Critique my Suspension plan

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Hoogs69dart

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Ok I have a 69 dart swinger and at first I was going to just get the hotchkis tvs kit. But I do not like the idea of a 1"drop leafs and heim joints on the uper control arms. This will be a street pounder and will never see any auto cross, but might see 1 day at the drag strip just to see what she runs. Planning on a 392 stroker (you cannot talk me out of it ) ok so far this is what I have come up with. I do not like lowered cars so stock hight maybe a little higher.

Torsion bars
Pst 1.03 torsion bar polygraphite

Leaf springs
Add leaf and recurve

Upper control arms
Qa1

Sway bars
Pst front and rear kits

Shocks
RCD bilsteine. Or
Qa1 adjustable

Strut rods
Pst adjustable

Pst lower control arm rebuild kit
With greaseable pivots

Firm feel k memeber stiffner kit.

Spring relocation kit. (Not sure I need just figured I better add it and not need it)

Pst solid steel steering adjuster

Anything you would change any why. I would like to get rid of the tie rod ends and run something stronger with less play. Heim joints seem ok but without a tapered end to bolt on the wheel side I don't trust it. I thought I had seen something last week that would have been perfect but I can't remember where I seen them.
 
Nothing wrong with the plan, except maybe the cost. If you can't run big tires, it seems to me that you are or might be spending a lot more money than you need to.
I built a nice street pounder with just the 1.03s, extra rear leaf, front bar only, and Hd shocks. The rest of the front end is stock parts,except poly and Moog offset UCA bushings,with a well worked out alignment. My car is lowered some.
 
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Dont waste your time adding a leaf or re arcing. The setup you've outlined would swap ends pretty fast in a hard turn. First I'd suggest my steel leaf springs which are a close to zero arc, correct rate spring. Second, either pony up for a bigger t bar or lose the rear bar. Get as close to or the same size tires front and rear. These cars do weird things with mismatched tires. Most like the look of big/little and I get it, but that combined with high ride height really takes its toll on performance at speed.
 
Good call on tire size. I had changed them to the taller 50, but forgot to find the right size for the front. So what would be the best size for the front ? I am OK with a bigger bar setup. I don't mind something like the Hotchkiss front and rear bars. Just didn't know if it was necessary. And can you tell me more about how the rear leafs and where to get them.
 
First things first. What have you done to stiffen the chassis? Installing a complete chassis stiffening kit like the one US Cartool sells and making sure any corrosion in critical areas is repaired is a reasonably good start. A full roll cage is even better. You can also fab up your own Monte Carlo bar to help reduce cowl shake and flex too.

Once you have a nice stiff chassis, then build your suspension. I don't like cars that are too low either, as I drive mine on the open road and like having some ground clearance. There are very few people out there that can keep up with my old A-Body on the open road. There are plenty of cars out there that should be able to blow me away, but from my experience, most people that own those cars can't drive them.

IMG_1005 (Large).JPG
 
jbc426 said:
First things first. What have you done to stiffen the chassis? Installing a complete chassis stiffening kit like the one US Cartool sells and making sure any corrosion in critical areas is repaired is a reasonably good start. A full roll cage is even better. You can also fab up your own Monte Carlo bar to help reduce cowl shake and flex too.

Once you have a nice stiff chassis, then build your suspension. I don't like cars that are too low either, as I drive mine on the open road and like having some ground clearance. There are very few people out there that can keep up with my old A-Body on the open road. There are plenty of cars out there that should be able to blow me away, but from my experience, most people that own those cars can't drive them.

Also, as stated, matched low profile tires are critical if you want to spend time on a track.

View attachment 1714958233
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i don't like add a leafs. new springs aren't a ton of money. just replace them..
QA1 upper arms? i'd go RMS or even the ones (more expensive) gmachine sells..

you want pst strut rods which are RMS units with pst decals so ya may as well use RMS upper arms too..:)

RMS also sells a real nice spring relocation kit...
 
Hoogs69dart said:
Good call on tire size. I had changed them to the taller 50, but forgot to find the right size for the front. So what would be the best size for the front ? I am OK with a bigger bar setup. I don't mind something like the Hotchkiss front and rear bars. Just didn't know if it was necessary. And can you tell me more about how the rear leafs and where to get them.
Click to expand...

this is petes(gmachine) shop.. Bergman Auto Craft - Home of the Modern Muscle Car

i have his rear spring on jamies dart.. nice parts..
 
GMachineDartGT said:
Dont waste your time adding a leaf or re arcing. The setup you've outlined would swap ends pretty fast in a hard turn. First I'd suggest my steel leaf springs which are a close to zero arc, correct rate spring. Second, either pony up for a bigger t bar or lose the rear bar. Get as close to or the same size tires front and rear. These cars do weird things with mismatched tires. Most like the look of big/little and I get it, but that combined with high ride height really takes its toll on performance at speed.
Click to expand...

No rear sway bar?
 
Yes I plan on using the US car tool kit to stiffen the car. The car has rust but I am starting tech school on the 22nd for auto body and collision so that's not going to be an issue. It will be a full Rotisserie. Plan on doing a you tube video every week as I go. She needs rockers, quarter, rear wheel well. Floor patches, and front fenders/patches, but the trunk is great. Only need wheel wells cause some jerk cut the fenders to fit bigger tires.
 
Ok so what would be the best front tire to match the rear. I have drove lifted trucks my whole life so a 35x12.50 is normal to me.

And thanks for letting me know about rms and pst being the same. I herd pst was rebranded but wasn't sure by who.
 
The heims will wear out. I know first hand.

Just run stock 11/16 c-body tie rods with solid adjusters. Plenty strong unless you plan in running the Baja 1000. Have you ever felt play in a new set of stock tie rods? After 12K miles?

If you want to see play, look at my heims after 12k miles.

If you really want to spend money, look at the Howe greasable low friction tie rods. Overkill for what your intentions are.

On the lack of tapered end with a heim... There is an adapter bolt with a taper on one end to go into your steering arm.

00997479_0.jpg
 
I do not like heim joints. I am ok with tie rods if they are the best choice. But i have broke a few. One just driving on a smooth trail at 15mph, And a few off road. You can throw ball joints in on that too.

And I have never drove the car. It has been sitting since 1992. And has no engine. So she will go on the chopping block this winter once I move and get my shop.
 
Hoogs69dart said:
Ok so what would be the best front tire to match the rear. I have drove lifted trucks my whole life so a 35x12.50 is normal to me.

And thanks for letting me know about rms and pst being the same. I herd pst was rebranded but wasn't sure by who.
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The widest you can fit.

A 245/40/17 with 5.25 backspace will fit.

Is the car painted and you don't want to modify the wheel lips/openings?

If not....

Lip the top of the front fender lip, cut/fold a 1.5" wide x 3" tall pie slice out of the bottom front fender lip. Then use the lower fender support brace adjuster to hold the bottom of the fender out. Also, if you fender has upper fender braces, move them out as much as possible....

With all that, you can run 275/40/17 tire up front with 17x9 rim with 5.25 to 5.5" backspacing.

Then you'd have the same size tires front and rear.
 
Hoogs69dart said:
I do not like heim joints. I am ok with tie rods if they are the best choice. But i have broke a few. One just driving on a smooth trail at 15mph, And a few off road. You can throw ball joints in on that too.

And I have never drove the car. It has been sitting since 1992. And has no engine. So she will go on the chopping block this winter once I move and get my shop.
Click to expand...

I bent the center (not the lip) of a steel rally rim going off track in my barracuda once when it had stock cbody tie rods. No problem to the moog tie rods.
 
autoxcuda said:
The widest you can fit.

A 245/40/17 with 5.25 backspace will fit.

Is the car painted and you don't want to modify the wheel lips/openings?

If not....

Lip the top of the front fender lip, cut/fold a 1.5" wide x 3" tall pie slice out of the bottom front fender lip. Then use the lower fender support brace adjuster to hold the bottom of the fender out. Also, if you fender has upper fender braces, move them out as much as possible....

With all that, you can run 275/40/17 tire up front with 17x9 rim with 5.25 to 5.5" backspacing.

Then you'd have the same size tires front and rear.
Click to expand...

I have not started on it yet. Just trying to plan everything or as much as I can before I start, and start school. I'm not sure how much time to research once I start it might not be bad if I wasn't moving this winter And I want to have a plan and follow it.

I'm OK with trimming the fenders to fit a wider front tire and running all 4 the same size. It would be nice to rotate them the right way. How much difference in handle and traction going with a 275 vs a 255?

autoxcuda said:
I bent the center (not the lip) of a steel rally rim going off track in my barracuda once when it had stock cbody tie rods. No problem to the moog tie rods.
Click to expand...

I have never had any issues with Moog ball joints and tie rods. But I have only been running them on my 2002 Dakota for 3 years now. And like them so far. And all the ones I broke where on bigger trucks I beat the snot out of.
 
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