Dana 60 S60 or Ford 9"

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Duane said:
I've seen lots of guys break the axle caps and throw the whole centre section out the back of the sheet metal housing.
The pinion is not the problem area.
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Mark Williams says you're wrong. I don't actually care i was answering the op's question. Dana's are great im not saying that at all.
 
anitrowarrior9 said:
Mark Williams says you're wrong. I don't actually care i was answering the op's question. Dana's are great im not saying that at all.
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I was talking about a stock case.

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yellow rose said:
If you are using a 4.10 or lower (higher numerically) then the D60 is more efficient. The lower you go, the more efficient the D60 is over the 9.

Changing gears is pretty silly unless you are in Comp (maybe) or Pro Stock. I went through that gear change phase in the mid 1980’s and the only thing that happened was it changed the crossing RPM. Never made a tick of difference in ET or MPH.

So I stuck with the 5.57’s even though the math said 5.86 is what the car should have wanted.
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Great answer !
 
Not sure what all this is about.
A 9 in can be made stronger. Period.
Dana has a cool factor with Mopars.
But anybody making serious steam runs a 9 inch.
 
justinp61 said:
I don't know of a single fast car that's using a stock case. Even my S-60 isn't a stock case.
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Agree, that's why it was said that it cost way more to build the Ford.
If you want some significant strength, you have to buy an aftermarket centre section.
Not so even with a stock Dana.
I was just trying to point out that a stock ford suffers from the same weakness in the axle caps because that is inherent in a banjo style axle. Obviously the Ford has its attributes, that's why they are everywhere. But a Salibury design is inherently strong.
Then let's say you want to have say 2 ratios of gears ready to change by dropping out 1 of your 2 or 3 aftermarket centre sections and what is the cost here for that feature to build the Ford.
 
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B3422w5 said:
All the A/H cars run 9 inch
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The 9 inch can be made plenty strong given the budget.
But a Dana can handle those kind of performance numbers no problem. The Ford may have the edge from a setup and serviceability perspective, but the point of this thread was that the Dana can match or exceed that same strength level for much less money, and the serviceability edge might be less now with the threaded adjuster on the s60. Proper pinion depth is usually the most time consuming part of setting up gears. If you know in advance what that depth is, you could swap gears in a Dana very quickly because you no longer need a case spreader.
As was said earlier it is about $1,000.00 more in cost to build the Ford and that's if you only buy one aftermarket centre section.
But I can certainly see why the Ford is more popular in certain categories.
 
Duane said:
The 9 inch can be made plenty strong given the budget.
But a Dana can handle those kind of performance numbers no problem. The Ford may have the edge from a setup and serviceability perspective, but the point of this thread was that the Dana can match or exceed that same strength level for much less money, and the serviceability edge might be less now with the threaded adjuster on the s60. Proper pinion depth is usually the most time consuming part of setting up gears. If you know in advance what that depth is, you could swap gears in a Dana very quickly because you no longer need a case spreader.
As was said earlier it is about $1,000.00 more in cost to build the Ford and that's if you only buy one aftermarket centre section.
But I can certainly see why the Ford is more popular in certain categories.
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It’s gear selection and pinion height.
 
I've heard it said that because the 60 housing is difficult to brace, the wheels will begin to toe in on a big hp car.
 
forphorty said:
I've heard it said that because the 60 housing is difficult to brace, the wheels will begin to toe in on a big hp car.
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Some things to think about.
1. Toe in will make the car roll straight.
2. Having said that, there is a kit on the market to brace the Dana.
It uses bars that bolt to a differential support cover and triangulate over to the axle tubes.
3. If you look at the construction of a banjo axle, it is basically a heavy sheet metal construction. The axle tubes are welded to this sheet metal construction. Because the front centre section is removable, the front cast iron structure is never attached to the axle tubes. So you have under high load, a very flexible construction.
Back bracing the housing helps with this to stiffen the housing structure.
Now if you look at a Salisbury type housing, the axle tubes are welded directly to the heavy nodular or grey iron centre section.
That centre section is a heavy thick wall casting. The draw back to this type construction is that they are heavier. Many people will shun the Dana because it is typically 15-20 pounds heavier than an equally build 9 inch. But this extra meat, or weight and the type of construction are precisely what makes these type axles inherently stiffer and stronger. The Salisbury design also integrates the axle caps into the axle tube structure, which also stiffens the caps. Read that as better gear life.
 
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Duane said:
I saw that last week, was it a driveshaft failure?
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I had a driveshaft fail right in the middle. I was lucky I didn’t crash the car because of it. Tore a bunch of **** up...broke my block, bent the main shaft in the gear box and broke the tail housing, cut a slick, ripped some sheet metal all to hell.

All because the low IQ dickhead at Driveline Service in Portland Oregon didn’t listen to a WORD I said.

I was going to beat him half to death with the back piece of the DL but I couldn’t catch that little *****.
 
Duane said:
Some things to think about.
1. Toe in will make the car roll straight.
2. Having said that, there is a kit on the market to brace the Dana.
It uses bars that bolt to a differential support cover and triangulate over to the axle tubes.
3. If you look at the construction of a banjo axle, it is basically a heavy sheet metal construction. The axle tubes are welded to this sheet metal construction. Because the front centre section is removable, the front cast iron structure is never attached to the axle tubes. So you have under high load, a very flexible construction.
Back bracing the housing helps with this to stiffen the housing structure.
Now if you look at a Salisbury type housing, the axle tubes are welded directly to the heavy nodular or grey iron centre section.
That centre section is a heavy thick walked casting. The draw back to this type construction is that they are heavier. Many people will shun the Dana because it is typically 15-20 pounds heavier than an equally build 9 inch. But this extra meat, or weight and the type of construction are precisely what makes these type axles inherently stiffer and stronger. The Salisbury design also integrates the axle caps into the axle tube structure, which also stiffens the caps. Read that as better gear life.
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Dana's are great rear ends, but if there was any ET to be found with a Dana you can bet the heads up guys would be running them. Strength of the 9" is not a issue regardless of it's design flaws, apparently gear life is not a issue.
 
justinp61 said:
Dana's are great rear ends, but if there was any ET to be found with a Dana you can bet the heads up guys would be running them. Strength of the 9" is not a issue regardless of it's design flaws, apparently gear life is not a issue.
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Let's get back to the original question get the data and don't look back you're not heads up racing you're not pro stock racing you're not doing the crazy **** all these people are doing get the data and don't look back
 
justinp61 said:
Dana's are great rear ends, but if there was any ET to be found with a Dana you can bet the heads up guys would be running them. Strength of the 9" is not a issue regardless of it's design flaws, apparently gear life is not a issue.
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Strength is not an issue with the 9 inch because all its flaws have been addressed with an aftermarket centre section and beefing up the case. $$$$ . Even a junkyard Dana will hold anything the average bracket car will throw at it. Even 8 second cars. Most guys will never swap ratios at the track. The s60 or a junkyard 60 is the cheapest way to a near bulletproof rear axle. Most bracket cars tax the rear axle at the trans brake hit. I have seen an 8 second dart using an 8 3/4 without failure because turbo cars don't launch very hard. I have also seen 11:50 cars (gas motor) with a Dana, that launch with the wheels 3 ft in the air. No one said either rear axle would et better.
If you have unlimited funds, and really might change centre sections at the track, go aftermarket 9 inch, buy 2-3 aftermarket centre sections and have at it. Or buy a new s60 and another ring and pinion and easily change gears. Ask yourself why you can now put Chevy 12 bolt gears in a 9 inch housing if there is no et to be had.
 
Just remember as racers we can break almost anything. I had a 1991 Dodge Daytona (2500 pounds) that I bought and put 100’s maybe a 1000 8 second passes. Those 4.30 gears were used when I bought the car and he was running 8.20’s with an Indy stroker. At that time I was only running 8.60’s@155mph. 1.21 best sixty foot time. Well I lit my two stage lights and when I broke the My Ford 9 inch I looked up and both stage lights were still on. Lol. Man I cleaned those teeth off clean. I should mention that car had 16-32 slicks on it
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dartcuda1 said:
Let's get back to the original question get the data and don't look back you're not heads up racing you're not pro stock racing you're not doing the crazy **** all these people are doing get the data and don't look back
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The OP stated he is building a SS/AH type car, maybe he's going to bracket race it? SS/AH is heads up BTW.

Duane said:
Strength is not an issue with the 9 inch because all its flaws have been addressed with an aftermarket centre section and beefing up the case. $$$$ . Even a junkyard Dana will hold anything the average bracket car will throw at it. Even 8 second cars. Most guys will never swap ratios at the track. The s60 or a junkyard 60 is the cheapest way to a near bulletproof rear axle. Most bracket cars tax the rear axle at the trans brake hit. I have seen an 8 second dart using an 8 3/4 without failure because turbo cars don't launch very hard. I have also seen 11:50 cars (gas motor) with a Dana, that launch with the wheels 3 ft in the air. No one said either rear axle would et better.
If you have unlimited funds, and really might change centre sections at the track, go aftermarket 9 inch, buy 2-3 aftermarket centre sections and have at it. Or buy a new s60 and another ring and pinion and easily change gears. Ask yourself why you can now put Chevy 12 bolt gears in a 9 inch housing if there is no et to be had.
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I don't know why a stock 9" would even be considered for a fast car and I seriously doubt the OP was considering using one. Also the OP didn't ask about a drop out 12 bolt, but yes I'm fully aware of them and why they exist. My buddy runs a mid 4 second turbo LS in a Mustang heads up car and I've never known of him changing gears at the track and yes it's a 9".

As I stated a Dana is a great rear end and far stronger than most guys will ever need, me included. I broke a 8 3/4 running mid sixes in the 1/8 and had Strange build me a S-60. Pretty much get and forget it. I run some heads up street stuff and do pretty well in naturally asperated classes. Having said that I'm considering building my 65 Dart just for the class and if I do it'll have a 9" under it. Used center sections can be picked up at reasonable prices.

In the end use what you want, I will.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Just remember as racers we can break almost anything. I had a 1991 Dodge Daytona (2500 pounds) that I bought and put 100’s maybe a 1000 8 second passes. Those 4.30 gears were used when I bought the car and he was running 8.20’s with an Indy stroker. At that time I was only running 8.60’s@155mph. 1.21 best sixty foot time. Well I lit my two stage lights and when I broke the My Ford 9 inch I looked up and both stage lights were still on. Lol. Man I cleaned those teeth off clean. I should mention that car had 16-32 slicks on it View attachment 1715662693
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Too bad you lost that car. I agree anything can break.
Here is a pic right off Mark Williams website. They too sell the threaded adjuster Dana 60. There are more than plenty of good reasons to build a Ford, but Mark Williams own website supports what I am saying. Also there weight comparison is misleading.
They acknowledge that the Dana was the only oem axle to use 35 spline axles. But 35 spline axles are heavy. I have read other articles that say factoring in axle and brake weight, the difference
Equal to equal is 15-20 pounds.
A good friend of mine has a 500 inch Daytona that runs 8:60,s
He uses the Dana with a pro stock tire. Two summers ago after 2000 passes, it broke a strange 35 spline axle. The ring and pinion
and spool looked like new. Just sayin. I am switching to the s60 in my dart from an 8 3/4 that already had strange 35 spline axles.
My reasons are cost and strength. Plus my strange axles will go right into a Dana without modification, saving me from purchasing
New ones.

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I have been doing some re-evaluating of my chassis build, I probably won't go to the extreme of building an actual SS/AH chassis due to 2 reasons, 1: its extremely expensive to build that chassis, 2: I wont ever run that class so I think its over kill to build the car to those specs.

I'd like to race Nostalgia Super Stock, which across the board the biggest tire I can run I believe is either 31x10.5, or 33x10.5. I have read and seen a lot of guys turn mid 8s on a 10.5w tire. From what I understand, building a NSS back half is not quite as involved as an AH car and I believe will be more suitable for me. I still want to 4-link, anti-roll, wishbone etc in the car, it just wont be as extreme as AH. So I reckon I will be doing a lot more foot braking versus using a transbrake, I would only use a transbrake when I race on off weekends at a local track.

With that in mind, I believe a S60 Dana 60 would still be a great rear end for what I am doing, it would be more "correct" for a Mopar. Ill be running an automatic transmission, that'll be easier on a rear end than a 4 speed for sure. I'd like to run a 4 speed jerico or liberty, but apparently the clutch maintenance and rear end maintenance damn near triples from if I ran just an automatic.
 
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