couple R-154 swap questions

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CUDAGUY

CUDAGUY

aka Prince Valiant
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
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Location
Portland,OR
Picked up an r-154 the other day for CHEAP and I know I need an AX-15 bellhousing for a 3.9/5.2 dakota and I got the front part of the supra driveshaft with the shifter. Questions are...

what flywheel/pressure plate should I use?
what disc should I use?
what kind of speedo pickup should I use? will a mopar cable work?
what is the dia/length of the pilot snout? (how I got it cheap)

its not going in an A-body though...heck not even a mopar!8)
 
Wow that thing will bolt up to a dakota bell housing? Thats very awesome! Im really interested in your project. Sorry i cant be of any help though with your questions.
 
i'll have to keep an eye on this one ,as i am installing a 2.4 srt-4 engine and r154 trans in the valiant .. i know you will have to change the front bearing retainer to a ax15 one( the ax15 is longer) and machine some type of bushing/adapter for the supra pilot bearing
spec should be able to help you out on the clutch.
 
I have SPEC part #'s for the clutch (2.0/2.4 stuff too, its what I was gonna do first, 2.0 DOHC with SRT Turbofold) but was unaware of the retainer. I will have to see if you cant get the bellhousings new anymore....if they have that then the probly can get me a retainer as well.

I still have not seen what people are using for a speedo cable....
 
the bellhousing is no longer availble i tryed ..even ran a part search with none avail. ended up buying a whole trans from a junkyard because they wouldn't take the bellhoising off for me .. but i got lucky there bought the trans for a hundo and took the bell off then sold it on craigslist for 350 Lol almost paid for my r154 i haven't had a chance to see if the mopar spedo cable will thread on the r154 i figured worst case i would do a elec speedo since i am pretty sure they have an elec pickup for the r154 but i'm a long way from driving mine Lol do you need a srt turbofold? i have a very nice one from my enging only had 30k on it i plan on upgrading the turbo on mine
 
Should have thought of the Moparts thread first. Lot's of info, and he has been running his car for a year now.

Link
 
Buschi340 said:
Yeah, car is running great. Absolutely no problems.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear it. Mine never got off the ground due to the re-acquisition of my old '74 Duster 360. I could still see it end up behind the 360 in my Duster, but I have to get over cutting on an original 4 speed car. Now that I finally have the motor noise solved, when I get it up and running again maybe I will enjoy driving it enough to overlook the lower production numbers and 5 speed it.

BTW, my screen name on Moparts is 48Heap (in case you didn't make the connection).
 
DionR said:
Glad to hear it. Mine never got off the ground due to the re-acquisition of my old '74 Duster 360. I could still see it end up behind the 360 in my Duster, but I have to get over cutting on an original 4 speed car. Now that I finally have the motor noise solved, when I get it up and running again maybe I will enjoy driving it enough to overlook the lower production numbers and 5 speed it.

BTW, my screen name on Moparts is 48Heap (in case you didn't make the connection).
Click to expand...

Hi, my next step will be the 6.1 HEMI. Do you think the Supra Tranny can stand it? It's some more HP & Torque than the 340 has...
 
The only weak link that I am aware of in the R154 is the thrust washer. Google "R154 thrust washer", you should find several links that will show you what goes wrong.

I am convinced that since the bearings on the mainshaft are not preloaded and there is clearance for the gears to move, when the clearance get's bigger due to wear, and the clutch is dumped, first gear hammers the thust washer and shatters it. But, that is just my theory. So, I think that if the tranni clearances are kept tight, and you don't do any high rpm clutch dumps, I thing it should live for a long time. I would run it in a heart beat.

The 6.1 is just too sweet. If I had the cash, I would do the exact same thing.
 
DionR said:
The only weak link that I am aware of in the R154 is the thrust washer. Google "R154 thrust washer", you should find several links that will show you what goes wrong.

I am convinced that since the bearings on the mainshaft are not preloaded and there is clearance for the gears to move, when the clearance get's bigger due to wear, and the clutch is dumped, first gear hammers the thust washer and shatters it. But, that is just my theory. So, I think that if the tranni clearances are kept tight, and you don't do any high rpm clutch dumps, I thing it should live for a long time. I would run it in a heart beat.

The 6.1 is just too sweet. If I had the cash, I would do the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

Why did I want this hear? LOL

Yeah, I know the page. I'm not really sure what it means at all but I think I will 1 or 2 spare Trannies for testing (replacing if explodes LOL ) They are not that expensive hear.

I just have to make a decision between the Supra 5speed and the original Charger 6speed auto which comes with the Hemi.... ;-)
 
DionR said:
The only weak link that I am aware of in the R154 is the thrust washer. Google "R154 thrust washer", you should find several links that will show you what goes wrong.

I am convinced that since the bearings on the mainshaft are not preloaded and there is clearance for the gears to move, when the clearance get's bigger due to wear, and the clutch is dumped, first gear hammers the thust washer and shatters it. But, that is just my theory. So, I think that if the tranni clearances are kept tight, and you don't do any high rpm clutch dumps, I thing it should live for a long time. I would run it in a heart beat.

The 6.1 is just too sweet. If I had the cash, I would do the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

Is this a common problem? I used to race at the speedway in Vegas and I knew a guy making 850 hp 784 ft. lbs. in a supra,he would dump the clutch at 3800 rpm off the line.He said it was a stock trans.
 
Grinder said:
Is this a common problem? I used to race at the speedway in Vegas and I knew a guy making 850 hp 784 ft. lbs. in a supra,he would dump the clutch at 3800 rpm off the line.He said it was a stock trans.
Click to expand...
really??? But a different clutch which can be my next problem. There is only a cheap conversion plate available.... no performance plate....
 
the guy I got mine from is a good friend and is pushing 550hp through one....for a drift car, on and off the gas/clutch alot it seems to take it as well as the one in his cressida DD
 
vitamindart said:
the bellhousing is no longer availble i tryed ..even ran a part search with none avail. ended up buying a whole trans from a junkyard because they wouldn't take the bellhoising off for me .. but i got lucky there bought the trans for a hundo and took the bell off then sold it on craigslist for 350 Lol almost paid for my r154 i haven't had a chance to see if the mopar spedo cable will thread on the r154 i figured worst case i would do a elec speedo since i am pretty sure they have an elec pickup for the r154 but i'm a long way from driving mine Lol do you need a srt turbofold? i have a very nice one from my enging only had 30k on it i plan on upgrading the turbo on mine
Click to expand...

dont NEED one, Ive got a buddy at a dealership that gave me one for free off a PT/GT with 22k (warranty engine, something about a camfollower getting chucked) with the oil/coolant lines....just no o2 housing, no biggie, ebay stainless one is only $40 and 3":cheers:
 
Grinder said:
Is this a common problem? I used to race at the speedway in Vegas and I knew a guy making 850 hp 784 ft. lbs. in a supra,he would dump the clutch at 3800 rpm off the line.He said it was a stock trans.
Click to expand...

Not sure if it is common, but sure seems to be a hot topic on the Supra forums.

Just to make sure, this the the 5 speed, not the later 6 speed that came in the twin turbo Supras. That tranni is completely different.
 
Ya it was a 5 speed.I dont read the supra forums.This was the first time I have heard of that,definitl something to keep in mind!
 
Grinder said:
Ya it was a 5 speed.
Click to expand...

Ok, just checking.

FWIW, when I was looking for 5 speed options, I did some research on the W58's in the earlier Supras and found that they should be good to 400 hp or so. I would have gone that direction, but the input shaft was too short to make it work well.

So, if the W58 is ok at 400 hp, I can believe the R154 would stand up to much more as it is physically a beefier assembly.
 
'nother question....
anyone know where to get rebuild parts for these, the input shaft in particular? someone ground off the pilot bushing nub:munky2:

any billet input shafts available?
 
The 5-speed swap is getting more popular in many circles.
Here is some additional info to consider.

Input shafts lengths vary.

Pre 1995 R150\R151 = 6.5"
1996 up Toyota R series = 7.5"
AX15 = 7.875"
87-92 Turbo Supra R154 = 7.25"
AR5 = 8.2"
MA5 = 8.2"
NV3550 = 7.875"
NV1500 = 8.6"
AX5 = 7.5"
Toyota W series = 6.5"
Toyota G series = 6.5"


Since the R150 has a shorter input shaft than the Dak ax15 then a special pilot can provide the proper support. Then, does the R series mount to the Dak bell?

The Jeep/Dodge AX15 5-speed, the Jeep NV3550 5-speed, the Jeep NV1500, the Toyota R150F, R151F & R155F, the 87-92 Toyota Supra Turbo R154, the Isuzu AR5 and the Pontiac Solstice\Saturn Sky\Chevy Colorado\ GMC Canyon MA5 5-speeds all share the same case to bellhousing bolt pattern (Large Pattern). As such there are a number of possibilities that can be had when a 5-speed is desired:

If you are building a street rod then the NV series can be used, they are not so popular with the folks swapping into stock body cars.
If the NV1500 or NV3500, as used with one of the engines first listed above, is available then it can be used, trans and bell, and the same flywheel notes apply as for the Dak ax15. If the NV comes from a Jeep inline 6 or the Mopar 4-cyl then a Dak bell will be needed but the issue then goes back to the shaft length that was used and what will be required to accomodate the trans in the swap.
Since the NV1500 has a longer shaft than the ax15 we would need to consider where the splines are located in relationship to the clutch disc. Actually, if any of the trans and bells are swapped around the spline location must be checked. We can support a 'short' shaft and we can shorten a 'long' shaft but the splines are not moving.

Here is another link with more application info:
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/manual_transmission_overhaul_kits/dodge.html

And, the Jeep forum:
http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=4740

Also, consider the Getrag 238 6-speed as used in the Dakotas and Ram1500 '05 thru '08 or so. This is a very stout trans.

.
 
is the bellhousing/block pattern the same from 3.7/4.7 to small block? because I can pick those things up here for cheap!
 
CUDAGUY said:
is the bellhousing/block pattern the same from 3.7/4.7 to small block? because I can pick those things up here for cheap!
Click to expand...

How cheap??
3.7, 3.9, 4.7, 5.2, 5.7, 5.9 all have the same block pattern. If you have access to bells for the AX15 trans I would be interested...
1-888-Hemi-Parts

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