..........My 470 stroker will idle at 900 all day long, has a .625 lift roller cam, 750 AED holley, no it doesn't like pump gas unless its mixed 50/50 with 110 3300lb car runs 10.40 all day long.....kim......ofcourse it has the appropriate safety equipment
Curious
- Thread starter cuda620
- Start date
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Cuda620, I think your in the same position as me right now. I love Mopars. I think they are the best looking cars ever built. Their styling department was the best hands down, but their engineering department has been behind for 100yrs. It's always been an uphill battle being a Mopar lover, especially now. Nothing would make me happier than stuffing a Chrysler plant under the hood. Here is where my experience has left me in the decision making process.
Times have changed. To me building any car without an overdrive trans is retarded today. If you aren't doing 80 on the highway you are a hazard. Nothing burns my *** more than seeing muscle cars holding up traffic turning 3500rpm in the right lane. That's strike one against Chrysler. Even most "Mopar or no car" guys are loosing their hate for GM transmissions. GM has made the best transmissions for basically the entire history of automobiles. To do a GM trans/Chrysler motor figure about a grand for adapters ect.
On to engines now. The slant 6. I love the goofy thing. If their was anyway possible to make one sound cool I would go that route and still may. It's probably the strongest platform they've ever built, and the weird factor is of the charts.
LA/Magnums. I like this engine in it's stock form. The Rube Goldberg crap drives me nuts when you hop them up though. Building the short block is straight forward and affordable, it's the top end that is a pain in the ***. To get heads that flow over 300 your gonna pay @$3000. Now add $2000 in valve train parts. So now we've got$5000 in the top end and nothing works. Bust out the Dremel and cut oiling grooves, add shims, etc. Are you kidding me? This thing has been around 60yrs! Nobody's figured it out yet? I've got a 318 LA roller motor at my shop. If I can figure out a reliable valve train I may do a 390 stroker.
B/RB. This thing has the trifecta of Chrysler engineering flaws. Weak block, crap oiling, and bad valve train geometry. I can remember 440 smog motors rated at less than 200hp pounding the cranks out from block flex. After talking to the experts in BBM short blocks they confirmed my experience. Even a fully prepared 400 block is on borrowed time at 600hp.
Gen3 Hemi. I've owned over 20 of these pieces of garbage. I've had them in my work trucks and personal vehicles. Never again. They finally figured out how to make a block that doesn't break, but again they hung their hat on poor oiling and horrible valve train geometry. Every one I've opened up had piston damage. There is obviously something in the design that invites detonation. Also every one had badly scored cylinders and bearings. My wife's 3rd Challenger lives in bay 1 of my garage awaiting a lawsuit. We payed the extra$3000 for the lifetime warranty and they won't cover it. It's been through 2 sets of heads, 3 cams, 48 lifters, 32 pushrods, and 32 rockers. Still sounds like a deisel powered sewing machine and a minivan could kick it's ***!
Also I believe that your idea of reliability is more in tune with mine. Being able to drive it to the local tasty freeze and show it off to the local geriatric patients isn't my idea of reliability.
So that's where I'm at in my decision making process... Good luck on yours!
Times have changed. To me building any car without an overdrive trans is retarded today. If you aren't doing 80 on the highway you are a hazard. Nothing burns my *** more than seeing muscle cars holding up traffic turning 3500rpm in the right lane. That's strike one against Chrysler. Even most "Mopar or no car" guys are loosing their hate for GM transmissions. GM has made the best transmissions for basically the entire history of automobiles. To do a GM trans/Chrysler motor figure about a grand for adapters ect.
On to engines now. The slant 6. I love the goofy thing. If their was anyway possible to make one sound cool I would go that route and still may. It's probably the strongest platform they've ever built, and the weird factor is of the charts.
LA/Magnums. I like this engine in it's stock form. The Rube Goldberg crap drives me nuts when you hop them up though. Building the short block is straight forward and affordable, it's the top end that is a pain in the ***. To get heads that flow over 300 your gonna pay @$3000. Now add $2000 in valve train parts. So now we've got$5000 in the top end and nothing works. Bust out the Dremel and cut oiling grooves, add shims, etc. Are you kidding me? This thing has been around 60yrs! Nobody's figured it out yet? I've got a 318 LA roller motor at my shop. If I can figure out a reliable valve train I may do a 390 stroker.
B/RB. This thing has the trifecta of Chrysler engineering flaws. Weak block, crap oiling, and bad valve train geometry. I can remember 440 smog motors rated at less than 200hp pounding the cranks out from block flex. After talking to the experts in BBM short blocks they confirmed my experience. Even a fully prepared 400 block is on borrowed time at 600hp.
Gen3 Hemi. I've owned over 20 of these pieces of garbage. I've had them in my work trucks and personal vehicles. Never again. They finally figured out how to make a block that doesn't break, but again they hung their hat on poor oiling and horrible valve train geometry. Every one I've opened up had piston damage. There is obviously something in the design that invites detonation. Also every one had badly scored cylinders and bearings. My wife's 3rd Challenger lives in bay 1 of my garage awaiting a lawsuit. We payed the extra$3000 for the lifetime warranty and they won't cover it. It's been through 2 sets of heads, 3 cams, 48 lifters, 32 pushrods, and 32 rockers. Still sounds like a deisel powered sewing machine and a minivan could kick it's ***!
Also I believe that your idea of reliability is more in tune with mine. Being able to drive it to the local tasty freeze and show it off to the local geriatric patients isn't my idea of reliability.
So that's where I'm at in my decision making process... Good luck on yours!
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IQ52?Ur no help to me. I said 30 years ago fool. Go to someone to grace with your petty stuff if you want to be that way. I don't want a rattletrap with 4" vacuum that gets 2 mpg. Go play with your low comprehension oh I mean compression,sorry.....
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You did say GMC, right? As in Chevy....
Pascamp,you maybe right. I remember fighting valve train geometry issues in the 70's. Never had block problem with big blocks, but a lot of crank walk even with arp stuff. A lot of bearing issues too. Never messed with the new hemis. Heard enough bout them to avoid em. Don't have the cash to throw at em,and don't want to. I guess I got enough opinions and made some folks mad. I got a well built LS3 on a stand. Makes 600 on paper. I may put it in my A body. Least it'll look good, sound good, run good, with decent mpg. Also won't need my wallet every time it hiccups. Seen some mopar builds with 2004r and700r4 trannys. That is unless I find a mopar way. BTW, thanks. I was lookin hard at a challenger with a hemi and a six speed. All the bling looked nice, glad I didn't take the plunge.
Yeah my wife is a slow learner. 6yrs and almost $140k later she's finally done. Looking at high end mustangs and Camaros now. Also looking at buying old restored muscle and modernizing it. I won't even get into the windows opening themselves in rainstorms or the other BS.
Lol!!! I've heard of Windows not opening,but not that. Was gonna modernize with a new "hemi" but decided not to. Hard to fit into earlier cars to modernize. I can really do an LS cheaper. In a mopar at that. Guess that's what happens when a car company's open to the highest bidder. Who has em now,,, fiat?
Swap was a 92 Z28 with a 305 /700r4. Now LS1/6speed half *** tune and 4:10's. 22 mpg 1800 rpm at 75.
thesiren74
Well-Known Member
Wow i never new so many so called mopar guy's hate mopar's?weird?
moper
Well-Known Member
Who's hating them? Reality is reality. A 50 year old car will cost much more to get equal to a modern day muscle car than to just buy the new car. Time improves technology and technology improves the deliverable.
famous bob
mopar misfit
won`t happen on the gas mileage ! probly not w/ an overdrive ! LoL
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
If you have a 440 that won't blow the doors off an LS you need to do something else. Unreal.
If you need an overdrive, go buy a Hyundai.
We have become a nation of snowflake pussies. I'm embarrassed.
If you need an overdrive, go buy a Hyundai.
We have become a nation of snowflake pussies. I'm embarrassed.
My LS is 585 hp, and gets mileage in the double digits. I drive my 5 toys daily if I'm not on one of my Harley's. Your the Pussy with your trailer queen. I want a mopar that does it all. Not a 4 mpg rattletrap that idles at 10 " vacuum and gotta tune it all the time. BTW, the 585 is easy and the double didgits gets is with a carb and an Msd. I didn't say the 440/nos cuda couldn't out run it ,but that was at .69 cent a gallon premium. Getting ready to start a project and wanted to see if it's possible via mopar. Btw, had a 355 LT1 vega in 1978 and ate trailered bb mopars. Just want to build a better one. Take your trailer queen and your opinions elsewhere. NOW you're embarrassed.
Your first requirements. I gave you a cheap, low compression solution to the existing requirements.
Now you have added a mpg requirement. But I haven't redesigned it for you have I?
Obviously these 440 owners had engines in cars with power to weight ratios that stunk up the road. Who's fault is that? Betcha no one answering this thread.
It can be done. Figure it out. Oh, that's right, you want it given to you.
My son's 2011 R/T Challenger (4,050 lbs and a 5.7) has 621 FWHP and gets 26 mpg cruising. Some of the technology could be applied to a 451 or 440 and get within the range of your (modified from the original post) objectives.
Aero, chassis, compression ratio, cylinder head, piston, camshaft, intake, FI and even carburetor technology has reached the point today where it could be done in an ABody.
Modern engines aren't all that special you add fuel injection roller cams overdrive and superchargers to anything. Yes we'll never have multiple displacement and variable cams.
That leaves heads where new engine shine. They basically come stock with what we would consider racing heads years ago (250-350 cfm).
They use head flow not large cams to make
Power that's why they get good mileage to hp and why aftermarket cams add so much power. We do it opposite with large cams and relatively weak heads. That's why 340 was a great engine its time better heads than the other guys. Thatso why it response so well to cam and headers like modern engines just on a lesser scale imagine if it came stock with W2 or W8 instead of X heads, that's basically how the new hemis and LS engine come.
To the OP you have the weight advantage probably need a 100 less hp to beat whatever Camaro.
440 with the new trick flows should more than do it
P.S. what's with this gas mileage crap the v6 Camaro only gets 18 - 28 not super impressive if you put a little thought and effort in your build you could get similar mileage to hp.
That leaves heads where new engine shine. They basically come stock with what we would consider racing heads years ago (250-350 cfm).
They use head flow not large cams to make
Power that's why they get good mileage to hp and why aftermarket cams add so much power. We do it opposite with large cams and relatively weak heads. That's why 340 was a great engine its time better heads than the other guys. Thatso why it response so well to cam and headers like modern engines just on a lesser scale imagine if it came stock with W2 or W8 instead of X heads, that's basically how the new hemis and LS engine come.
To the OP you have the weight advantage probably need a 100 less hp to beat whatever Camaro.
440 with the new trick flows should more than do it
P.S. what's with this gas mileage crap the v6 Camaro only gets 18 - 28 not super impressive if you put a little thought and effort in your build you could get similar mileage to hp.
A 440 A body won't run 11's and get good mpg. Even with overpriced trickflows. Mopar don't make an overdrive that will fit without cutting up the floor. Gvo? Okay,now we're getting closer. How bout 2:76 gears to help rpms, nope. Get killed outta the hole by a 302 ford. Moparsmopars not user friendly. No easy way to swap a late 392 hemi?? Into an a body. I got a rust free A body that I guess I'll turn into a nova.
The 2012 Camaro SS I saw ran 14.00 flat at 100 mph. I guess they picked up in 2016.
Two things!!!
1st - Don't know what your all talking about, "labor of love"?? I put my stuff together and it runs for years and years....
2nd - When did the 12.40's listed above for the 2016 SS become unbeatable, world class innovation? There are some good drivers in the new 5.0 stang hitting high 11's with basically stock cars. Watched a guy at my local drag strip run 9.20's at 140 mph in a 4 cyl Eagle Talon AWD street car.
Now, whats' it take to beat an LS (or an LZ1) and have all the bells and whistles? How about a 6500 lbs Ram Diesel 4x4 and somebody that knows what they are doing...
10.40's, yep! That will do it!
Two things!!!
1st - Don't know what your all talking about, "labor of love"?? I put my stuff together and it runs for years and years....
2nd - When did the 12.40's listed above for the 2016 SS become unbeatable, world class innovation? There are some good drivers in the new 5.0 stang hitting high 11's with basically stock cars. Watched a guy at my local drag strip run 9.20's at 140 mph in a 4 cyl Eagle Talon AWD street car.
Now, whats' it take to beat an LS (or an LZ1) and have all the bells and whistles? How about a 6500 lbs Ram Diesel 4x4 and somebody that knows what they are doing...
10.40's, yep! That will do it!
Nope not at all. I have 2-440's and a 72 -400 and a low mileage mildly built LS3 that's on a stand waiting for another home. I also have a 69 k mile Rust free A body 318 904 yadayada. Thinking out loud. Trying to figure out what to build.. BTW, you put head studs,3 turbos and better fueling with the associated mods you will outrun a camaro a and still get really good mileage. How do I know,,, I own also a holy grail 98 dodge QCSB with a 12 valve Cummings. Rust free,slightly modded with a banks kit, single bigger, 16 mm turbo and #10 fuel plate, with 5" exhaust.
The 2012 Camaro SS I saw ran 14.00 flat at 100 mph. I guess they picked up in 2016.
Two things!!!
1st - Don't know what your all talking about, "labor of love"?? I put my stuff together and it runs for years and years....
2nd - When did the 12.40's listed above for the 2016 SS become unbeatable, world class innovation? There are some good drivers in the new 5.0 stang hitting high 11's with basically stock cars. Watched a guy at my local drag strip run 9.20's at 140 mph in a 4 cyl Eagle Talon AWD street car.
Now, whats' it take to beat an LS (or an LZ1) and have all the bells and whistles? How about a 6500 lbs Ram Diesel 4x4 and somebody that knows what they are doing...
10.40's, yep! That will do it!
See post above....
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Dude, you need a Honda, a tissue, a hug and some crayons.
What a bunch of pussies.
Funny thing is I never see this LS world beater bullshit.
moper
Well-Known Member
A mopar with an LS for anyone that really likes Mopars is the next biggest "I have no dick" sign besides owning a Corvette. So go for it. Park it next to the Harley.
cuda620 sorry to here about your decision on your ride, I had a AAR Cuda the motor was on a stand and a 68 340 was in the car, standard bore .572 .296 cam, double springs, pocket work, radius valve job, & mechanical 3x2 carbs 1 7/8 hooker race headers. Street driven every day 3.91 gear and yes I had it on a car hauler to go to the track because it had 4.88 and 7"x 29 slicks. The car ran 11.80 at 115 mph, if I had a 6 speed I could have driven it to the track and got better mileage. With 3.91 I got 14 - 16 mpg and had power brakes, never had a vacuum problem that you are talking about, I have been building mopar engines for 30 years and never had the problems you are talking about, It's a uneducated engine builder that causes those problems. I have also worked for Cadillac for 10 years, GM sense 1995 so I know all about ls motors and there development.
You my friend are uneducated in the automotive world and that's just the way it is, nobody can fix you you are an idiot.
You my friend are uneducated in the automotive world and that's just the way it is, nobody can fix you you are an idiot.
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