ranger, pre runner or a Trophy truck, the top shock mount in a coil over style of shock sees a TON of stress. In trucks where there is often a ton of room under the hood it is a fairly easy solution.....Some may say this might be overkill, but my buddy has never had an issue with a frame getting destroyed from it flexing, shock mounts ripped off etc. Now sure, this options are not real feasible on our cars, as there just is not enough room....
 

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It will flex, that's why you have to reinforce it (think rms style). Or so type of j bar tied into the firewall and subframe (just look at the aftermarket setup on a 66-67 Nova, you'll get the idea).
 
Again, this is just my OPINION. I did speak to my buddy about this way back when & he agreed with the basic design of a snout bar.
 

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1970Duster said:
It will flex, that's why you have to reinforce it (think rms style). Or so type of j bar tied into the firewall and subframe (just look at the aftermarket setup on a 66-67 Nova, you'll get the idea).
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I am getting to this part, just slow typing thanks to my recnet surgery.....
 
No big deal. How about a set of bar similar to these?? Not the best picture, but hopefully you get the idea. Even with them just welded to a plate on the firewall and to the outside of the frame they will help eliminate some of the flexing. As my fab buddy has told me triangulation goes along way to adding stability.
 

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Or seek out a fellow members lower radiator support http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1578055#post1578055 and tie the front of a tube into this, inside the engine compartment, run it thru the inner fender, tie it to the upper shock mount & then weld it to a plate attached to the firewall. If you use the picture as a reference it might help understand. You see where the snout bar comes thru the inner fender, just in front of the motor plate tab. This in itself might work as the tube was welded in that postion for a reason, as a way of tieing the k-frame into the cage of the car. Or back to my original idea, weld Badarts lower radiator support into the car. Attach the front of the tube to the frame rail just above it, have it exit the engine compartment similar to the picture tie it into the upper shock mount & then carry it on to a plate welded onto the firewall. While it might not eliminate ALL of the flexing it will be head & shoulders above just bolting the upper mount of a coil over shock to what ever is handy.
I would like to mention that I am NOT a fabricator, never have been & have never claimed to be. Just someone who has hung around a fab shop & asked a ton of questions of people. There is no doubt a better way to deal with this then what I have been blabbering about, this is just my OPINION. Nothing more.....nothing less.
 

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This is what HemiDenny designed for me... and himself of course.
 

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i looked into doing this on my duster a few months back. i'll admit that some of those designs look great,but i am still not convinced. i think for a street car it would be fine,but for true autocross and road track use i don't think it will fly. i run my car REALLY hard in the turns,and autocross is the worst on a vehicle i think.i have been running adjustable QA1's and i think my frontend was moving around funny just from them being turned up stifff. i went ahead and got some Firm Feel 1.060" t-bars and i am going to try them this year. i also believe if you had a cage through the firewall to the frontend to tie it all together would be the way to go,but that is getting a little too drag race for me personally.
 
HemiMark said:
This is what HemiDenny designed for me... and himself of course.
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Thanks for your input....


wracks71 said:
i looked into doing this on my duster a few months back. i'll admit that some of those designs look great,but i am still not convinced. i think for a street car it would be fine,but for true autocross and road track use i don't think it will fly. i run my car REALLY hard in the turns,and autocross is the worst on a vehicle i think.i have been running adjustable QA1's and i think my frontend was moving around funny just from them being turned up stifff. i went ahead and got some Firm Feel 1.060" t-bars and i am going to try them this year. i also believe if you had a cage through the firewall to the frontend to tie it all together would be the way to go,but that is getting a little too drag race for me personally.
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I am not trying to convince anyone that my opinion is right, as it is just that, my opinion. Thanks for your input...I would like to ad that some of us do not live where the roads are mirror smooth. Perhaps even have to contend with some unimproved dirt roads. While bracing of any sorts may be overkill for some of us. However, I am sure there is more than one of us that have the "bad luck gremlin" hovering over us at all times and I for one would prefer to safe than sorry.....
 
Im with you. As you mentioned, a shock "absorber", doesnt experience NEARLY the loads that a coilover setup will see. The upper coilover mount needs to be fairly stout...I thought of something like HemiDenny designed.
 
curleysracecars said:
Im with you. As you mentioned, a shock "absorber", doesnt experience NEARLY the loads that a coilover setup will see. The upper coilover mount needs to be fairly stout...I thought of something like HemiDenny designed.
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Thanks for your input....
 
curleysracecars said:
Im with you. As you mentioned, a shock "absorber", doesnt experience NEARLY the loads that a coilover setup will see. The upper coilover mount needs to be fairly stout...I thought of something like HemiDenny designed.
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+1 I am working on something like HemiDenny's piece but will also be triangulated with another bar angled back to the outboard side of the firewall. Just to help the frame rail from rolling in or flexing too much.
 
What about the RMS coil over support? It looks like a pretty stout piece that is not mounted to a snout bar.
 
actually...I just sketched it on a cocktail napkin...then Mark at Streiteck puts the "tune" on it.

I have a new stealth coilover support that is simplier and I hope.....even stronger
 
As soon as you had another support, to trianglulate; the space in between acts like there is a solid plate there. Think about how a wood truss works. It thinks it is solid between the webs. Build a wood frame for a box, then stress it, it will give, front/back, side to side. now add plywood(brace) or just a brace; same thing.

Any triangle is structural.
 
think of it like a roll cage, tubes side to side, no strength; add the angled tubes, good to go, it is not twisting/giving anymore. Same principle.
 
HemiDenny said:
actually...I just sketched it on a cocktail napkin...then Mark at Streiteck puts the "tune" on it.

I have a new stealth coilover support that is simplier and I hope.....even stronger
Click to expand...

How about a picture of your Stealth support.
 
Where is a pic Denny? C'mon man spill the beans! If you post a pic i will change my sig.
 
no way Jose'......you boys will just laugh at me and rip it apart....I see how you are
 
Then the dancer continues! lol... :sign1: I'd like to see some pics of the frame rails twisting from the coil over mounts.. it's hard to imagine this happening from the mount.
 
I am doing a coil over conversion right now using Badart's Lower Radiator support & Lower Control Arms, RMS Upper Control Arms, RMS Adjustable Strut Rods, QA1 Single Adjustable Shocks and QA1 400lb springs along with a host of other Steering parts from Firm Feel to finish it all off.

I will be adding snout bars like pictured below....... There will also a Plate where the tube passes through the firewall welded solid.
There will be another 3 Way boxed gusset that will go down into where the shock mount is and it will be all welded solid so the Snout Bar will take most of the load and not just the inner fender.

View attachment my dart 574-1.jpg

View attachment my dart 581-1.jpg

View attachment my dart 582.jpg
 
Luis,

I love that snout bar setup. Do you think it's going to interfer with ur plumbing?
 
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