Crazy idea for 318

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To help settle the Stroker/non-Stroker argument; IF I can do this build and beat him without doing a stroker that is what I want to do. IF not then I will do the stroker. I talked with him and picked his brain without getting to specific tonight so he has no clue what my ideas/intentions are. He has a stroked 360 to make the 408. 442 HP with 510 Torque at the rear wheels. It was a crate motor so he has all the specs but I couldn't say tell them all to me so that I can out do you. He will be weighing his car this Friday but I am positive that it weighs more than my Dart. Since he still has front and rear glass. He does have a fiberglass hood however but that won't make up the difference. He has OEM wiring in it with steel fuel and trans cooler lines too. He also has a full size 8-3/4 with the springs outside the frame. Mine is shortened and moved under the frame. So chassis wise I should be less weight then he is. I also toyed with doing a tube k-member instead of the old steel one. I know that would help weight wise also. Other than that I am pretty much done with the diet for mine other than glass hood and deck lid. So I gotta pick it up under the hood. OH, he is running a 904 and I have a 727 too.
 
yah, I know the 904/727 issue. It will be interesting as he will weigh his car this weekend and I am anxious to see how much difference there is between them right now. I think I am a little less even though he seems to think differently.
 
I say fake him out. Make like you're building a 318 and sling a moderate 451 in it then go smoke his ***.
 
Most of the advice here is really good. I'd try to make my car even lighter though. It will take quite a bit of rpm to beat his low end torque. You need lots of gear and converter. The 904 is what you need. That is worth a couple of tenths alone due to weight. It takes closer to 50hp to turn the 727 as to where the 904 takes roughly 25. It can be done and any combo you build will be expensive; so go for it-- if it makes you happy!
 
LOL. This isn't JUST an I can beat you challenge. If it were I would just have stuck to my original plan and gone with a blown 440 like I was planning. It is more of you can't do it challenge. We spent 10 days together talking and hanging out. He laughed at me when I told him that I was going to do a build to beat him. So not only do I want to make him eat his words; they need to be without Ketchup and a tad salty by doing it with a 318. Does any of this help explain my notions?

So, IF this is possible, and it sounds like it is, I just need some specific part numbers or specs so that I can start saving for them to purchase them. UNLESS, I can get my girlfriend to sponsor me. LOL
 
I admire you sticking to your guns and the challenge that awaits you.
Your going to have to do a lot of leg work here. Lets start with the base of all operations, the foundation of HP, the block.

At what bore size is it?
What is the deck height?
Is the block ready to go?

Now you'll need to figure out, what rods your going to use and what length they are coupled with a piston for this project to be used with what heads?

If there is a question on what head to use, I suggest a look around the net at the above and previous pages mention of 318's running in there classes to see what equipment they use.

There is absolutely no same in a copy cat engine. It is a high form of flattery to the team/person using it and a short cut to getting there while saving tons-o-money and time.

IF your good with computers and programs, you can, in theory map out the parts for this endeavor. Between a decent dyno sim and then car drag racing chassis sim to predict the cars E.T. & mph, you can accelerate this build.


In my first post, I listed parts directly from the old MoPar speed tips section that lists the parts needed to run the time.

MoPar used to provide these tips in every parts catalog in bracketed times starting with 14 seconds and working there way down to the 8.90 class bracket in 1/2 increments with all the parts listed. But not all the work done. (For a rookie or novice, there's a lot of reading between the lines. most of for which is covered in the engines book)

Would you like a copy of these tips?
 
Come on now Mad, stop acting up and out. Just help out.
 
I personally would go with some W2 heads. Didn't they make them with closed chambers also? I am sure you can find some good ones for a decent price. I have some magnum JY heads but there are still restrictions in the intake ports that are not so prominant on the W2's. Since you will need to spin this thing pretty high you will need volume.
 
Yes, they did. Currently (If there still being made and in stock, ya never know with MoPar these days)
They offer a closed chamber W2 at 55 cc IIRC of approx 1300 a pair, fully assembled.
Yes, this gives Edelbrock a run for there money once people realize this.
The one cave eat to the W2 heads are the cost of offset rockers, IF you can find them. Once in a while, there not available from various manufactures.

Also, as of late, I can not find a econo head. This means you have to get the rocker stands and set them up in there height, should the OOTB stands not be the proper height.

Ecno heads in a assembled form for about $600 or so each would be a mad, MAD seller.
 
318, 4 inch forged crank and custom 12.5 stroker pistons. Serious bottom end, and serious revs. Wx series heads, 4500 stall, 5.xx gears, 1 3/4 headers, 1050 Thermoquad, 2800 lbs..If you can hook it, go for it!
 
from the mopar performance catalog

B. Cylinder Heads, Cast Iron, W2 Race
Features flat-machined rocker pads that require the use of T&D Race Rocker
Arms and long valves. Heads must be oiled through the tappets and hollow
pushrods. Older style rocker stands and rocker systems do not work with these
heads.
1 P5007708AB Cylinder Head, Cast Iron, Race, 2.02" Intake, 1.60" Exhaust,
48° Tappet, 47cc Chamber, W2
1 P5007445AB Cylinder Head, Cast Iron, Race, 2.02" Intake, 1.60" Exhaust,
48° Tappet, 65 cc Chamber, W2
1 P5249769 Cylinder Head, Cast Iron, Race, 2.02" Intake, 1.60" Exhaust,
59° Tappet, 65cc Chamber, W2

Dont see anything assemble for sale.....dont see any econo heads for sale...

Current heads available from mopar require T&D rockers ($$$$$$)

If you know where they sell for 1300 a set assembled or the econo sell for 650 assembled....post a link...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-5249769/
650 bare from summit,,,,,,,,,,,
 
I was just looking at Mopar.com in the catalog. I couldn't find them either. I swear, this company is on a self destruct course. Non competitive, short on products, discontinue anything decent, can't sell anything a ta decent price unless it is out going...good grief!!!!

Lets see if that works.
http://www.mopar.com/assets/pdf/performance/catalog/Small_Block.pdf
 
Put in an old part number at Jegs. They have stuff sitting sometimes. Also, take the part number to a dealer and they will put it into a parts locator that is nation wide. IF another dealer has the part on the shelf sitting, for whatever reason, your dealer can get the part from them.
 
A friend of mine and I were discussing this. I currently have a pair of STOCK casting 302 swirl port heads on the car. He suggested just putting 2.02/1.60 valves in it and doing rocker stand mods to accommodate what ever is necessary to use them as they are supposed to have good flow. Thoughts? Opinions?
 
Can I go with a .60 over bore or will that make things to weak for what I am trying? Or should I plan on a .40?
 
302 castings? Off a 318? Well, IMO, at this level, your going to need at least a super well ported 340/360 head. 302 heads are know to port out to 240 or so and some plus cfm. While the head will have a lot of great things going for it, I really think your going to need to move some air, something the 302 is not up to doing.

There an excellent head for the street and mild drag racing, there fine. But there comes a time to step up and this is seriously truly it.
 
Here is another question to go with my last about over bore. The block that I was thinking about using for this is an 84 318 with a roller cam in it. Will that make a difference as to what I do? Do I need to find an older casting block before even doing ANYTHING else?
 
Less overbore is better for stronger cylinder walls, less flex. To now just how far you can go, sonic check the block.

I'd stay with the roller block just in case you can afford a roller cam. A roller drag cam should be better than a solid, though there are some seriously stout solid cams out there. Look at the "Drag Race" solid cams.
 
Well the block sounds like it will okay then as long as it can be bored out. That makes me feel a little better. I would like to stay with a roller cam if possible for the RPM possibilities. I will explore the head options out there. I should be able to come up with a pair of 360 heads maybe even magnums fairly easily for cheap.
 
If you are seriously talking about a 302 casting head, then you are proving you have no idea what your getting into. Like I said way before, 400 hp at the crank IS NOT GONNA GET YOU to the time bracket your looking for..YOU decided you wanna use a 318 CI based engine, thats gonna take airflow and RPM. A 302 head is a joke at this level...
 
I hate to tear down this engine and leave myself with nothing in case I cannot get it done financially by spring. I might need to find another block to build on.
 
IMO, I really do not think the OE heads of any casting style are going to cut it, but, if your willing to try, please do so report back on how they do.

I have to words for any attempt on a OE head... MAX PORTING
Need 2 more? BIG VALVES
 
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