Cylinder Heads 101

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SO lets do this Mr.moper,I give you BJR number to call him and do your talking to him and he can explain it to you.BJR,1-770-955-0659.If you are a pessemist,then even after a good talk on the phone and facts and figures,you should still not believe any more than you do now,and will not come up with a better theory or show us all a better system.Here is a person trying to help every on this board,for free and is willing to talk to any one he can help for years,at no cost,and because a person has a better mouse trap,people say it can,t be so.If you say there is some thing wrong with the numbers you have post of bobby,s,then say what is wrong and why,then ask bobby how he comes up with the numbers.And when you find out why,and if you believe the numbers,being a truly good person,you would retract your statement and say why,no harm done.For 32 years I have raced in some type of racing,drag racing,roundy/round,forumula atlantic,ice racing,and a few others,but even when you help,spend time for free to explain things in detail to some,and even offer to your expertise to them,ther is just no pleasing some.Mrmopartech
 
MRmopar..I did exactly what you said. I had a nice conversation with him. I wish we were closer, and as I told him, I'd be hanging out there more often. He and I were "on the same page" so to speak. It seems the problem was was your feelings, not his, or mine. I freely admit, he's years ahead of me, and obviously, if he's doing it for a living, he's good at something. I dont do it for my living. I do it for the fun of it. I happen to be fairly decent at it, but that doesnt mean there's not thousands of guys better than I doing it too. BJR posted some results that I found to be what I'd call "out of the norm". Even higher than the upper end of "the norm". Any claim is subject to criticism. He understands this. So do I. Sorry you seem to take my questioning as an attack. Data is Data. Nothing personal about it. So I'd suggest we take his info for what it's worth. It's free advice, and as I tried to point out "Your results may vary". I will be speaking more with him as time allows. My shop just got thier own SF bench, Up 'til recently, I'd have to rent time thru a second party, which doesnt lend itself to the tinkerring that BJR likes to do, and I wish i could do. I will be "testing" his ideas. Not becuase he's a liar, or I'm jerk, but because he says they work, and i want to see how it can help me and my customers. It's called progress. If you accept everything as a truth, you'll be disappointed more than if you question it. Maybe some day you can drive down to Atlanta, pick me up on the way, and we can fight the whole way down, then both buy him a beer..lol.
 
bjr racing: are those flownumbers for the comando heads the bigport heads or the standard port heads?
great information!!!!
 
They are for the large 190 cc heads(large port). Those #s were achieved with a good bowl blending and a gasket match, and a racing valve job.

BJR Racing
 
Maybe some day you can drive down to Atlanta, pick me up on the way, and we can fight the whole way down, then both buy him a beer..lol.[/QUOTE]



OK, If it's cold the bring a hockey sticks and the puck, if it's hot bring the boxing gloves. :thumblef: I have the beer in the cooler ....................this should be interesting.




BJR Racing
 
BJR Racing where are you located exactly.....i looked at your name from your post and didn't see your location.....just wondering if you are close to me.
 
Marietta,Ga just north of Atlanta


Shipping address
231 Shadowlawn Rd.
Marietta,Ga. 30067


Mailing Address
P.O.Box 680682
marietta,Ga. 30068


BJR Racing
 
LOL, have "Kin" (as you all say) there.
 
Rumblefish360, If you have kin here then whats the problem with you gettin here?
Look forward to seeing you in the future.
I've been thinking about what 7demon2 has said about all the engines in general and posting some combos for them, but what I was considering is grouping them into 6 cyl., small blocks, and big blocks for streetable combos. and then give the differences in all cases, but the CI being the difference and the appropirate steps to do. Keeping in mind that the engine has to run on what they call pump gas 87-93.
What does everyone think? Looking for comments.


BJR Racing
 
Bobby,I think this would be a great idea and would benefit every one at all different levels of knowledge and performance level.I guess my phone bills are going to get allot large this week,Mrmopartech
 
I'll be in the area this mid week to weekend. Picking up a Cuda Tail panel in TN. While I have my best freind in Lawrencville Ga. Theres a spare room there for me. Need to get to Marita (sp?) to see a cousin as well.

I snapped some shots tonight of intakes, heads and the 360 short block on my stand for the article coming. Still need a few shots and then disassemble the 318 a tad for the readers here. I want to swing that one into the Duster.

My weekend was a total disater for this project. Still doing weekend chores on my Tuesday. More picture taking tomorrow.

And yes, some engine builds would be good. Like I said before, to bad I do not have a dyno. The best I could possibly muster is E-town for time slips when it opens.
 
You idea of posting some "true" builds with the true numbers that go along with them along with an estimated cost to build would be very helpfull to a lot of us who may be just getting into the performance aspect.

Your comments and info on flow numbers while sticking with the smaller valves is most interesting - a little late in my case, but there is always the next time - and there will be I'm sure.
 
Bobby I think your idea on posting some real-world engine builds is a great one. A lot of people, especially those new to the sport, have a tendency to overbuild their motors, going with the "bigger is better" idea, which we know is rarely true. Big numbers may work great on the strip, but the majority of people need to build their street cars for the street, and are really disappointed when they end up with a motor that doesn't even start to breath before 3000+ RPM.
 
I think the cost of the builds would be good only to a point of what you have to start with and what it needs. What parts you have or not. The area of the country you live in on machinest costs as well as the place you have your work done can vary much.
I believe a general cost figure would do better. Trust me, I know theres a screw ball here or two thats gonna complain when the get there bill and only point to this site.
I myself plan on doing some simple mods on the 318 and run to the track a couple of times.
 
Maybe it would be best to not price the parts or the work and just put up what to put in the engines and let the cost fall where it may, as everyone will have different ways to go about it.
It's the parts and machine work that makes the engines run anyway, so this is one way to stay out of trouble. Then if some have parts now, then they will be able to see what they will have to buy later. I think that it may be best to just list parts that work together.


BJR Racing
 
i think the priceing would be O.K. if it is only used as a guideline. the results and how to's are what i'm looking for. i have never done anything with a mopar before and would like to see some real world builds w/ results. thanks BJR!
 
Bobby,
Thanks for the information, this kind of thread is just the reason I like to visit this forum.
I hope to put into practise some of what you have offered in this thread and from our off forum dialogue.

Regards,
Steve.
 
"Absolutely Fantastic" BJR Ive Have Heard of this stuff Before,But it Still Amazing,"Yet Ive Seen 318s Run some Some Pretty Decent Times Over Here & Aussie low 12s & 11s with Using the Exact Oppisite to What youve Praticed?? 360 Heads on a 318 some with 1.88 Int,& Some with 2.02s "So I dont Know"?? there was a guy Running a Really worked up 273 with the 273 Heads fitted with 1.96 intakes in a 65 Cuda for the Pre 65 Class of circut Racing & was clocked at 160+mph down the Back of Conrod Straight at Bahurst Australia Absolutly Amazing,Mind You Pretty Exotic Machine Though Roller Cam Venolia Pistons etc, You Get The Picture."I Guess at the End of the Day The Engine is Just A Pump" So If you Pump it Hard It Go Hard! Im Just Blown Away that You Ran A 318 with such Huge Compression & Still Used such Small Valves I Wonder What it wouldve Done with the 1.88 Intake Valve Fitted?? Also I never like the 360 Heads with the way the floor Drops Away I think 318s Have a Better Port Shape on the Exhuasts Just Get Rid of the Ugly Hump in the Roof LOL Woops I see Water!! Anyway Great work BJR :drinkers: :thumblef:
 
Scarecrow,
We use to do the same things that your talking about, but when we found this other info that worked better then we used it. The heads showed a 20-40 hp gain depending on the cam and compression used. We went from running low 12s with the 360 heads to running in the upper 11s with the 318 heads, then we ported the heads and changed the piston to what the forum has and the car ran in the low to mid 11s.



BJR Racing
 
"Thats Awesome BJR" I know in your chart you show theres Not much Differents in the 587s with the 2.02 int Compared to the 915s with the 1.88 int,"But You dont Show Figures with the 2.02 Valve Fitted to the 915 Heads to see Just how much more they do flow compared to the 587s,"But Im sure you have Done So with your years of Expertise."Also just What is the Biggest Valves can you Fit into a 318 Head Before you run into Trouble"I was thinking maybe 1.94 or 1.96 on the intake & 1.60 exhaust??? or would 1.88 int Do just Find as Ive Aready Ported Some 318 Heads to the Mopar Perfomance Guide Lines?? :notworth: :thumblef:
 
Scarecrow,
I have put 2.02s in the 318 heads but this doesn't leave much left in the head for reinforcement. That head flowed in the 245 range but would scare me to run on the street. The 587s and the 915 heads are very similar in design, and if you will look back that the port runner volume was with in 2 ccs or so. Also if you look back and look at the low lift flow #s that the 2.02 is considerably less than that of the 1.88 done the same way.
The problem with putting the bigger valves in the heads is the chamber shrouding and the cylinder shrouding, and that the valves may actually hit the cylinder walls at lift depending.


BJR Racing
 
"Thanks BJR for your Time & Expertise on the Subject"Ive spent countless Hours on Clylinder head Porting of Differing Types,& I Just Wished I had A flow Bench at My Disposal,LOL"It Cost me $75 to $80 a Shot to use a Flow Bench. "But with the 318 I Was Going to Go with the 360 Heads,"But Im Convinced Now to Use the 318 Heads as they are smaller Chamber Anyway & Comp Ratio wouldnt Drop as it Would with the 360 Heads! Ive Done a Dummy Head were ive fully Ported it & Raised the Roof on Both Ports trying to Copy the,W2s, LOL,Im Yet to go back to the flow Bench! But Before i do i would like to try just the 1.88 inlet to see if that Helps & Leave one Standard & Compare the Two side by side??"I agree with you on the Edelbrocks compared to the Iron W2s I know what i would Rather Have!! :thumblef:
 
hey
im not too knowledgeable about this stuff,but couldent you mill aset of 360 heads and get your compression back.
 
scampgt440, Yes this is true but you'll have to cut about .050 off just to get to the same size as the 318s stock chamber size. This will equal about 10 ccs but have the heads cced before you start milling to know for sure where your at in the heads.


BJR Racing
 
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