Coolant in the oil - AGAIN!

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MB43

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Yeah, this old problem is back.

I just had the heads done, they were milled some more and BJR assured me they are flat. I changed the intake from an Edelbrock RPM to a Holley Strip Dominator. I changed the oil today, ran the car for a little while and the oil looks like a milkshake and there's white smoke coming out of the passenger side exhaust.

I pulled all the plugs, the only one that's wet is from cylinder #1 (front passenger side). The intake won't fit if I use the cork ends so I just used RTV on the front and back. I also changed the head gaskets from the Fel-Pro that I was using to the Mopar thin type.

The passenger side intake gasket is wet around the front two ports, more wet from the front of the 1st port to the front of the intake.

Is there a way to tell where the leak is coming from, if it's the intake or a head gasket? I don't want to pull the heads if I don't want to, I can pull the intake tomorrow and re-RTV the front and see if that helps.
 
ramcharger said:
Have you tried just re-tourquing the head? Was the block ever decked?
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Yes, I tried re-torquing the head and the intake. The block was decked a few years ago (2004).
 
I'm hoping that it's just from the intake. You can pressurize the system with a special pump with a radiator neck adapter, but if it's a head gasket or intake manifold, you really can't see the leak.

I would replace the intake gaskets first and rtv the coolant passages and see if that fixes it. The white smoke is a bad sign though......

Does the exhaust smell like coolant?
 
Try a little Permatex High Tack around the water passages front and rear. Spray it on the metal surfaces, not the gasket. It's worked for me more than once. The downside is difficult intake removal in future, but if it don't leak why do you need to remove it? Hope this helps.
 
Just a thought, but with all the milling and decking, are the head locating dowels too long now?
 
ramcharger said:
I'm hoping that it's just from the intake. You can pressurize the system with a special pump with a radiator neck adapter, but if it's a head gasket or intake manifold, you really can't see the leak.

I would replace the intake gaskets first and rtv the coolant passages and see if that fixes it. The white smoke is a bad sign though......

Does the exhaust smell like coolant?
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It's kind tough to get my nose to the exhaust pipe (I tried)... but from where I was standing it didn't smell.

grumpuscreature said:
Try a little Permatex High Tack around the water passages front and rear. Spray it on the metal surfaces, not the gasket. It's worked for me more than once. The downside is difficult intake removal in future, but if it don't leak why do you need to remove it? Hope this helps.
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True, I wouldn't want to remove it once it's on and not leaking. ;-)

I'll try that. But how can I be sure that's where it's leaking from?
 
Theres no chance that it is coming in through an intake bolt? I had this happen, and I had even sealed the threads...or so I thought. I actually had puddles of coolant in the lifter valley. My heads are milled also, and I had to go without gaskets at both ends, just RTV. Also, could one intake bolt be too short to properly thread in deep enough maybe?...yep, I did that also. If there was a way to screw up a Mopar engine....I did it :(
 
Had more than one suck water into the intake port from the water crossover, usually number 2 cylinder, which is the first one on the passenger side. That port is closer to the water crossover than the rest.
 
MtNemoMopar said:
Theres no chance that it is coming in through an intake bolt? I had this happen, and I had even sealed the threads...or so I thought. I actually had puddles of coolant in the lifter valley. My heads are milled also, and I had to go without gaskets at both ends, just RTV. Also, could one intake bolt be too short to properly thread in deep enough maybe?...yep, I did that also. If there was a way to screw up a Mopar engine....I did it :(
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How did you fix that?
 
Just thinking here but did you set the intake on without gaskets to see if the bolt holes line up with the heads?,if they dont the ports wont be exact either.Years ago I had an intake that was a little off on the bolt holes but they would go with a little persuasion and I ended up leaking from the water passage.I was able to cure it with the permatex that was mentioned above but it wasnt until later I realized that if the bolt holes arent perfect niether are the ports.Now in additon to checking the intake without gaskets I actually scribe the ports on the itake and head just to make sure the ports are lined up as close as possible.Anyway Im sure my old intake was warped in addition to needing to be milled for fitment which to me seems to be common with used intakes.
 
Mikel,
Pull the plugs on that side of the engine and see if the plugs are wet if not then it's not getting into the chambers and it's just exh. producing water like newer cars. But pull them just to see, and let us know what the plugs look like and if there rich or clean. A very clean plug may determine a leak of water. But then it's a matter of finding it. A question that has already been asked is how did the intake fit? In alignment? Is the intake flat? Is the surface rough? Do you have the old manifold that fit to put back on? If so try it. Let us know and will go from here.
 
I pulled all the plugs, the only one that was wet (I slapped them against my hand to see if any water would come off) was the front passenger side plug. Everything else was bone dry.

The intake fit fine, the old intake (which I've already sold) had issues lining up properly, with a bit of wiggling I was able to get it to site correctly. This one, I set it down and all of the bolts went right in just like they're supposed to, no issues at all.

The intake gaskets had to be tripped a little bit on each end in order for the ports to line up properly. I had to cut off maybe a 16th of an inch from the bottom of each end, otherwise the ports would sit higher than the ports on the heads.

I could understand the exhaust producing some water if the coolant didn't look like a milkshake.
 
mikelbeck said:
I pulled all the plugs, the only one that was wet (I slapped them against my hand to see if any water would come off) was the front passenger side plug. Everything else was bone dry.

The intake fit fine, the old intake (which I've already sold) had issues lining up properly, with a bit of wiggling I was able to get it to site correctly. This one, I set it down and all of the bolts went right in just like they're supposed to, no issues at all.

The intake gaskets had to be tripped a little bit on each end in order for the ports to line up properly. I had to cut off maybe a 16th of an inch from the bottom of each end, otherwise the ports would sit higher than the ports on the heads.

I could understand the exhaust producing some water if the coolant didn't look like a milkshake.
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Hopefully you found your problem and its the coolant passage seeping into that cylinder,I would try the permatex and make sure that port is sealed reall well as well as the intake bolts.I had a used intake that was milled and sat correctly but the angle to the head was off enough to need the permatex to seal well,also saw one that the coolant passage had just enough minor pitting to cause a little seepage without sealer,good luck.
 
hurry up and drain the oil,the coolant will attack the metal in the bearings and ruin them.drain the radiator,fill the engine with clean engine oil,cheap oil will do,run it for a few minutes(to clean the coolant off of the bearings,mains cam and rod bearings)yes it may sound stupid to run the engine with no coolant but I didn't say overheat it,just flush it with clean oil.after you do this you have the time to look for the problem.make sure the roll pins for the cork gaskets for the ends of the intake manifold are eliminated,GIT RID OF THEM the aftermarket intake is not drilled for them!not the ld 340 not the port o sonic not the performer and not the torker,none of them are drilled!!!!
get some ultra black or gray(I prefer the black if it is visible and use that for the end seals,throw the cork gaskets in the trash!!!!!! even on a bone stock engine,ford chevy amc or mopar,make sure you clean every mating surface properly(razor blade and or wire wheel) and brake cleaner(make sure you cover the engines internals,dont get anything inside of it)like the other guy said try the intake for fit with no gaskets.you should be able to install all of the bolts loosely and figure out which intake gaskets to use,after you figure out if the dowel pins were whats wrong and what gaskets to use just put a paper thin layer of r t v around the water ports on both sides of the gaskets and a 3/8 inch bead ov r.t.v. for the end seals and install the intake carefully and start all of the bolts.snug the middle bolts before moving outward to the end bolts in a spiral and after they are all snug start over at the middle ..............and if that doesn't work you have a busted head or worse yet a busted block,so read these instructions carefully and inspect everything before you worry about using r.t.v.hope this is helpful,if you have a problem or question pm me and I'll give you my number,I've been thru this with oval track engines,maybe I or one of the other members can help you thru this, Good luck!! Curtis
 
If you mill the heads you also have to mill the intake to match. Otherwise the bottom part of the intake gasket sealing surface doesn't make tight contact with the head and you will get water and vacuum leaks.
 
Weren't you talking about doubling up or looking for thicker intake gaskets in another thread?
 
Did you use anyting on the gaskets to seal it up?
 
@waggin - that's some good info, I'll give that a shot. Right after I found the coolant looking milky I drained the oil. I'll do the rest of that today.

@edbux - That doesn't sound familiar.

@rumblefish360 - I used RTV around all the ports on the head side of the gaskets, not so much on the intake side.
 
@edbux - That doesn't sound familiar.

sorry, I'm getting old and try and preserve my 2 remaining brain cells and probably confused threads.

Definitely use RTV on both sides of the gasket around the water ports. I apply it tho the head side first, plus a couple of dabs in the center of the head and allow it to get tacky, helps keep the gasket from moving when setting the intake on. Then I circle the water ports with RTV. Follow the tightening instructions given earlier (unless I am thinking of another post...again).

If you're using magnum heads and intake, they only take 144 in of torque. Bolts 1 thru 4 (center bolts) start at 12" and then 72". The rest get 72" and then all of them get 144" starting at the center and going out each way.
 
I had a friend who had a problem blowing head gaskets, turn out some dirt had fallen into where the head bolts go and was giving a false torque reading! they now run a tap thru everything once the engine comes back from the hot tank to clean them out!
 
I pulled the intake off. I can see where the water was travelling along the gasket from the coolant port in the front to the front port on the passenger side. The whole gasket was wet right there.

So... I got a new set of gaskets (Fel Pro, this time), used the Permatex High Tack stuff around the water ports front and rear on the heads and will do the same on the intake. Plus use a bunch of RTV around all of the ports to make sure nothings gonna leak from one port to another. Tomorrow....
 
When installing intake gaskets I always make sure heads and intake are "VERY CLEAN" I smear a real thin coat of RED silicone on the head area and install the gaskets,then I build up the ends with RTV silicone only no gaskets and let that set about 10 to 15 minutes.Then I smear a thin coat of "RED" silicone on the intake and set it down on the engine and start all the bolts.
I snug the bolts down just enough to seat the intake and then I let it set another 10 to 15 minutes.Then I torque the intake down tight.KNOCK ON WOOD by using this method I have never had a problem.But I also "ALWAYS" use FELPRO blue GASKETS and this has worked for many many years on all my engines,chevy,mopar etc. I have had people say silicone is a gasket and if you use it don't use gaskets there is no need! I have had people tell me by using that method it will leak!.All I can say is it has worked well for me for years and I continue to do it that way. I don't like fixing what ain't broke!
 
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